Gandalf's situation

wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

My doctor has to pay to send me to hospital

This is something I don't understand - could you explain it? Why does your
*doctor* pay for your hospitalization? Isn't it already covered by NHS?
And
when you say he has to pay, do you mean out of a budget that has been
allocated to him by the institution he works for, or by NHS? Or is he
paying
out of his own money? I just find that confusing. I don't think we have
anything like that here.


My GP's have a budget, provided by the NHS. They can either decide to treat
the patient themselves or use their budget to send a patient to a
specialist, or admit them to hospital. Both of which will cost them.
Luckily my own doctors know that their experience is limited and never
worried about their budget if they thought I needed hospital treatment.
As I said, I must have been a serious drain on their finances in the last
few years but they have never hesitated to send me to hospital for all my
eye ops,ovarian ca and all the repairs I needed after that.
I've been asked several times by family & friends whether it would be a
advantage to me to change surgeries from having elderly Asian Indian doctors
look after me.
My answer is no, if I got another like the one that got fed up with being
called out to my friend's mother, with a severe chest infection, with a
history of bowel cancer. He eventually refused to attend and she died of
lung cancer a few days later.
I know that my doctors know that they are not up to speed. I once asked my
doctor about what he knew about macular hole repair (which I'd recently
had.) He said (disarmingly) "Nothing.. *do* tell me about it." He funded
it, so I gave him a lesson on it!

Tweed

wrote in message
...
Cheryl, haven't you ever criticized other countries? We read things in
the news about other countries and wonder how their governments could
treat their people the way they do, even though many of us have never
been to those countries. Most of us have had things to say about China,
Afghanistan, and back when it was relevant, the Soviet Union, to name a
few places. I don't see why Tweed can't express her opinion about the
US's healthcare policy. I'm glad she does. I think a lot of the non-US
residents on this ng are way too polite about this - I hear people say
how much they like their respective national health systems, but nobody
will come out and ask, "Why is the US the only wealthy, industrial country
that doesn't have this??" So, yay Tweed! I think it's time we recognize
that universal health care is *not* a radical idea, despite what a lot
of Americans may think. It's normal and mainstream in most countries that
have the resources to fund such a system.

Joyce


I'm not at all worried to be criticized for saying what I did. I believe
that anyone who is ill or injured should not have to worry about paying for
treatment, and any country that allows that needs a serious WTF is going on
there?!
The USA is one of the most wealthy countries in the world and the idea that
one of your citizens is afraid to get urgent medical help because it's not
affordable, well, it's disgusting.
Tweed

"Sherry" wrote in message news:c6a538bc-1503-46c2-b633-

Pretty much all I've read here is sadly true, but I wanted to add some
thoughts
because I'm afraid Tweed has a mental picture of critically ill people
expiring
on the hospital's back steps because they don't have money or
insurance. That
isn't true.
ER's cannot turn you away and don't ask you for cash up front.
Hospitals
offer payment plans. Hospitals and physicians all take on a number of
"charity cases" each year. You just ask for an application. They
cannot
seize your home or your transportation. There's a book in every county
courthouse called "The Hospital/Physician Lien Book." If you don't
pay,
your name will end up in that book, but they cannot touch your assets
until you die, or try to sell.
ER's are full of people after 5:00 with non-emergency illnesses. Why?
Because they wait until the doctor's office is closed -- they know the
doctor can ask for payment, but the ER can't.
However, if your life depends on something like a transplant, you'll
never
make the list without insurance or money. A 60-year-old noncompliant
alcholic with good insurance will definitely have first dibs on a
liver, even
if you're a healthy 20 year old.
The elderly have Medicare and with a good supplement, their
hospitalizations
are going to be taken care of. Prescriptions maybe not so much I don't
know.
The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.
It's
the rest of us who need to worry.

Sherry

***

Unfortunately, what you say is not always the case. A few months ago, a
woman died in the Emergency Room of a hospital. She had a seizure and was
ignored. She vomited blood, and a janitor was sent to mop up the blood, but
nobody (except for other people who were there for treatment) paid any
attention to her until she was dead. Some other patients tried to get
someone to help her, but nobody would.

Joy

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...
`````
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

I've taken a long while to say that the USA (it seems to me) is the
same as
third world countries with the medicare they provide for the
vulnerable.

And getting more and more like that every day, as the gap between rich
and poor widens and widens. It's practically a crime to be poor in this
country.

People who don't support universal healthcare in the US come in two
categories: the greedy and the stupid. The greedy are the rich folks
who don't want to part with their wealth, society be damned. The stupid
is everyone else. Why would hardworking, struggling people *not* support
benefits that would give them and their families a big break? Damned if
I know - they're brainwashed? You hear them parroting phrases like
"death
panels" and you know those people didn't come up with that phrase on
their
own. Turn off the Fox "news" (thanks, dkg), folks, and learn something
for a change, will you?

Joyce


It might help if the providers of said help and "medical care" didn't pad
the bills. When I fell and broke my nose last month the ambulance bill
alone was $400... and it says $101 of that is listed as being for the
fuel to transport me. I know damn good and well it didn't cost them $101
to drive me *20 miles*. Maybe if they were using rocket fuel...

Insurance and universal healthcare issues aside, someone really needs to
put a stop to the outrageous overcharging. It's no wonder the average
(much less poor) person cannot afford to seek medical assistance.

Jill

I have favored some sort of national health care for my entire adult life,
and it angers me to see the number of people who have no sympathy/empathy
at all. However, I would like to point out that some of the outrageous
billing practices are related to the high number of Medicaid patients that
hospitals care for. Hospitals and doctors are given ridiculously low
payments for them, so people with insurance end up with much higher bills.
My mother was a private-pay patient when she was in the nursing home
(although she also had Medicare--*not* Medicaid, which helped a lot). Her
roommate was a Medicaid patient. Medicaid paid 100% of her care and also
provides a small cash payment directly to the patient. She was later able
to transfer to low-income housing. It is actually a pretty nice
unit--bedroom, living room, kitchen, and bathroom. That is also 100% paid
for by Medicaid, and she received $60.00 per month for incidentals. She
is diabetic and morbidly obese, so she had aides who came in for several
hours twice a day to help her, and a nurse came in once a week to check on
her health and lay out medical supplies for the week. I say "had" because
she is now back in a rehab center. Medicaid is paying for that and also
for her apartment. Medicaid has also paid for glasses, false teeth, three
different surgeries related to poor blood circulation, transportation for
medical care, and doctors' visits on an average of every two weeks. So,
my point is that she desperately *needs* medical care, and I think it is
outrageous that we do not have better health care for the poor and
elderly, but it is *not* true that hospitals can simply turn a critically
ill patient away and let them die.

MaryL

Sorry, but it does happen. See my post in this thread about the woman who
died in Emergency while being ignored by hospital personnel.

Joy

In article
,
Sherry wrote:


The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.

Unfortunately, most of us don't. You have to fight tooth and nail for
state health coverage (Medicaid) and most states are so underfunded that
you're almost automatically rejected unless you have official disability
status (which has to be re-checked every so many years) or are pregnant.
Been there, done that, still have no insurance despite living below the
poverty line and having bipolar II severe enough that it's landed me in
the hospital. They can't refuse you care, but they can certainly send
your bill to the collection agency when you don't pay it fast enough...

--
minnow ^..^

http://twitter.com/taheenahana
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/

"Joy" wrote in message
. ..
"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote in message
...
`````
"jmcquown" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

I've taken a long while to say that the USA (it seems to me) is the
same as
third world countries with the medicare they provide for the
vulnerable.

And getting more and more like that every day, as the gap between rich
and poor widens and widens. It's practically a crime to be poor in this
country.

People who don't support universal healthcare in the US come in two
categories: the greedy and the stupid. The greedy are the rich folks
who don't want to part with their wealth, society be damned. The stupid
is everyone else. Why would hardworking, struggling people *not*
support
benefits that would give them and their families a big break? Damned if
I know - they're brainwashed? You hear them parroting phrases like
"death
panels" and you know those people didn't come up with that phrase on
their
own. Turn off the Fox "news" (thanks, dkg), folks, and learn something
for a change, will you?

Joyce


It might help if the providers of said help and "medical care" didn't
pad the bills. When I fell and broke my nose last month the ambulance
bill alone was $400... and it says $101 of that is listed as being for
the fuel to transport me. I know damn good and well it didn't cost them
$101 to drive me *20 miles*. Maybe if they were using rocket fuel...

Insurance and universal healthcare issues aside, someone really needs to
put a stop to the outrageous overcharging. It's no wonder the average
(much less poor) person cannot afford to seek medical assistance.

Jill

I have favored some sort of national health care for my entire adult
life, and it angers me to see the number of people who have no
sympathy/empathy at all. However, I would like to point out that some of
the outrageous billing practices are related to the high number of
Medicaid patients that hospitals care for. Hospitals and doctors are
given ridiculously low payments for them, so people with insurance end up
with much higher bills. My mother was a private-pay patient when she was
in the nursing home (although she also had Medicare--*not* Medicaid,
which helped a lot). Her roommate was a Medicaid patient. Medicaid paid
100% of her care and also provides a small cash payment directly to the
patient. She was later able to transfer to low-income housing. It is
actually a pretty nice unit--bedroom, living room, kitchen, and bathroom.
That is also 100% paid for by Medicaid, and she received $60.00 per month
for incidentals. She is diabetic and morbidly obese, so she had aides
who came in for several hours twice a day to help her, and a nurse came
in once a week to check on her health and lay out medical supplies for
the week. I say "had" because she is now back in a rehab center.
Medicaid is paying for that and also for her apartment. Medicaid has also
paid for glasses, false teeth, three different surgeries related to poor
blood circulation, transportation for medical care, and doctors' visits
on an average of every two weeks. So, my point is that she desperately
*needs* medical care, and I think it is outrageous that we do not have
better health care for the poor and elderly, but it is *not* true that
hospitals can simply turn a critically ill patient away and let them die.

MaryL

Sorry, but it does happen. See my post in this thread about the woman who
died in Emergency while being ignored by hospital personnel.

Joy


I should not have implied that it *never* happens, but we do have laws in
effect now that require hospitals/emergency rooms to render treatment for
emergency situations. Unfortunately (and tragically), there are cases where
personnel either do not recognize the seriousness of the case or ignore
basic needs. There was a news report a few months ago that showed a woman
falling out of a chair in an emergency room, lying there for *hours* while
hospital staff walked by, and then later died. An absolute atrocity! I
also wasn't very clear in describing my mother's former roommate (in the
nursing home) as being paid for entirely by Medicaid. Medicaid does pay
100% for her medical care, but expenses such as her apartment come from
other welfare sources.

MaryL

"Joy" wrote in message
. ..
"Sherry" wrote in message news:c6a538bc-1503-46c2-b633-

Pretty much all I've read here is sadly true, but I wanted to add some
thoughts
because I'm afraid Tweed has a mental picture of critically ill people
expiring
on the hospital's back steps because they don't have money or
insurance. That
isn't true.
ER's cannot turn you away and don't ask you for cash up front.
Hospitals
offer payment plans. Hospitals and physicians all take on a number of
"charity cases" each year. You just ask for an application. They
cannot
seize your home or your transportation. There's a book in every county
courthouse called "The Hospital/Physician Lien Book." If you don't
pay,
your name will end up in that book, but they cannot touch your assets
until you die, or try to sell.
ER's are full of people after 5:00 with non-emergency illnesses. Why?
Because they wait until the doctor's office is closed -- they know the
doctor can ask for payment, but the ER can't.
However, if your life depends on something like a transplant, you'll
never
make the list without insurance or money. A 60-year-old noncompliant
alcholic with good insurance will definitely have first dibs on a
liver, even
if you're a healthy 20 year old.
The elderly have Medicare and with a good supplement, their
hospitalizations
are going to be taken care of. Prescriptions maybe not so much I don't
know.
The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.
It's
the rest of us who need to worry.

Sherry

***

Unfortunately, what you say is not always the case. A few months ago, a
woman died in the Emergency Room of a hospital. She had a seizure and was
ignored. She vomited blood, and a janitor was sent to mop up the blood,
but nobody (except for other people who were there for treatment) paid any
attention to her until she was dead. Some other patients tried to get
someone to help her, but nobody would.

Joy


I responded to your other message before I read this one. Ironically, the
situation you described here is the same one that I discussed in my
follow-up. This was a truly outrageous, abominable lack of care.
Fortunately, it was also a highly unusual situation--and made national news
for that reason.

MaryL

On Oct 22, 2:26*pm, "Joy" wrote:
"Sherry" wrote in message news:c6a538bc-1503-46c2-b633-

Pretty much all I've read here is sadly true, but I wanted to add some
thoughts
because I'm afraid Tweed has a mental picture of critically ill people
expiring
on the hospital's back steps because they don't have money or
insurance. That
isn't true.
ER's cannot turn you away and don't ask you for cash up front.
Hospitals
offer payment plans. Hospitals and physicians all take on a number of
"charity cases" each year. You just ask for an application. They
cannot
seize your home or your transportation. There's a book in every county
courthouse called "The Hospital/Physician Lien Book." If you don't
pay,
your name will end up in that book, but they cannot touch your assets
until you die, or try to sell.
ER's are full of people after 5:00 with non-emergency illnesses. Why?
Because they wait until the doctor's office is closed -- they know the
doctor can ask for payment, but the ER can't.
However, if your life depends on something like a transplant, you'll
never
make the list without insurance or money. A 60-year-old noncompliant
alcholic with good insurance will definitely have first dibs on a
liver, even
*if you're a healthy 20 year old.
The elderly have Medicare and with a good supplement, their
hospitalizations
are going to be taken care of. Prescriptions maybe not so much I don't
know.
The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.
It's
the rest of us who need to worry.

Sherry

***

Unfortunately, what you say is not always the case. *A few months ago, a
woman died in the Emergency Room of a hospital. *She had a seizure and was
ignored. *She vomited blood, and a janitor was sent to mop up the blood, but
nobody (except for other people who were there for treatment) paid any
attention to her until she was dead. *Some other patients tried to get
someone to help her, but nobody would.

Joy

I heard that story. However, I don't remember that it had anything to
do with
her ability or inability to pay. Patients are triaged according to
severity of
their conditon. I don't think staff realized how sick she was.

Sherry

"Joy"
"Sherry" -

Pretty much all I've read here is sadly true, but I wanted to add some
thoughts
because I'm afraid Tweed has a mental picture of critically ill people
expiring
on the hospital's back steps because they don't have money or
insurance. That
isn't true.
ER's cannot turn you away and don't ask you for cash up front.
Hospitals
offer payment plans. Hospitals and physicians all take on a number of
"charity cases" each year. You just ask for an application. They
cannot
seize your home or your transportation. There's a book in every county
courthouse called "The Hospital/Physician Lien Book." If you don't
pay,
your name will end up in that book, but they cannot touch your assets
until you die, or try to sell.
ER's are full of people after 5:00 with non-emergency illnesses. Why?
Because they wait until the doctor's office is closed -- they know the
doctor can ask for payment, but the ER can't.
However, if your life depends on something like a transplant, you'll
never
make the list without insurance or money. A 60-year-old noncompliant
alcholic with good insurance will definitely have first dibs on a
liver, even
if you're a healthy 20 year old.
The elderly have Medicare and with a good supplement, their
hospitalizations
are going to be taken care of. Prescriptions maybe not so much I don't
know.
The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.
It's
the rest of us who need to worry.

Sherry

***

Unfortunately, what you say is not always the case. A few months ago, a
woman died in the Emergency Room of a hospital. She had a seizure and was
ignored. She vomited blood, and a janitor was sent to mop up the blood,
but nobody (except for other people who were there for treatment) paid any
attention to her until she was dead. Some other patients tried to get
someone to help her, but nobody would.

Joy

Oh no, that is sad, sick and wrong IMO. I'd sue the hospital if that
happened.!!!
Love, Kyla

On Oct 22, 3:18*pm, "Kyla =^..^=" wrote:
"Joy"





"Sherry" -

Pretty much all I've read here is sadly true, but I wanted to add some
thoughts
because I'm afraid Tweed has a mental picture of critically ill people
expiring
on the hospital's back steps because they don't have money or
insurance. That
isn't true.
ER's cannot turn you away and don't ask you for cash up front.
Hospitals
offer payment plans. Hospitals and physicians all take on a number of
"charity cases" each year. You just ask for an application. They
cannot
seize your home or your transportation. There's a book in every county
courthouse called "The Hospital/Physician Lien Book." If you don't
pay,
your name will end up in that book, but they cannot touch your assets
until you die, or try to sell.
ER's are full of people after 5:00 with non-emergency illnesses. Why?
Because they wait until the doctor's office is closed -- they know the
doctor can ask for payment, but the ER can't.
However, if your life depends on something like a transplant, you'll
never
make the list without insurance or money. A 60-year-old noncompliant
alcholic with good insurance will definitely have first dibs on a
liver, even
if you're a healthy 20 year old.
The elderly have Medicare and with a good supplement, their
hospitalizations
are going to be taken care of. Prescriptions maybe not so much I don't
know.
The poor and disabled have Medicaid. Again, not perfect. Most states
have programs in place for children living below the poverty line.
It's
the rest of us who need to worry.

Sherry

***

Unfortunately, what you say is not always the case. *A few months ago, a
woman died in the Emergency Room of a hospital. *She had a seizure and was
ignored. *She vomited blood, and a janitor was sent to mop up the blood,
but nobody (except for other people who were there for treatment) paid any
attention to her until she was dead. *Some other patients tried to get
someone to help her, but nobody would.

Joy

Oh no, that is sad, sick and wrong IMO. *I'd sue the hospital if that
happened.!!!
Love, Kyla


And it had nothing to do with finances. And it wasn't even a regular
medical facility. It was a psychiatric hospital.

Sherry