Cat food - which have the lowest phosphorus? Paging PhilP

PhilP, are you out there? I know you know a lot about feline nutrition,
and really could use your input.

In reading and talking about Dmitri's CRF, I'm seeing the controversy
over whether or not low protein diet is the way to go. But the one
thing is clear...the lowest amount of phosphorus seems to be crucial.

Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

Otherwise, which are the cat foods out there with the lowest amount of
phosphorus.

Right now, he's eating the Hill's KD chicken flavor canned, and he does
like the dry KD. (Though I don't usually feed them dry food other than
having some on hand for emergencies, such as getting snowed in)

I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now I'm
worried it might be a symptom. Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

TIA,

Juls

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"Juls" wrote in message
...
Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm

They are linked to from my site too.

I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now I'm
worried it might be a symptom. Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

I wouldn't, no. Not every CRF cat has low potassium. I'd only supplement if
potassium is 4 or below. It could well be the arthritis, although there are
several possible other causes of weak back legs in CRF cats:

http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms_tr...ts_index.htm#W

HTH

Helen

Thank you so much Helen. Your site has been an absolute godsend to me!!!

In article , "Helen"
wrote:

"Juls" wrote in message
...
Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm

They are linked to from my site too.

I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now I'm
worried it might be a symptom. Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

I wouldn't, no. Not every CRF cat has low potassium. I'd only supplement if
potassium is 4 or below. It could well be the arthritis, although there are
several possible other causes of weak back legs in CRF cats:

http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms_tr...ts_index.htm#W

HTH

Helen

--
To email (remove annoying hyphens)

j-u-l-i
at
e-c-t-dot-o-r-g

"Juls" wrote in message
...
PhilP, are you out there? I know you know a lot about feline nutrition,
and really could use your input.

In reading and talking about Dmitri's CRF, I'm seeing the controversy
over whether or not low protein diet is the way to go. But the one
thing is clear...the lowest amount of phosphorus seems to be crucial.

Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

Otherwise, which are the cat foods out there with the lowest amount of
phosphorus.

Right now, he's eating the Hill's KD chicken flavor canned, and he does
like the dry KD. (Though I don't usually feed them dry food other than
having some on hand for emergencies, such as getting snowed in)


I think k/d is too low in protein for all but mid to end-stage CRF cats. I
wouldn't restrict protein until the BUN reached 60-70 mg/dl. Protein
restriction can exacerbate or cause anemia by reducing hemoglobin
production. It can also impair immunological responses and reduce the cat's
resistance to infection, and also cause muscle wasting. I've seen dramatic
turnarounds in our CRF cats after switching them to x/d. Even though x/d
has more protein than k/d, their BUN *decreased*! X/d is very similar to
k/d except for protein, and the phosphorus is a little higher- but still
acceptable. Like k/d, x/d also is not acidified- which is very important
for CRF cats.

Petguard Turkey & Rice, Rabbit, and Venison are also very low in phosphorus-
even lower than k/d according to Petguard's analysis. Wysong Chicken
Gourmet is also low in phosphorus and would be my 3rd choice after x/d and
Petguard.



I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now I'm
worried it might be a symptom.

I *definitely* recommend a potassium supplement. Many CRF cats that have
normal serum potassium levels have *decreased* muscle potassium and total
body potassium stores. A total body deficit of potassium can develop well
*before* the onset of hypokalemia. So: even though your cat has normal
serum potassium levels he can still have deficit in his total-body potassium
stores. You would want to keep his serum potassium levels in the *upper
half* of the normal range to prevent hypokalemia and further renal damage
during intracellular redistribution.

The usual beginning dose of potassium is about 2-4 mEq/day/cat divided into
2 or 3 doses. In my experience most CRF cats need between 1 and 4 mgEq/day
to keep the serum potassium levels in the upper half of the normal range.
You can adjust the dose based on serum potassium levels.

Remember, CRF cats drink a lot and form more urine rapidly and urinate more
frequently. Rapid urine formation *promotes* potassium excretion.
Therefore, potassium supplementation is *crucial* for CRF cats. I've read
studies and also seen for myself renal function *improve* in CRF cats after
potassium supplementation.



Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

Rear leg weakness can certainly be caused by low muscle potassium even
though serum potassium levels are in the normal range. Remember, less than
5% of the total body stores of potassium are contained in the blood- the
rest, about 95-98% is contained in the tissues. So: serum potassium levels
is not an accurate assessment of total body potassium stores.

Best of luck,

Phil

Thank you, Phil. This is fantastic info and so helpful.

One question: who makes the x/d? Okay, two questions...do you recommend
a particular brand of potassium?

In article , "Phil P."
wrote:

"Juls" wrote in message
...
PhilP, are you out there? I know you know a lot about feline nutrition,
and really could use your input.

In reading and talking about Dmitri's CRF, I'm seeing the controversy
over whether or not low protein diet is the way to go. But the one
thing is clear...the lowest amount of phosphorus seems to be crucial.

Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

Otherwise, which are the cat foods out there with the lowest amount of
phosphorus.

Right now, he's eating the Hill's KD chicken flavor canned, and he does
like the dry KD. (Though I don't usually feed them dry food other than
having some on hand for emergencies, such as getting snowed in)


I think k/d is too low in protein for all but mid to end-stage CRF cats. I
wouldn't restrict protein until the BUN reached 60-70 mg/dl. Protein
restriction can exacerbate or cause anemia by reducing hemoglobin
production. It can also impair immunological responses and reduce the cat's
resistance to infection, and also cause muscle wasting. I've seen dramatic
turnarounds in our CRF cats after switching them to x/d. Even though x/d
has more protein than k/d, their BUN *decreased*! X/d is very similar to
k/d except for protein, and the phosphorus is a little higher- but still
acceptable. Like k/d, x/d also is not acidified- which is very important
for CRF cats.

Petguard Turkey & Rice, Rabbit, and Venison are also very low in phosphorus-
even lower than k/d according to Petguard's analysis. Wysong Chicken
Gourmet is also low in phosphorus and would be my 3rd choice after x/d and
Petguard.



I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now I'm
worried it might be a symptom.

I *definitely* recommend a potassium supplement. Many CRF cats that have
normal serum potassium levels have *decreased* muscle potassium and total
body potassium stores. A total body deficit of potassium can develop well
*before* the onset of hypokalemia. So: even though your cat has normal
serum potassium levels he can still have deficit in his total-body potassium
stores. You would want to keep his serum potassium levels in the *upper
half* of the normal range to prevent hypokalemia and further renal damage
during intracellular redistribution.

The usual beginning dose of potassium is about 2-4 mEq/day/cat divided into
2 or 3 doses. In my experience most CRF cats need between 1 and 4 mgEq/day
to keep the serum potassium levels in the upper half of the normal range.
You can adjust the dose based on serum potassium levels.

Remember, CRF cats drink a lot and form more urine rapidly and urinate more
frequently. Rapid urine formation *promotes* potassium excretion.
Therefore, potassium supplementation is *crucial* for CRF cats. I've read
studies and also seen for myself renal function *improve* in CRF cats after
potassium supplementation.



Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

Rear leg weakness can certainly be caused by low muscle potassium even
though serum potassium levels are in the normal range. Remember, less than
5% of the total body stores of potassium are contained in the blood- the
rest, about 95-98% is contained in the tissues. So: serum potassium levels
is not an accurate assessment of total body potassium stores.

Best of luck,

Phil

--
To email (remove annoying hyphens)

j-u-l-i
at
e-c-t-dot-o-r-g

"Juls" wrote in message
...
Thank you, Phil. This is fantastic info and so helpful.

One question: who makes the x/d?


x/d is a Hill's prescription diet intended for the prevention of calcium
oxalate. Hill's g/d is another good alternative to k/d.



Okay, two questions...do you recommend
a particular brand of potassium?


I use Tumil-K powder mixed in the food. 1/4 teaspoon contains 2 mEq
potassium gluconate. Don't start potassium therapy without consulting your
vet. Serum potassium levels must be monitored to avoid hyperkalemia. If
your cat is urinating normally or more than normal he probably won't develop
hyperkalemia- I've never seen hyperkalemia in a CRF cat that was polyuric.
Nevertheless, his serum potassium levels should be monitored to make sure
they stay in the upper half of the normal range.

If your cat is receiving SC fluids, the doses will have to be adjusted-
probably upwards.

Best of luck.

Phil




In article , "Phil P."
wrote:

"Juls" wrote in message
...
PhilP, are you out there? I know you know a lot about feline
nutrition,
and really could use your input.

In reading and talking about Dmitri's CRF, I'm seeing the controversy
over whether or not low protein diet is the way to go. But the one
thing is clear...the lowest amount of phosphorus seems to be crucial.

Isn't there a listing somewhere of the phosphorus levels in commercial
cat foods? If so, does anyone have that link.

Otherwise, which are the cat foods out there with the lowest amount of
phosphorus.

Right now, he's eating the Hill's KD chicken flavor canned, and he
does
like the dry KD. (Though I don't usually feed them dry food other than
having some on hand for emergencies, such as getting snowed in)


I think k/d is too low in protein for all but mid to end-stage CRF cats.
I
wouldn't restrict protein until the BUN reached 60-70 mg/dl. Protein
restriction can exacerbate or cause anemia by reducing hemoglobin
production. It can also impair immunological responses and reduce the
cat's
resistance to infection, and also cause muscle wasting. I've seen
dramatic
turnarounds in our CRF cats after switching them to x/d. Even though
x/d
has more protein than k/d, their BUN *decreased*! X/d is very similar
to
k/d except for protein, and the phosphorus is a little higher- but still
acceptable. Like k/d, x/d also is not acidified- which is very
important
for CRF cats.

Petguard Turkey & Rice, Rabbit, and Venison are also very low in
phosphorus-
even lower than k/d according to Petguard's analysis. Wysong Chicken
Gourmet is also low in phosphorus and would be my 3rd choice after x/d
and
Petguard.



I'm also wondering if I should get some liquid potassium supplements?
His vet said his potassium was okay (only the BUN and creatine numbers
were elevated, and I'm working on getting a urine sample to them). But
over the last year, twice it seemed his back legs gave out. I
attributed that to his ongoing arthritis and overall aging, but now
I'm
worried it might be a symptom.

I *definitely* recommend a potassium supplement. Many CRF cats that
have
normal serum potassium levels have *decreased* muscle potassium and
total
body potassium stores. A total body deficit of potassium can develop
well
*before* the onset of hypokalemia. So: even though your cat has normal
serum potassium levels he can still have deficit in his total-body
potassium
stores. You would want to keep his serum potassium levels in the *upper
half* of the normal range to prevent hypokalemia and further renal
damage
during intracellular redistribution.

The usual beginning dose of potassium is about 2-4 mEq/day/cat divided
into
2 or 3 doses. In my experience most CRF cats need between 1 and 4
mgEq/day
to keep the serum potassium levels in the upper half of the normal
range.
You can adjust the dose based on serum potassium levels.

Remember, CRF cats drink a lot and form more urine rapidly and urinate
more
frequently. Rapid urine formation *promotes* potassium excretion.
Therefore, potassium supplementation is *crucial* for CRF cats. I've
read
studies and also seen for myself renal function *improve* in CRF cats
after
potassium supplementation.



Both times were when he jumped off the
bed. I'm in the process of making him some handicap steps because he
really likes curling up on the bed with Jack.

Rear leg weakness can certainly be caused by low muscle potassium even
though serum potassium levels are in the normal range. Remember, less
than
5% of the total body stores of potassium are contained in the blood- the
rest, about 95-98% is contained in the tissues. So: serum potassium
levels
is not an accurate assessment of total body potassium stores.

Best of luck,

Phil

--
To email (remove annoying hyphens)

j-u-l-i
at
e-c-t-dot-o-r-g

Phil P. wrote:
Petguard Turkey & Rice, Rabbit, and Venison are also very low in phosphorus-
even lower than k/d according to Petguard's analysis. Wysong Chicken
Gourmet is also low in phosphorus and would be my 3rd choice after x/d and
Petguard.

To the OP, if you have a Whole Foods Market in your area, they carry
the Petguard brand.

Lauren

See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe

"Juls" wrote in message
...
Thank you, Phil. This is fantastic info and so helpful.

One question: who makes the x/d? Okay, two questions...do you recommend
a particular brand of potassium?

What is his current potassium level exactly?

Helen

PawsForThought wrote:

: To the OP, if you have a Whole Foods Market in your area, they carry
: the Petguard brand.

How are Whole Foods' prices compared to Petsmart etc? Any expereince
with Trader Joe's house brand cat food? Thanks.

In article , "Helen"
wrote:

"Juls" wrote in message
...
Thank you, Phil. This is fantastic info and so helpful.

One question: who makes the x/d? Okay, two questions...do you recommend
a particular brand of potassium?

What is his current potassium level exactly?

Helen

I don't know. I did specifically ask about it, because I'd remembered
something about potassium. She just said it was in the normal range. I
have to get a urine sample and take it back, so I'm going to ask for a
copy of his results. And I won't start him on anything until I discuss
with his vet.

He's starting to revolt on the KD already, so I'm going to have to find
alternatives.

--
To email (remove annoying hyphens)

j-u-l-i
at
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