Boyfie is glad

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Joy" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Lesley wrote:

I know what you mean ;-) Pauline is very tall and slim and she looked
good in them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me, particularly as
she knew exactly what clothes were Goth and what was "Steam Punk" (never
heard of that before!)

I just happen to know a little about Steam Punk. I had never heard of it
either, until a couple of years ago, when I found out my nephew was in a
Steam Punk band. It's an interesting, if slightly wacky, concept. It's
a bit like medieval role playing, except that they supposedly have many
of the machines and mechanical devices we have today, operated by steam
instead of electricity. I'm explaining it poorly, but that's partly
because I don't completely understand it. They wear elaborate costumes
and seem to have a lot of fun. My nephew and his wife are both in the
band, and they (the band) have gotten as much as $5,000 for a
performance. They are currently in the process of making a for-TV movie
either about or involving Steam Punk.

--
Joy

Conrad cuddles me.
I'm holding a koala!
My heart overflows.
--- Australia Haiku by Joy Gaylord


Today at the Senior Citizen's Playgroup we were discussing our Christmas
meal out and Pauline looked at me and said to the whole group "I might
wear the new clothes I bought in London for that" and they all said
"yes, why not?" I could hardly keep a straight face but said "I dare
you.."
She has a wicked sense of humour as no-one except myself knows what she
bought (which would be highly inappropriate to wear at a senior
citizen's Christmas dinner!)
She won't, of course. She will dress in her usual black.

I really admire her for being brave enough for everything. I am fairly
sure I couldn't deal with being transgender and Goth at the same time.
I absolutely love her, she is a beautiful soul.
Tweed (I just wish she would admit it to me, the transgender thing, but
she hasn't yet. It truly would make no difference to our friendship but
I can't mention it of course before she does. This is an elephant in
the room for me. But yet, would I do this in the same situation? At
the risk of losing a friend who might be judgmental, I probably would be
scared too.

You are a good friend, and I'm glad she has you. I suspect that being
transgender must be a very lonely thing. Maybe sometime you could work
something into the conversation about some of the issues or events
regarding transgenders that make the news, making your opinions obvious.

--
I'm too scared to do it. She knows I know but we pretend I don't. I just
wish she would trust me with her secret but she doesn't atm. This is
difficult.

Yes, I'm sure it is, and you're the only one who can decide how to handle it
(or not handle it). My best wishes for both of you.

Joy

"Judith Latham" wrote in message
...
In article , Christina Websell
wrote:


I'm sure in time she'll get it that you won't be judgemental at all. Your
friendship is growing and when she feels it's right it'll come up in
conversation. It's a bit difficult just to come out with it cold.

Judith

I'm not holding my breath. She knows I have a social work background and am
unilkely to be judgmental, but hey, this will take years.
anyway, we get on very well. She's a civil engineer and we do well at
Scrabble. She beat me twice today but I had rubbish tiles, all vowels


t

"Joy" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Lesley wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:23:57 PM UTC-8, Christina Websell
wrote:

Pauline loved it, she was able to blow her budget with Goth clothes
that you

cannot get in our home town.

Camden Market is overpriced for clothes even through there is some
lovely stuff- direct Pauline to somewhere like the Gothic Shop at
http://www.kinkyangel.co.uk/?gclid=C...Y7HtAodyl8AbA- I got a
glorious Victorian style burgundy velvet jacket with a black lace trim
and a black satin rear bodice strap for £45 (bit dearer because it was
a bigger size)from them and they also carry Spiral Direct t-shirts
etc. (I have a Spiral Direct skirt- black with a black lace over skirt
with black satin rosettes on the over skirt- stunning!)


I'm not Goth (if I tried to be, people would just laugh), but I like
some
of the styles. I get this catalog called "The Pyramid Collection", which
is full of all kinds of alternative fashions - everything from Goth to
light
bondage gear to Pagan flowing capes, etc, and even tie-dye hippie stuff.
I
don't know if it's available in the UK.

There's a certain kind of jacket that's popular, marketed to
girls/women,
but I could see a boy/guy wearing it, too. It's very long and tailored,
has
a big collar, lots of buttons, wide sleeves with big cuffs and more
brass.
I think it's meant to be Goth, but I always think of Prince.

Actually, I look at that stuff and I just feel like it's too
young-looking
for me. Usually I don't care about that - I never signed an agreement
saying
that once I passed 50 I would wear nothing but old-lady clothes. But
this
stuff is mostly geared toward teenagers. Plus the styles are designed
for
tall people - those big, long dresses and jackets - and I'm short. I
feel
like a kid dressed up in mommy's clothes when I put on anything like
that.


I know what you mean ;-) Pauline is very tall and slim and she looked
good in them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me, particularly as she
knew exactly what clothes were Goth and what was "Steam Punk" (never
heard of that before!)

I just happen to know a little about Steam Punk. I had never heard of it
either, until a couple of years ago, when I found out my nephew was in a
Steam Punk band. It's an interesting, if slightly wacky, concept. It's a
bit like medieval role playing, except that they supposedly have many of
the machines and mechanical devices we have today, operated by steam
instead of electricity. I'm explaining it poorly, but that's partly
because I don't completely understand it. They wear elaborate costumes
and seem to have a lot of fun. My nephew and his wife are both in the
band, and they (the band) have gotten as much as $5,000 for a performance.
They are currently in the process of making a for-TV movie either about or
involving Steam Punk.

--
Joy


Today at the Senior Citizen's Playgroup we were discussing our Christmas
meal out and Pauline looked at me and said to the whole group "I might
wear the new clothes I bought in London for that" and they all said
"yes, why not?" I could hardly keep a straight face but said "I dare
you.."
She has a wicked sense of humour as no-one except myself knows what she
bought (which would be highly inappropriate to wear at a senior citizen's
Christmas dinner!)
She won't, of course. She will dress in her usual black.

I really admire her for being brave enough for everything. I am fairly
sure I couldn't deal with being transgender and Goth at the same time. I
absolutely love her, she is a beautiful soul.
Tweed (I just wish she would admit it to me, the transgender thing, but
she hasn't yet. It truly would make no difference to our friendship but
I can't mention it of course before she does. This is an elephant in the
room for me. But yet, would I do this in the same situation? At the
risk of losing a friend who might be judgmental, I probably would be
scared too.

You are a good friend, and I'm glad she has you. I suspect that being
transgender must be a very lonely thing. Maybe sometime you could work
something into the conversation about some of the issues or events
regarding transgenders that make the news, making your opinions obvious.

--
Joy

I truly daren't, Joy. I want it come from her, if she ever wants to confide
this. If I did, she'd "know I know" - and it's very important to "pass as a
woman", which she does, until she speaks. Somehow the hormones don't do the
voice.
She has never told me a lie, though. She has said she'll be on HRT for the
rest of her life and her consultant advised this. She has two children but
never said she gave birth to them, merely said "I brought up two children.."
she also confided that her mother (still alive in her 90's) has told her she
wished Pauline had never been born, and both her sister and brother haven't
spoken to her for 17 years.
How sad is that?
I tell you what, I'd never be as brave as she has been. I'd be too much of a
coward.
She is a lovely friend. Best of both worlds. I tell her to stop putting on
her lipstick so often and she sharpens my axes. How good is that?

Tweed

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Joy" wrote in message
...
"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Lesley wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:23:57 PM UTC-8, Christina Websell
wrote:

Pauline loved it, she was able to blow her budget with Goth clothes
that you

cannot get in our home town.

Camden Market is overpriced for clothes even through there is some
lovely stuff- direct Pauline to somewhere like the Gothic Shop at
http://www.kinkyangel.co.uk/?gclid=C...Y7HtAodyl8AbA- I got
a glorious Victorian style burgundy velvet jacket with a black lace
trim and a black satin rear bodice strap for £45 (bit dearer because
it was a bigger size)from them and they also carry Spiral Direct
t-shirts etc. (I have a Spiral Direct skirt- black with a black lace
over skirt with black satin rosettes on the over skirt- stunning!)


I'm not Goth (if I tried to be, people would just laugh), but I like
some
of the styles. I get this catalog called "The Pyramid Collection",
which
is full of all kinds of alternative fashions - everything from Goth to
light
bondage gear to Pagan flowing capes, etc, and even tie-dye hippie
stuff. I
don't know if it's available in the UK.

There's a certain kind of jacket that's popular, marketed to
girls/women,
but I could see a boy/guy wearing it, too. It's very long and tailored,
has
a big collar, lots of buttons, wide sleeves with big cuffs and more
brass.
I think it's meant to be Goth, but I always think of Prince.

Actually, I look at that stuff and I just feel like it's too
young-looking
for me. Usually I don't care about that - I never signed an agreement
saying
that once I passed 50 I would wear nothing but old-lady clothes. But
this
stuff is mostly geared toward teenagers. Plus the styles are designed
for
tall people - those big, long dresses and jackets - and I'm short. I
feel
like a kid dressed up in mommy's clothes when I put on anything like
that.


I know what you mean ;-) Pauline is very tall and slim and she looked
good in them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me, particularly as
she knew exactly what clothes were Goth and what was "Steam Punk" (never
heard of that before!)

I just happen to know a little about Steam Punk. I had never heard of it
either, until a couple of years ago, when I found out my nephew was in a
Steam Punk band. It's an interesting, if slightly wacky, concept. It's
a bit like medieval role playing, except that they supposedly have many
of the machines and mechanical devices we have today, operated by steam
instead of electricity. I'm explaining it poorly, but that's partly
because I don't completely understand it. They wear elaborate costumes
and seem to have a lot of fun. My nephew and his wife are both in the
band, and they (the band) have gotten as much as $5,000 for a
performance. They are currently in the process of making a for-TV movie
either about or involving Steam Punk.

--
Joy


Today at the Senior Citizen's Playgroup we were discussing our Christmas
meal out and Pauline looked at me and said to the whole group "I might
wear the new clothes I bought in London for that" and they all said
"yes, why not?" I could hardly keep a straight face but said "I dare
you.."
She has a wicked sense of humour as no-one except myself knows what she
bought (which would be highly inappropriate to wear at a senior
citizen's Christmas dinner!)
She won't, of course. She will dress in her usual black.

I really admire her for being brave enough for everything. I am fairly
sure I couldn't deal with being transgender and Goth at the same time.
I absolutely love her, she is a beautiful soul.
Tweed (I just wish she would admit it to me, the transgender thing, but
she hasn't yet. It truly would make no difference to our friendship but
I can't mention it of course before she does. This is an elephant in
the room for me. But yet, would I do this in the same situation? At
the risk of losing a friend who might be judgmental, I probably would be
scared too.

You are a good friend, and I'm glad she has you. I suspect that being
transgender must be a very lonely thing. Maybe sometime you could work
something into the conversation about some of the issues or events
regarding transgenders that make the news, making your opinions obvious.

--
Joy

I truly daren't, Joy. I want it come from her, if she ever wants to
confide this. If I did, she'd "know I know" - and it's very important to
"pass as a woman", which she does, until she speaks. Somehow the hormones
don't do the voice.
She has never told me a lie, though. She has said she'll be on HRT for
the rest of her life and her consultant advised this. She has two
children but never said she gave birth to them, merely said "I brought up
two children.." she also confided that her mother (still alive in her
90's) has told her she wished Pauline had never been born, and both her
sister and brother haven't spoken to her for 17 years.
How sad is that?
I tell you what, I'd never be as brave as she has been. I'd be too much of
a coward.
She is a lovely friend. Best of both worlds. I tell her to stop putting
on her lipstick so often and she sharpens my axes. How good is that?

Tweed

Yes, I can see that you have to follow her head, especially since it seems
that you're the only family she has. Never mind the fact that you aren't
related; you're her family.

Joy

"Joy" wrote in message
...
I truly daren't, Joy. I want it come from her, if she ever wants to
confide this. If I did, she'd "know I know" - and it's very important to
"pass as a woman", which she does, until she speaks. Somehow the
hormones don't do the voice.
She has never told me a lie, though. She has said she'll be on HRT for
the rest of her life and her consultant advised this. She has two
children but never said she gave birth to them, merely said "I brought up
two children.." she also confided that her mother (still alive in her
90's) has told her she wished Pauline had never been born, and both her
sister and brother haven't spoken to her for 17 years.
How sad is that?
I tell you what, I'd never be as brave as she has been. I'd be too much
of a coward.
She is a lovely friend. Best of both worlds. I tell her to stop putting
on her lipstick so often and she sharpens my axes. How good is that?

Tweed

Yes, I can see that you have to follow her head, especially since it seems
that you're the only family she has. Never mind the fact that you aren't
related; you're her family.

I cannot under why her brother/sister have rejected her, she is lovely, but
they have. Their loss IMO.
I have no idea what her sexuality is, when were in London she nearly bought
a tee shirt that said "no one knows I m a lesbian" but I know she has a
boyfriend. Who might have a shock.

Tweed

Christina Websell wrote:

I truly daren't, Joy. I want it come from her, if she ever wants to confide
this. If I did, she'd "know I know" - and it's very important to "pass as a
woman", which she does, until she speaks. Somehow the hormones don't do the
voice.

Yeah, it's too late for the voice. Once a boy goes through puberty and his
voice changes, it can't be unchanged. At least, not with any technology we
have now. The vocal cords lengthen and thicken, and they can't be shrunk
back.

I have a friend who was born female but feels male inside. She has never
had any procedure or made any changes to her physiology. She has occasionally
considered taking testosterone (or "T" as they call it), but she's a singer,
with a high and very beautiful voice. If she took it, her voice would drop
like any teenage boy's, and there's no guarantee that her lower voice would
be as beautiful, or even that she would still be able to sing very well.

--
Joyce

"Riveting reading that keeps readers reading."
-- The Midwest Book Review

"Joy" wrote in message ...

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Lesley wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:23:57 PM UTC-8, Christina Websell
wrote:

Pauline loved it, she was able to blow her budget with Goth clothes
that you

cannot get in our home town.

Camden Market is overpriced for clothes even through there is some
lovely stuff- direct Pauline to somewhere like the Gothic Shop at
http://www.kinkyangel.co.uk/?gclid=C...Y7HtAodyl8AbA- I got a
glorious Victorian style burgundy velvet jacket with a black lace trim
and a black satin rear bodice strap for £45 (bit dearer because it was
a bigger size)from them and they also carry Spiral Direct t-shirts etc.
(I have a Spiral Direct skirt- black with a black lace over skirt with
black satin rosettes on the over skirt- stunning!)


I'm not Goth (if I tried to be, people would just laugh), but I like some
of the styles. I get this catalog called "The Pyramid Collection", which
is full of all kinds of alternative fashions - everything from Goth to
light
bondage gear to Pagan flowing capes, etc, and even tie-dye hippie stuff.
I
don't know if it's available in the UK.

There's a certain kind of jacket that's popular, marketed to girls/women,
but I could see a boy/guy wearing it, too. It's very long and tailored,
has
a big collar, lots of buttons, wide sleeves with big cuffs and more
brass.
I think it's meant to be Goth, but I always think of Prince.

Actually, I look at that stuff and I just feel like it's too
young-looking
for me. Usually I don't care about that - I never signed an agreement
saying
that once I passed 50 I would wear nothing but old-lady clothes. But this
stuff is mostly geared toward teenagers. Plus the styles are designed for
tall people - those big, long dresses and jackets - and I'm short. I feel
like a kid dressed up in mommy's clothes when I put on anything like
that.


I know what you mean ;-) Pauline is very tall and slim and she looked
good in them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me, particularly as she
knew exactly what clothes were Goth and what was "Steam Punk" (never heard
of that before!)

I just happen to know a little about Steam Punk. I had never heard of it
either, until a couple of years ago, when I found out my nephew was in a
Steam Punk band. It's an interesting, if slightly wacky, concept. It's a
bit like medieval role playing, except that they supposedly have many of the
machines and mechanical devices we have today, operated by steam instead of
electricity. I'm explaining it poorly, but that's partly because I don't
completely understand it. They wear elaborate costumes and seem to have a
lot of fun. My nephew and his wife are both in the band, and they (the
band) have gotten as much as $5,000 for a performance. They are currently
in the process of making a for-TV movie either about or involving Steam
Punk.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I heard a radio interview with some Steampunk musicians that were going to
do a concert in a local historical cemetery.
There are some Steampunk radio stations on internet radio. It is
interesting.

I have a friend who was born female but feels male inside. She has never
had any procedure or made any changes to her physiology. She has occasionally
considered taking testosterone (or "T" as they call it), but she's a singer,
with a high and very beautiful voice. If she took it, her voice would drop
like any teenage boy's, and there's no guarantee that her lower voice would
be as beautiful, or even that she would still be able to sing very well.

I know somebody who did a female-to-male transition and does a bit of
singer-songwriter performing. I don't remember him from before the
change, and the resulting voice was rather unappealing - bland and
colourless. Singer-songwriter music is not really my thing, but the
performers I do like all have very strongly gendered voices - Joan
Armatrading or Leonard Cohen, say.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 http://www.campin.me.uk Twitter: JackCampin

Jack Campin wrote:

I have a friend who was born female but feels male inside. She has never
had any procedure or made any changes to her physiology. She has occasionally
considered taking testosterone (or "T" as they call it), but she's a singer,
with a high and very beautiful voice. If she took it, her voice would drop
like any teenage boy's, and there's no guarantee that her lower voice would
be as beautiful, or even that she would still be able to sing very well.

I know somebody who did a female-to-male transition and does a bit of
singer-songwriter performing. I don't remember him from before the
change, and the resulting voice was rather unappealing - bland and
colourless. Singer-songwriter music is not really my thing, but the
performers I do like all have very strongly gendered voices - Joan
Armatrading or Leonard Cohen, say.

I think Joan Armatrading's singing voice could pass for a man's. I don't
know if anyone has actually made that mistake, but her voice is deep enough
that I think it's possible.

What don't you like about singer-songwriter music? It's actually a pretty
large category, since it includes anyone who writes and performs their own
songs. That doesn't require the style to be acoustic, nor does it mean the
songs have to be introspective and emotional - that's the stereotype, but
if a rock band writes their own material, aren't they singer-songwriters,
too?

I like the genre, partly because I'm interested in songwriting - I've
written many songs myself.

--
Joyce

The heck with top and bottom -- I want relationships with strangeness
and charm.

"news" wrote in message
...


"Joy" wrote in message ...

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Bastette" wrote in message
...
Lesley wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:23:57 PM UTC-8, Christina Websell
wrote:

Pauline loved it, she was able to blow her budget with Goth clothes
that you

cannot get in our home town.

Camden Market is overpriced for clothes even through there is some
lovely stuff- direct Pauline to somewhere like the Gothic Shop at
http://www.kinkyangel.co.uk/?gclid=C...Y7HtAodyl8AbA- I got a
glorious Victorian style burgundy velvet jacket with a black lace trim
and a black satin rear bodice strap for £45 (bit dearer because it was
a bigger size)from them and they also carry Spiral Direct t-shirts
etc. (I have a Spiral Direct skirt- black with a black lace over skirt
with black satin rosettes on the over skirt- stunning!)


I'm not Goth (if I tried to be, people would just laugh), but I like
some
of the styles. I get this catalog called "The Pyramid Collection", which
is full of all kinds of alternative fashions - everything from Goth to
light
bondage gear to Pagan flowing capes, etc, and even tie-dye hippie stuff.
I
don't know if it's available in the UK.

There's a certain kind of jacket that's popular, marketed to
girls/women,
but I could see a boy/guy wearing it, too. It's very long and tailored,
has
a big collar, lots of buttons, wide sleeves with big cuffs and more
brass.
I think it's meant to be Goth, but I always think of Prince.

Actually, I look at that stuff and I just feel like it's too
young-looking
for me. Usually I don't care about that - I never signed an agreement
saying
that once I passed 50 I would wear nothing but old-lady clothes. But
this
stuff is mostly geared toward teenagers. Plus the styles are designed
for
tall people - those big, long dresses and jackets - and I'm short. I
feel
like a kid dressed up in mommy's clothes when I put on anything like
that.


I know what you mean ;-) Pauline is very tall and slim and she looked
good in them. It was certainly an eye-opener for me, particularly as she
knew exactly what clothes were Goth and what was "Steam Punk" (never
heard of that before!)

I just happen to know a little about Steam Punk. I had never heard of it
either, until a couple of years ago, when I found out my nephew was in a
Steam Punk band. It's an interesting, if slightly wacky, concept. It's a
bit like medieval role playing, except that they supposedly have many of
the
machines and mechanical devices we have today, operated by steam instead
of
electricity. I'm explaining it poorly, but that's partly because I don't
completely understand it. They wear elaborate costumes and seem to have a
lot of fun. My nephew and his wife are both in the band, and they (the
band) have gotten as much as $5,000 for a performance. They are currently
in the process of making a for-TV movie either about or involving Steam
Punk.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I heard a radio interview with some Steampunk musicians that were going to
do a concert in a local historical cemetery.
There are some Steampunk radio stations on internet radio. It is
interesting.
I find the whole thing of dressing up in Goth or Steam Punk clothes
interesting but I will always support the idea of "being what you want to
be"
I'm quite boring. When I went to work I dressed appropriately in skirts and
little boots but now I just wear jeans or trousers. I cannot imagine me in
a basque, and apparently it's important to have steel in it for
reinforcement and not plastic. A whole different world opened for me at
Camden Market but it must be popular as there were loads of people selling
Goth & Steam Punk clothes. We did of course spend far too much time
looking at them. so I said "you get three shops, and then I get three" which
was agreed, but there was nothing there for me. I'd expected some antique
stalls, or at least some variation from clothes, clothes, clothes. Just
before we went home (down in the basement with the toilets) I found an
interesting stall but by then it was too late.
Would I go again? Probably not.

AND, when we shared how much we'd enjoyed it, one of the members in the
Senior Citizen's Playgroup said "I went there once, it was full of big black
men so I didn't like it"
I said "So? What did you expect they might do, murder you?" This is the
second time I have challenged her for racism. I went on a trip with her in
the summer and she was talking to stallholders about how our home town has
Asians and she doesn't like it. I told her off. That's the first and last
time she has the chance of a day trip with me.
I prefer Pauline to go with x million.
Tweed