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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 17th 06, 01:59 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?



"Upscale" wrote in message


[snip]

Your unspoken insinuation that any owner is selfish for
owning a cat where it isn't allowed to go out is
short-sighted and very obviously misguided.


No it's not. Cats are outdoor animals. You are the selfish one for keeping
them prisoner.

Ivor


  #12  
Old June 17th 06, 02:02 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


"Professor" wrote in message
news:QaCkg.78$RU4.73@trnddc03

[snip]

I encourage you to go to a cat show and tell the breeders
they are cruel to keep indoors their cats worth thousands
of dollars. You're likely to get your ass kicked. BTW I
adopted a cat from a shelter in my youth and I kept him
indoors his whole life. When you do find one of your
cats run over don't come crying to us.


That's another cruelty, breeding cats purely for show. There are thousands
upon thousands of unwanted cats in shelters worldwide, people should adopt
one of those and not breed yet more.

BTW I don't have an ass, horse or any other equine animal, what's that got
to do with it..? Even if I did why would anybody want to kick it..?

Ivor


  #13  
Old June 17th 06, 02:08 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?



"~*Connie*~" wrote in message

Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping
them indoors permanently is cruel. The area around here
is relatively safe, we live in a road with little
traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end) and all
our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly
fine.


Cats are "naturally" outdoor creatures, sure, I'll give
you that. But so were humans. Why aren't you living
outside and why are you wearing clothes???


Because I live in the UK and it's bloody freezing..!

Cats are naturally desert creatures.. so why are you
keeping them in your residential area?


Hmm, that's a new one, source of information, please..? I don't doubt you,
but I've never heard that one before.

Cats are naturally strict carnivores.. so why are you
feeding them food loaded down with carbohydrates?


How do you know what I'm feeding them..?

Look.. Cats adapt perfectly fine to living strictly
indoors. I have six cats, and they are VERY happy. Occasionally a door
is left open, and most of the time
they don't even go outside, and if they do it is simply
to satisfy their curiosity, not to 'escape' into their
"natural" world.. If I were being "permanently cruel" to
them, I wouldn't have the close loving relationship that
I have with them - which I am sure is a heck of a lot
closer than you have with yours who are often gone.


You do not know me, my cats or the relationship I have with them, do not
presume. I love my cats far more than any human, I promise you.

And just because YOU have had extremely good luck keeping
cats that go outside, does NOT mean that every cat should
go outside. A cat that lives an indoor/outdoor existence
has a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years.. as opposed to the
16-20 for the indoor cat. (and don't tout that your cats
lived long lives.. this is the life expectancy, not a
absolute. Some cats go out and die the next day)


Source of your figures, please..? Are you speaking for the UK or are you
one of those people who think the world ceases at US borders..? I know
people in city centres who have had outdoor cats for long periods, a
friend's cat recently died (of natural causes) at age 19, she had been an
outdoor cat her whole life, on a *very* busy road.

Ivor


  #14  
Old June 17th 06, 08:27 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


"Professor" wrote in message
news:QaCkg.78$RU4.73@trnddc03

"Ivor Jones" wrote in message
...

"Professor" wrote in message
news:J3ykg.11$d9.8@trndny04


Young cats extremely rarely die suddenly of natural
causes. An autopsy would have determined just why, but
you were probably too cheap to pay for one. Letting your
cats out to be run over in city traffic isn't cruel, but
keeping cats inside their whole lives where they are safe
is cruel? Fortunately uninformed older people that think
like you are dying off.


You didn't read what I wrote. Did I say my cat who died outside
was young..? In actual fact he was 18+ at the time and used to
roam for quite a distance. Incidentally, I probably spend more money
at the vet in a month than you do in a year, so don't presume.
Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping them indoors
permanently is cruel. The area around here is relatively safe, we live
in a road with little traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end)
and all our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly fine.
Incidentally, are you in the USA..? It seems to be the US that is
becoming so fanatical about keeping cats indoors, all I can say is if
you live where you don't think it is ok to let cats out then don't have
them. If you genuinely love cats and want to do something positive
for them, go and volunteer at a rescue shelter as I do.
Ivor


I encourage you to go to a cat show and tell the breeders they
are cruel to keep indoors their cats worth thousands of dollars.

They *are* cruel. These people who breed cats for show hate animals, and
lead lives totally devoted to profit and transient, meaningless
peer-pressure. They should all be locked up in mental institutions and
lobotomized.

You're likely to get your ass kicked.

There's nothing they hate more than being told they're profiteers and animal
haters. However, they're unlikely to kick anyone's ass, as most of them are
so fat they can't lift their legs high enough.

BTW I adopted a cat from a shelter in my
youth and I kept him indoors his whole life.

That is DISGUSTING. You should be ashamed of yourself. In fact, I've a good
mind to report you to a variety of animal-cruelty and Police authorities,
you utter creep. Hang your head in shame, for keeping an animal indoors "his
whole life". Appalling.




























  #15  
Old June 17th 06, 08:49 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


"~*Connie*~" justified itself in message


Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping them indoors
permanently is cruel. The area around here is relatively safe, we live
in a road with little traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end)
and all our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly fine.


Cats are "naturally" outdoor creatures, sure, I'll give you that.
But so were humans. Why aren't you living outside and why
are you wearing clothes???

What a ridiculous, whining retort! You could then argue that humans are
inherently vicious hunters, and should hunt, kill, and eat cats, because
it's the "natural way". Don't be stupid, you useless, cruel cow.

Cats are naturally desert creatures.. so why are you keeping
them in your residential area?

If they're "naturally desert creatures", then why are you keeping them
locked-up in your house, you disgusting ****? You should be stopped - by
force, if necessary - from keeping cats.

Cats are naturally strict carnivores.. so why are you feeding
them food loaded down with carbohydrates?

And YOU don't?! Don't be a hypocrite, ****head!

Look.. Cats adapt perfectly fine to living strictly indoors.

No they're not. They're screaming, inside. Stop trying to justify your
laziness and cruelty.

I have six cats, and they are VERY happy.

They're NOT happy. They're miserable, being kept prisoner in such miserable
circumstances. You need your head examined, you cruel *******.

Occasionally a door is left open, and most
of the time they don't even go outside,

That's because they're terrified. A state of mind which YOU have created. Be
ashamed, bitch.

and if they do it is simply to satisfy their
curiosity, not to 'escape' into their "natural" world..

Poor things. How they must hate you.

If I were being "permanently cruel" to them, I wouldn't have the close
loving relationship that I have with them - which I am sure is a heck
of a lot closer than you have with yours who are often gone.

You wish. Admit it. You're a nasty, horrible person. And cruel.

And just because YOU have had extremely good luck keeping cats
that go outside, does NOT mean that every cat should go outside.
A cat that lives an indoor/outdoor existence has a life expectancy of
3 to 5 years.. as opposed to the 16-20 for the indoor cat. (and don't
tout that your cats lived long lives.. this is the life expectancy, not a
absolute. Some cats go out and die the next day)

While YOUR cats are dying inside, and they take years to do it. Disgusting.

as to the OP, I'd recommend switching to a strictly indoor situation as
well, but once cats have expanded their territory to include the outside,
SOME cats have a very hard time adapting to the smaller territory. In
that case, you have to weigh a possibly shorter life span vs quality of

life.

Jesus. What a terrible thing to say. In fact, it makes you sound insane. And
sexually frustrated.

There is no devise that Im aware of (and I did research for my own cats -
I need to give one of mine access to a room that no one else can get
into) and the keyed door is the only option, and they only go one way.
What you could do is build a tunnel. Put one keyed door on one side,
and another on the other - facing the other way.

It's people like you that staff concentration camps. I'm reporting you to
all the animal welfare groups I can find.



































  #16  
Old June 18th 06, 03:30 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


Ivor Jones wrote:
"Upscale" wrote in message


[snip]

Your unspoken insinuation that any owner is selfish for
owning a cat where it isn't allowed to go out is
short-sighted and very obviously misguided.


No it's not. Cats are outdoor animals. You are the selfish one for keeping
them prisoner.

Ivor


No, Ivor, I do not agree.

We adopted 3 cats (2 were facing euthanasia). We keep 2 inside, and
they are very happy--are not interested in going into the great
outdoors.

Anyone who can give a cat a good, loving home, whether indoor or
outdoor, is ok in my book.

Stop being so judgemental.

  #17  
Old June 18th 06, 04:22 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?

Keep this in mind:

Outdoor cats have an average life expectancy of 4 years
Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years

Having said that: Why not make your current indoor/outdoor cat an indoor cat
only and get rid of the cat door completely? I don't think there's currently
a door on the market that has "selective animal exiting".


  #18  
Old June 18th 06, 09:06 AM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


David Chang wrote:
Keep this in mind:

Outdoor cats have an average life expectancy of 4 years
Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years

Having said that: Why not make your current indoor/outdoor cat an indoor cat
only and get rid of the cat door completely? I don't think there's currently
a door on the market that has "selective animal exiting".


While I think, for practical reasons, it is safer and easier to keep a
cat indoors, there is a valid argument that from a cat's point of view,
this is not a great situation. (FWIW, my cat is an indoor cat. She isnt
street smart.)

To persuade an indoor/outdoor cat to stay in is hard on the cat.

If a cat never knew different, then of course a cat can be happy
indoors. Our cat is thoroughly contented as long as there's company.

But cats I had years ago who were indoor/outdoor lived very different
lives and I personally think of higher quality. They would not have
chosen to stay indoors all the time.

Its like a person who spends their whole life in one village. Someone
who has wandered around the world might consider it limiting, but there
are millions of perfectly happy people who do it.

DB

  #19  
Old June 18th 06, 04:06 PM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


"tsr3" wrote in message
ups.com

[snip]

No, Ivor, I do not agree.


It's your right to disagree. It's my right to say you're wrong.

We adopted 3 cats (2 were facing euthanasia). We keep 2
inside, and they are very happy--are not interested in
going into the great outdoors.

Anyone who can give a cat a good, loving home, whether
indoor or outdoor, is ok in my book.

Stop being so judgemental.


Better an indoor home than none at all, I agree, but it is still
fundamentally wrong in my book and I've had cats for 30+ years and worked
at a rescue shelter for 4 so I think I know a little about cats and what's
best for them.

Not everyone lives in the backwoods of the USA where predators are lurking
around every corner.

Ivor


  #20  
Old June 18th 06, 06:38 PM posted to alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.misc,alt.cats,alt.animals.cat
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Default Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?


Ivor Jones wrote:
Why not just let the new cats out..? It's cruel to restrict cats to an
indoor life IMHO, except for exceptional situations such as if the cat is
FIV+.


Hey, thanks, Ivor, for completely derailling the thread, so instead of
answering my question about a cat door, you moved it into a flamefest
regarding indoor v. outdoor cats -- which is best?

And did the rest of you HAVE to take the bait and keep it going? Aren't
there like a bazillion discussions on that topic? And does anyone's
mind get changed? NO !!

Okay back to my original request:

Does anyone know of a door that (perhaps with different key/collars)
can be set up so that the cat with the collar can go in/out but the
kittens are barred from exiting.

Or any other kind of strategy? Please don't suggest making the outdoor
cat an indoor one -- that's just not an option.


Erik, I appreciated that you were the only to stay on topic, but I
already have the kind of door you suggested. I need something a little
more sophisticated.

Any flaming of me will be ignored -- honestly, I am just looking for
some answers, not to get pulled into any kind of debate.

Thanks

 




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