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#21
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#22
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If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile." I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted? Oh, great. A great ape user. Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans. My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright |
#23
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If you think this is "cool" or "educational" read the book "Behind the
Dolphin Smile." I never said this was cool (I wish it didn't happen at all). But it is educational. Where do you think conservation research is conducted? Oh, great. A great ape user. Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans. My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright |
#24
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In ,
Yngver being of bellicose mind posted: K wrote: The latest I heard is the tiger is going to a zoo, because it is an endangered species. Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat where the tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat is somewhat better than some zoos can afford to provide. Next time you're in Las Vegas, stop by the MGM to see the lion habitat. In the late afternoon when the lions become active, two humans play ball with the lions. The habitat has 2 1/2 large glass walls and a glass tunnel thru the habitat. No tricks or performing, just playing with a large pnuematic ball or two. http://www.a2zlasvegas.com/otherside/sights/lions.html http://www.vacationidea.com/articles..._Gallery6.html -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#25
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In ,
Yngver being of bellicose mind posted: K wrote: The latest I heard is the tiger is going to a zoo, because it is an endangered species. Why would a zoo habitat be any different than the tiger habitat where the tigers live now? I'd guess in fact their current habitat is somewhat better than some zoos can afford to provide. Next time you're in Las Vegas, stop by the MGM to see the lion habitat. In the late afternoon when the lions become active, two humans play ball with the lions. The habitat has 2 1/2 large glass walls and a glass tunnel thru the habitat. No tricks or performing, just playing with a large pnuematic ball or two. http://www.a2zlasvegas.com/otherside/sights/lions.html http://www.vacationidea.com/articles..._Gallery6.html -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" |
#26
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--"JLove98905" wrote in message ... I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is unfair, but I'm not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las Vegas and stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised to learn that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation programs. In addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility. There was some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as being similar to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees. The ideal solution would be to cut the performing, and focus on the conservation. Maybe that's what they'll do going forward. I guess the point it, they have done some good for seriously threatened species, in addition to their show work. At least *part* of the ludicrous amount of money they make goes back to the animals. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright Hi jen , Thanks for explaining , I didnt know this . The reasoning here is The means just the ends.? I'm not convinced but I don't know enough about the actual research they do and what's involved. I know there are other consevation societies and research done else where. I think in this case, that a show that could encourage people to keep wild pets should spend the profits on the wild animals that are kept as pets , sadly a law (brought in much too late ) to stop people keeping tigers as pets could mean the death of many as they have no where to go . Alison |
#27
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--"JLove98905" wrote in message ... I agree that using wild animals for entertainment purposes is unfair, but I'm not sure how I feel about boycotting S&R. I recently went to Las Vegas and stayed at the Mirage. I visited the animal areas, and was surprised to learn that Siegfried and Roy spend a lot of money on conservation programs. In addition to the lions and tigers, they also have a dolphin facility. There was some work done on dolphin behavior there, which I remembered as being similar to my own behavioral research with chimpanzees. The ideal solution would be to cut the performing, and focus on the conservation. Maybe that's what they'll do going forward. I guess the point it, they have done some good for seriously threatened species, in addition to their show work. At least *part* of the ludicrous amount of money they make goes back to the animals. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright Hi jen , Thanks for explaining , I didnt know this . The reasoning here is The means just the ends.? I'm not convinced but I don't know enough about the actual research they do and what's involved. I know there are other consevation societies and research done else where. I think in this case, that a show that could encourage people to keep wild pets should spend the profits on the wild animals that are kept as pets , sadly a law (brought in much too late ) to stop people keeping tigers as pets could mean the death of many as they have no where to go . Alison |
#28
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JLove98905" wrote in message ... Hi, Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather brave of her. A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them .. The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs, though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I flipping well hope not. LOL Alison Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans. My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright |
#29
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JLove98905" wrote in message ... Hi, Jane Goodall is my hero . I read her book many years ago when she was young she went into the forests to study the wild chimps , rather brave of her. A while back some elderly research chimps were offered to rescue societies in America but sadly they couldn't help then due to the cost of keeping them in retirement .I don't know what happened to them .. The drugs we use are tested on animals but mainly by guinea pigs and rats , not by chimps I hope. ( I still feel for the rats and GPs, though ) Humans are also used to study drugs after they've been tested on animals . I'm taking part in at a study in the Uk *Are new treatments for rheumatoid arthritis harmful to long-term health* . I flipping well hope not. LOL Alison Everybody has their own ethical line with animal research. I'm a biologist who studies biomedical concepts. I personally couldn't do anything invasive to chimps, or dolphins, or anything above rats, for one thing. And anything I would do to any animal would involve strict humane standards. Secondarily, some research is necessary. I specifically chose a research project that was purely behavioral, period. I don't enjoy torturing animals, and in fact I was pre-vet in college, because I wanted to go in to biotech as a veterinarian to ensure humane treatment for research animals. I agree that in an ideal world, no animals would have to be used in research. However, that's just not the reality of medicine. I'm sure whatever drugs you are taking to save your own health required the (hopefully) humane use of animals. My behavior study was about cognitive development in chimps, to compare it with humans. My point was simply that they (Siegfried and Roy and the Mirage) are at least putting some of their money back into animal conservation. I would definitely prefer if they didn't use the tigers at all. But if they are, at least they can give something back to the tigers. And that's what they do. -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright |
#30
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"-L." wrote in message m... As much as I hate animal exploitation, I still have sympathy for Roy Horn. Yes, he deserved it, but it would be sad for his family if he died from it. Hi L , I hope he doesn't die , I just don't feel sorry for him . He knows the risks and has the choice of whether to perform or not but the tigers don't have a choice. Alison It's a shame these shows are still allowed in this day and age. The same as people keeping tigers as pets . I believe there are about 80,000 of them . Why aren't the welfare groups putting pressure on the venues and arranging boycotts and demonstrations? They are, all over the country and have been doing so for years. There is finally some attention being given to the subject. No shows - no performing wild animals . bingo. -L. |
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