Hill's Feline S/D, Hill's Feline CD-S

(Liz) wrote in message . com...

First, what is cheaper, a maintenance canned food or a prescription
dry diet?

Unquestionably a DRY Prescription Diet, no if's and's or butt's about
it. Canned foods are ALWAYS substantially more expensive than dry
foods.

Second, how many competitors does Hill´s prescription diet have?
Three? IVD, Purina and Waltham? Any others?

Purina, Waltham, Cadillac, Leo, Triumph, Royal Canin V-Diets, Eukanuba
all sell an Rx diet of some kind.

BTW, is this the "water dissolves all uroliths" argument that you are
ridiculed for?

By who? By someone who only plagiarizes text because he can´t even
understand something enough to use his own words?

Come off it Liz, you're just digging your own grave deeper and deeper.
You were unquestionably proven wrong on the dissolution of CaOx
stones. Why not show us a bit more mature attitude and admit it.

From: (Liz)

I studied crystals for a long time mr.


Then you would understand that managing FLUTD isn't as simple as just drinking
water.

Wow. As for the "no money" in canned foods,
that's just ridiculous. There is more profit in a case of canned food
being
sold than there is in a bag of food being sold.

First, what is cheaper, a maintenance canned food or a prescription
dry diet?

Why are you comparing apples and oranges. Canned foods are more expensive than
dry foods on a cost per lb basis and when you consider turns.

Second, how many competitors does Hill´s prescription diet have?
Three? IVD, Purina and Waltham? Any others?

IAMS, off the top of my head, which owns Eukanuba.

So, if you own a company, would you rather have a 25% chance of being
chosen by a customer or a 1% chance of being chosen?
You should think a bit more before you jump to your conclusions.

Liz, you're not using your head here. What makes you think that FLUTD can be
effectively managed by feeding a grocery store food? Again, you're comparing
apples and oranges.

BTW, is this the "water dissolves all uroliths" argument that you are
ridiculed for?

By who?

I'm not asking by "who", I'm asking if this is the argument that you are
ridiculed for? Why are you changing the subject. And, oh, by the way....you
were never going to respond to me again. What happened? Were you lying to me
that time?

Do you really believe I´m affected at all by what this caveman thinks
of me? Oh, please!

WTF?

It´s not a matter of being smart, it´s a matter of reading. If you
don´t know something, go read about it. Don´t blame me if you are too
lazy to read or simply don´t care to learn more.

Nobody is blaming you for anything here. Don't be paranoid. However, I've
read a bit on the topic of FLUTD and it's an extremely complex subject. If you
think you can effectively manage FLUTD by having the cat consume more water,
it's just not that easy. You can't read about something and then know
everything there is to know.

So it´s your choice: be an
idiot that anyone can fool or make yourself smart. Reading will not
kill you but it may save your life.

If you think that JUST reading makes you smart, you better THINK again! Your
advice doesn't seem to ever be on the money, so reading what you have to say
about cats could kill *them*. Reading doesn't make you smart--LEARNING does.

From: (Liz)

I studied crystals for a long time mr.


Then you would understand that managing FLUTD isn't as simple as just drinking
water.

Wow. As for the "no money" in canned foods,
that's just ridiculous. There is more profit in a case of canned food
being
sold than there is in a bag of food being sold.

First, what is cheaper, a maintenance canned food or a prescription
dry diet?

Why are you comparing apples and oranges. Canned foods are more expensive than
dry foods on a cost per lb basis and when you consider turns.

Second, how many competitors does Hill´s prescription diet have?
Three? IVD, Purina and Waltham? Any others?

IAMS, off the top of my head, which owns Eukanuba.

So, if you own a company, would you rather have a 25% chance of being
chosen by a customer or a 1% chance of being chosen?
You should think a bit more before you jump to your conclusions.

Liz, you're not using your head here. What makes you think that FLUTD can be
effectively managed by feeding a grocery store food? Again, you're comparing
apples and oranges.

BTW, is this the "water dissolves all uroliths" argument that you are
ridiculed for?

By who?

I'm not asking by "who", I'm asking if this is the argument that you are
ridiculed for? Why are you changing the subject. And, oh, by the way....you
were never going to respond to me again. What happened? Were you lying to me
that time?

Do you really believe I´m affected at all by what this caveman thinks
of me? Oh, please!

WTF?

It´s not a matter of being smart, it´s a matter of reading. If you
don´t know something, go read about it. Don´t blame me if you are too
lazy to read or simply don´t care to learn more.

Nobody is blaming you for anything here. Don't be paranoid. However, I've
read a bit on the topic of FLUTD and it's an extremely complex subject. If you
think you can effectively manage FLUTD by having the cat consume more water,
it's just not that easy. You can't read about something and then know
everything there is to know.

So it´s your choice: be an
idiot that anyone can fool or make yourself smart. Reading will not
kill you but it may save your life.

If you think that JUST reading makes you smart, you better THINK again! Your
advice doesn't seem to ever be on the money, so reading what you have to say
about cats could kill *them*. Reading doesn't make you smart--LEARNING does.

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
Liz, you are sure full of yourself aren't you? You think you know
everything
there is to know about FLUTD?

I studied crystals for a long time mr.


*Obviously*, not long enough in cats! LOL!



Wow. As for the "no money" in canned foods,
that's just ridiculous. There is more profit in a case of canned food
being
sold than there is in a bag of food being sold.

First, what is cheaper, a maintenance canned food or a prescription
dry diet?

No, Einstein, *first* which diet is better for the *cat*? A maintenance diet
or a prescription diet formulated to treat a specific disease?

I don´t know the prices there but here, to feed a cat for
one month with a maintenance canned diet is cheaper than with a
prescription diet.

Brilliant deduction, Einstein! Not on an equal calorie basis! The major
problem with your assine conclusion is the cat may not be *alive* in a
month - *especially* if the cat is a male with urolithiasis... who can *die*
from acute renal failure or severe damage to urinary bladder caused by a
urolith that produced a partial or complete urethral obstruction. But, hey,
at least you saved a few cents, right?


Second, how many competitors does Hill´s prescription diet have?
Three? IVD, Purina and Waltham? Any others?
How many competitors does Hill´s maintenance canned diet have? One
hundred? One hundred fifty?

I'm sure that ****es the cats off, too....

If the owner is convinced to use a prescription diet, he will have 4
diets to choose from, therefore, the chance of any of them being
picked is 25%. If the owner is told that any canned food will do, and
there are 100 brands out there, what is the chance that any is picked?
Only 1%.

Any canned diet *will not* do! No maintenience canned diet will dissolve
an *already existing* urolith that's large enough to obstruct the urethra of
a male cat...

Your logic really *is* detached from reality!


So, if you own a company, would you rather have a 25% chance of being
chosen by a customer or a 1% chance of being chosen?
You should think a bit more before you jump to your conclusions.

You should think more about what's best for the *cat* than your morbid
obsessive hatred for Hill's...



You're not as smart as you think.

It´s not a matter of being smart, it´s a matter of reading. If you
don´t know something, go read about it

.....and manipulate or misinterpret whatever you don't like about the study
or article... like you do...



BTW, is this the "water dissolves all uroliths" argument that you are
ridiculed for?

By who? By someone who only plagiarizes text because he can´t even
understand something enough to use his own words?

Hey, at least my direct quotes aren't manipulated or deliberately
misinterpreted like yours are to suit your obsessed, fanatical agenda...
When you say "your own words", you *really* mean "your own words" -- because
your "own words" usually have a very different meaning than what the author
intended!


By someone who will
ridicule and namecall anyone he does not agree with?

Not "anyone"... usually only lying manipulators like you who manipulate
information to suit your morbid, obessive, fanatical agenda. ..

I disagree with a lot of people... "disagreements" are one thing, downright
manipulations, deliberate misrepresentations and deliberate
misinterpretations are quite another matter.


By someone who
will alter the wording of a study to prove his point?

Wow! That's clear evidence that you're detached from reality and suffering
from delusions and/or you're compulsive *liar*. Unlike you, I have no need
to alter studies because the *truth* is my side. You, OTOH, *must* alter,
manipulate, and deliberately misinterpret studies because your assine and
utterly *stupid* theories and agenda are not supported by the mainstream
veterinary community.

How about your little piece manipulative and deliberately misinterpreted
handiwork in *altering* the protein-phosphorus restriction survery...? You
said that most of the respondants including Dr. Polzin said they "didn't
feel phosphorus was detrimental enough to restrict...." When in *reality*
*none* of the respondants said any such thing or even remotely close to it!
.....

And how about your deliberately omitting the last sentence of the renal
study you posted that said phosphorus restriction should be a part of any
treatment for cats with CRF... simply because it contradicted your asinine
theory.


By someone who
is deliberately rude to the point of pushing people away from this ng?

Its more like their bullsh!t and/or agenda couldn't stand up to factual
challenge.... I sure wish it would work on you... before your bogus and
dangerous information gets a cat killed... if it hasn't already.

Do you really believe I´m affected at all by what this caveman thinks
of me? Oh, please!

Don't flatter yourself... You're suffering from delusions of grandeur if you
think I care what affects you... (other than a speeding freight train or
large truck). My only concern is the welfare of the cats... I'd hate see a
cat die or get sicker because a newbie or someone who just doesn't know any
better, thought you actually knew something about cats. Your chemistry set
manual posts may fool some people, but you *can't* fool people who have
*actual* experience and *know* most of your convoluted "lab" theories do not
apply to cats.... like your utterly asinine theory about dissolving calcium
oxalate in cats with *water*!

You're the quintessential example of a typical manipulating au naturel
fanatic.

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
Liz, you are sure full of yourself aren't you? You think you know
everything
there is to know about FLUTD?

I studied crystals for a long time mr.


*Obviously*, not long enough in cats! LOL!



Wow. As for the "no money" in canned foods,
that's just ridiculous. There is more profit in a case of canned food
being
sold than there is in a bag of food being sold.

First, what is cheaper, a maintenance canned food or a prescription
dry diet?

No, Einstein, *first* which diet is better for the *cat*? A maintenance diet
or a prescription diet formulated to treat a specific disease?

I don´t know the prices there but here, to feed a cat for
one month with a maintenance canned diet is cheaper than with a
prescription diet.

Brilliant deduction, Einstein! Not on an equal calorie basis! The major
problem with your assine conclusion is the cat may not be *alive* in a
month - *especially* if the cat is a male with urolithiasis... who can *die*
from acute renal failure or severe damage to urinary bladder caused by a
urolith that produced a partial or complete urethral obstruction. But, hey,
at least you saved a few cents, right?


Second, how many competitors does Hill´s prescription diet have?
Three? IVD, Purina and Waltham? Any others?
How many competitors does Hill´s maintenance canned diet have? One
hundred? One hundred fifty?

I'm sure that ****es the cats off, too....

If the owner is convinced to use a prescription diet, he will have 4
diets to choose from, therefore, the chance of any of them being
picked is 25%. If the owner is told that any canned food will do, and
there are 100 brands out there, what is the chance that any is picked?
Only 1%.

Any canned diet *will not* do! No maintenience canned diet will dissolve
an *already existing* urolith that's large enough to obstruct the urethra of
a male cat...

Your logic really *is* detached from reality!


So, if you own a company, would you rather have a 25% chance of being
chosen by a customer or a 1% chance of being chosen?
You should think a bit more before you jump to your conclusions.

You should think more about what's best for the *cat* than your morbid
obsessive hatred for Hill's...



You're not as smart as you think.

It´s not a matter of being smart, it´s a matter of reading. If you
don´t know something, go read about it

.....and manipulate or misinterpret whatever you don't like about the study
or article... like you do...



BTW, is this the "water dissolves all uroliths" argument that you are
ridiculed for?

By who? By someone who only plagiarizes text because he can´t even
understand something enough to use his own words?

Hey, at least my direct quotes aren't manipulated or deliberately
misinterpreted like yours are to suit your obsessed, fanatical agenda...
When you say "your own words", you *really* mean "your own words" -- because
your "own words" usually have a very different meaning than what the author
intended!


By someone who will
ridicule and namecall anyone he does not agree with?

Not "anyone"... usually only lying manipulators like you who manipulate
information to suit your morbid, obessive, fanatical agenda. ..

I disagree with a lot of people... "disagreements" are one thing, downright
manipulations, deliberate misrepresentations and deliberate
misinterpretations are quite another matter.


By someone who
will alter the wording of a study to prove his point?

Wow! That's clear evidence that you're detached from reality and suffering
from delusions and/or you're compulsive *liar*. Unlike you, I have no need
to alter studies because the *truth* is my side. You, OTOH, *must* alter,
manipulate, and deliberately misinterpret studies because your assine and
utterly *stupid* theories and agenda are not supported by the mainstream
veterinary community.

How about your little piece manipulative and deliberately misinterpreted
handiwork in *altering* the protein-phosphorus restriction survery...? You
said that most of the respondants including Dr. Polzin said they "didn't
feel phosphorus was detrimental enough to restrict...." When in *reality*
*none* of the respondants said any such thing or even remotely close to it!
.....

And how about your deliberately omitting the last sentence of the renal
study you posted that said phosphorus restriction should be a part of any
treatment for cats with CRF... simply because it contradicted your asinine
theory.


By someone who
is deliberately rude to the point of pushing people away from this ng?

Its more like their bullsh!t and/or agenda couldn't stand up to factual
challenge.... I sure wish it would work on you... before your bogus and
dangerous information gets a cat killed... if it hasn't already.

Do you really believe I´m affected at all by what this caveman thinks
of me? Oh, please!

Don't flatter yourself... You're suffering from delusions of grandeur if you
think I care what affects you... (other than a speeding freight train or
large truck). My only concern is the welfare of the cats... I'd hate see a
cat die or get sicker because a newbie or someone who just doesn't know any
better, thought you actually knew something about cats. Your chemistry set
manual posts may fool some people, but you *can't* fool people who have
*actual* experience and *know* most of your convoluted "lab" theories do not
apply to cats.... like your utterly asinine theory about dissolving calcium
oxalate in cats with *water*!

You're the quintessential example of a typical manipulating au naturel
fanatic.

So you recognized yourself, huh? That´s good. Recognizing your faults
is the first step towards improvement.

So you recognized yourself, huh? That´s good. Recognizing your faults
is the first step towards improvement.

Well hello Steve! I thought you were ignoring me. Where are all the
references I requested of you?

Well hello Steve! I thought you were ignoring me. Where are all the
references I requested of you?

In article ,
"Phil P." wrote:

Any canned diet *will not* do! No maintenience canned diet will dissolve
an *already existing* urolith that's large enough to obstruct the urethra of
a male cat...

Your logic really *is* detached from reality!

All this talk of uroliths...it IS still true, isn't it, that
urolithiasis is RARE in cats? And that obstructive feline lower urinary
tract disease results from mucus plugs of which only part of the
composition is crystalline matter? And that the jury is still out on the
chicken-or-egg issue of whether the crystals cause the irritation that
cause the mucus, or whether the irritation causes the proper environment
for crystal formation AND mucus formation, and the crystals just get
caught up in a plug that would have blocked the cat anyway? And that
crystalluria and urolithiasis may or may NOT be connected, particularly
that the crystalline composition of "sand" in the bladder is NOT
diagnostic of the crystalline composition of any bladder stone that
might be present?

That was certainly the common knowledge in texts and journals a little
over a year ago.

Sure, calcium oxalate crystal formations can't easily be dissolved but
as a matter of prevention, a dilute urine doesn't form crystals easily
and a cat with frequent urination of high volume is at far less risk of
blockage than a cat that pees little and seldom. Which I know you know
since you tout the importance of a moist diet all the time.

-Alison in OH