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First, I'm so sorry about your cat.
Like others have said, cats are masters at hiding mild pain although less so with really severe pain. It varies from cat to cat but most hide, don't want to be touched, they assume a hunched over posture and, interestingly, their eyes become very dilated. If you're not sure, take a good look at their eyes. My cat's get hugely dilated when in pain. I've been giving my cat pain meds for cancer. A low dose can be effective and not make the cat all groggy. Certainly my kitty knows when his meds are due and starts giving me this look like "come on, where is it?" You can ask in alt.support.chronic-pain if you want to talk to humans with chronic pain who can confirm that proper pain control, even with narcotics, does not equal all spaced out and groggy. You might also want to go to sci.med and sci.med.diseases.cancer and talk to human bladder cancer patients for ideas. At least ask them if they have pain and what it's like. Being both a nurse and a chronic pain patient I know a little bit about good pain control. I've also been mom to two very sick old cats, one of whom got good pain control and one of whom didn't cause back then I didn't know sh** and the vet didn't enlighten me. The trick with pain meds is to first get the pain under control with a few larger initial doses and then give smaller but REGULAR doses. This is now the standard pain control protocol for all pain in humans. "As needed" orders no longer exist except from stupid docs who don't bother to read journals or learn anything outside of medical school. The same thing applies to cats! Try to get long acting pain meds. This means the cat does not have to endure taking pills as often. (I've been using Torbutrol but it only is effective for 3 hours in the book- or about 5 hours it looks like with this particular cat. My vet and I are about to have a discussion about this.) Use a higher dose the first time you give it then low doses until you determine the minimum needed to keep the cat pain free but not groggy. The gold standard these days is the fentanyl patch, which delivers a continuous dose of a non-groggy but effective pain med for about 48 hours. But TRY getting a cat to not pull off a patch....you can put it on their head and put one of those big collars but it's a real drag. For that reason, most vets reserve it for hospitalized cats, like post-surgical pain. Also, if you're really prejudiced against narcotics, cats can tolerate certain non-narcotic pain meds like non-steroidal anti-inflammatories that dogs can't. But opiate narcotics are far more effective when the underlying cause isn't something like arthritis and opiates are the drug of choice for cancer pain. They are actually among the safest pain control drugs that exist, have been used for thousands of years and have relatively few side effects when used properly under medical supervision. One other thing I've learned: don't pet your cat and get him all relaxed before pills or IVs. My old cat (smarter than the dickens) decided not to trust us when we petted her ever again. Just do it and save petting and treats for after. Hope this helps. On 1 Jul 2004 20:15:22 -0700, (Nightstar) wrote: Is there any way to know if a cat is in pain? Are there any "typical" signs? Besides CRF, my beloved Pop has bladder cancer. He behaves like his normal self except for urinating very often and, recently, leaking urine while asleep. He is on Piroxicam, Zeniquin, and Transfer Factor, a new supplement I am trying. And sub- q fluids daily. The vet suggested I give him Buprenex daily for pain. So, I am wondering how do I know he is in pain. I definitely do not want Pop to suffer, but I don't want a semi-comatose kitty every day IF IT ISN'T NECESSARY. He has a good appetite, is affectionate, goes outside on the patio, acts playful... he's just an awesome cat! Thanks for any advice, Pop's mom __________________________________________________ _ Camilla Cracchiolo Registered Nurse Los Angeles, California webpage temporarily down |
#12
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"Luvskats00" wrote in message ... (Nightstar) writes Is there any way to know if a cat is in pain? Are there any "typical" signs? Besides CRF, my beloved Pop has bladder cancer. He behaves like his normal self except for urinating very often and, recently, leaking urine while asleep. I'm sorry to hear about Pop's medical problems and wish him the best! Sometimes it's difficult to know if a cat is in pain. They don't often show it. They can even purr while they are in pain! One sign is that they don't eat or eat as much. Another sign might be a moderate or severe change in behavior, change in litter box habits is another. Hope others can add to the list. I can tell how much pain TIgger is in by how much the hair along her spine is standing up. It's not a standing up like when they are having a hissy fit, it's more a disheveled standing up. W |
#13
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"Luvskats00" wrote in message ... (Nightstar) writes Is there any way to know if a cat is in pain? Are there any "typical" signs? Besides CRF, my beloved Pop has bladder cancer. He behaves like his normal self except for urinating very often and, recently, leaking urine while asleep. I'm sorry to hear about Pop's medical problems and wish him the best! Sometimes it's difficult to know if a cat is in pain. They don't often show it. They can even purr while they are in pain! One sign is that they don't eat or eat as much. Another sign might be a moderate or severe change in behavior, change in litter box habits is another. Hope others can add to the list. I can tell how much pain TIgger is in by how much the hair along her spine is standing up. It's not a standing up like when they are having a hissy fit, it's more a disheveled standing up. W |
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#15
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#16
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How's your cat doing? Please keep us all informed.
I posted something in error a little earlier: I said Torbutrol was only effective for 3 hours. That's in dogs. NOT true in cats. In cats it's good for at least 6-8 hours, sometimes 12. Depends on the cat. Also, I consulted an oncology vet for my Victor, with oral cancer. The vet said NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatories) are good in cancer control because a lot of the pain, at least Vic's cancer, is from inflammation at the tumor margins where the cancer is eating away the tissue. He mentioned Piroxicam as a good heavy duty aspirin-like NSAID. Your cat's already on it, so it sounds to me like you have a good vet. My old vet never even mentioned this stuff to me. I did find that when the vet added a daily aspirin to Vic's Torbutrol that I was able to lower the Torbutrol dosage. Both seem to work really well together. Also, we discussed the possibility of palliative radiation, which is different from 'definitive' radiation where you are trying to cure the cancer. The radiation is just for pain and works by killing certain kinds of cells that respond to inflammation and which release hormones that increase pain. Now I don't know if this would be at all appropriate for your kitty, since every type of cancer really should be regarded as a whole different disease (in other words, there is no such thing as one disease called "cancer".) But you could ask. It's not cheap, though and means trips to not just the vet, but the big people's hospital (my vet uses UCLA Medical Center, to give you an idea.) It also can have bad side effects, like burns and immune suppression, even though the dosage is much lower than for regular radiation 'curative' treatment. It's only like 3 or 4 treatments though, and sometimes even just one will do the trick for a long time. On 1 Jul 2004 20:15:22 -0700, (Nightstar) wrote: Is there any way to know if a cat is in pain? Are there any "typical" signs? Besides CRF, my beloved Pop has bladder cancer. He behaves like his normal self except for urinating very often and, recently, leaking urine while asleep. He is on Piroxicam, Zeniquin, and Transfer Factor, a new supplement I am trying. And sub- q fluids daily. The vet suggested I give him Buprenex daily for pain. So, I am wondering how do I know he is in pain. I definitely do not want Pop to suffer, but I don't want a semi-comatose kitty every day IF IT ISN'T NECESSARY. He has a good appetite, is affectionate, goes outside on the patio, acts playful... he's just an awesome cat! Thanks for any advice, Pop's mom __________________________________________________ _ Camilla Cracchiolo Registered Nurse Los Angeles, California webpage temporarily down |
#17
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How's your cat doing? Please keep us all informed.
I posted something in error a little earlier: I said Torbutrol was only effective for 3 hours. That's in dogs. NOT true in cats. In cats it's good for at least 6-8 hours, sometimes 12. Depends on the cat. Also, I consulted an oncology vet for my Victor, with oral cancer. The vet said NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatories) are good in cancer control because a lot of the pain, at least Vic's cancer, is from inflammation at the tumor margins where the cancer is eating away the tissue. He mentioned Piroxicam as a good heavy duty aspirin-like NSAID. Your cat's already on it, so it sounds to me like you have a good vet. My old vet never even mentioned this stuff to me. I did find that when the vet added a daily aspirin to Vic's Torbutrol that I was able to lower the Torbutrol dosage. Both seem to work really well together. Also, we discussed the possibility of palliative radiation, which is different from 'definitive' radiation where you are trying to cure the cancer. The radiation is just for pain and works by killing certain kinds of cells that respond to inflammation and which release hormones that increase pain. Now I don't know if this would be at all appropriate for your kitty, since every type of cancer really should be regarded as a whole different disease (in other words, there is no such thing as one disease called "cancer".) But you could ask. It's not cheap, though and means trips to not just the vet, but the big people's hospital (my vet uses UCLA Medical Center, to give you an idea.) It also can have bad side effects, like burns and immune suppression, even though the dosage is much lower than for regular radiation 'curative' treatment. It's only like 3 or 4 treatments though, and sometimes even just one will do the trick for a long time. On 1 Jul 2004 20:15:22 -0700, (Nightstar) wrote: Is there any way to know if a cat is in pain? Are there any "typical" signs? Besides CRF, my beloved Pop has bladder cancer. He behaves like his normal self except for urinating very often and, recently, leaking urine while asleep. He is on Piroxicam, Zeniquin, and Transfer Factor, a new supplement I am trying. And sub- q fluids daily. The vet suggested I give him Buprenex daily for pain. So, I am wondering how do I know he is in pain. I definitely do not want Pop to suffer, but I don't want a semi-comatose kitty every day IF IT ISN'T NECESSARY. He has a good appetite, is affectionate, goes outside on the patio, acts playful... he's just an awesome cat! Thanks for any advice, Pop's mom __________________________________________________ _ Camilla Cracchiolo Registered Nurse Los Angeles, California webpage temporarily down |
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