[OT] The dangers of tidy

That's outrageous. Supervisors should be worried about the results of your
work, not how you do it! Something like this may actually *decrease* your
efficiency by messing up your system.

It's even *MORE* outrageous that people rifled into your private belongings
in the middle of the conference - that must feel like a gang rape done in a
public place.

You'd think, with all the cutbacks in personnel your company has suffered
that there would be other, more important business to attend to.

I'm so sorry this happened to you Vicky. Purrs being sent to try to soothe
your nerves, and dirty litterbox offerings to your f*cked up supervisor.

--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.com/rpcablog/

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some
people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

Two people pitched in to help. I thought this was unnecessary, but
apparently my desk was in 'such a state' that I needed two more able
bodied
persons to either do the extraordinary amount of work required (it didn't
think it did) or to supervise me to mak sure I actually did the task
rather
than letting it go (I am not that slack).

The upshot was that my desk, plust the contents of my drawers, the
personal
and private contents of my desk drawers, were all dumped out on the big
conference room and people who were not me got to rifle through thema nd
decide what was to stay, and what was to go. Thankfully at least I got to
decide where the 'go' stuff got to end up - either in the bin or a box
that
I had to take home. But I was Not Impressed with this process, especially
when other, more senionr, male people have IMHO, far worse desks than I do
and don't get criticised for it. I also object that whilst OK, perhaps it
looks bad, it doesn't interfere with my work, so there is NO NEED to go
through absolutely everything with other people, only to tidy up what was
actually visible.

The upshot is that I have two boxes of junk to take home, and lots of
paper
to either file or bin.

OK. Its done. Yay.

And then I was asked where the minutes of yesterday's project planning
meeting where and why I hadn't typed them up yet.

Well, I hadn't typed them up because I was doing the very important task
of
having my personal belongings examined, but I'd get to it Real Soon Now.

Except that they've been misplaced.

No other copies exist.

The *were* on top of my "Needs to Be Done" pile before the safety police
decided to turn my working life upside down. This is how my filing system
works. I put it on top of my 'needs to be done' pile, and work through it.
The less urgent material naturally sorts its way to the bottom of the pile
and every so often, when I get a spare few hours, I'll sort through the
bottom of the pile and see what still needs to be done and what can now
safely be ignored. Its an organic sort of system, it may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me perfectly in the last 23 years, and
no-one has complained that I haven't got done on time what I've supposed
to
have got done.

Except *someone* intereferred with this system and now I have *no idea*
where the meeting notes are. They could be in my filing cabinet, in any
number of folders. They could be sorted into notes. They could have been
thrown away as 'scrap paper'. I have NO IDEA where they are and there's
about 20 people, including managers and manger's managers and one of the
vice-presidents of the company relying on the notes from the project
planning meeting to be produced today.

These are the dangers of forcing an organising system onto someone who
doesn't organise themselves in that way. This is the dangers of 'tidy'. It
may *look* all neat and effecient, but for those who aren't naturally
inclined to that way of thinking, it makes actually getting the important
things done virtually impossible.

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised'
office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before. One
day
I dream of having so little work to do that my desk will only have a
carefully aligned pen on it - then I'll be ready to be the president of
the
company.

Yowie

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
In ,
typed:
Yowie wrote:

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my
'organised' office trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand
written notes. This will waste a good few hours, when in my old
'messy' system I would have had it done by now. So I've pretty much
wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and now 'searching' all in the
name of *appearing* to be more effecient when there was absolutely
nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before.

By the way, would you mind if I forwarded your story to a couple of
friends of mine? One of them has an unusual filing system - he throws
his papers on the floor in random-seeming piles. The place looks like
someone trashed it, but he knows exactly what is where. Whenever
someone looks like they might even accidentally move something, he
gets very agitated about it. If anyone pulled something on him like
what happened at your job, he'd probably need a padded cell. Anyway,
I thought he and his partner would have sympathy for your story. I
can take out headers and so forth if you prefer.

Feel free to send it on

Oh, there's no violation. Anything at work is fair game for a "safety
audit" which includes "housekeeping". Most people have the common decency
to stay out of desk drawers, lockers etc etc, but the person doing the
audit, my manager is a) new and b) a total neat freak, so he had to 'set
an example'. Alas, I am one with the chronic messy desk in his group and
therefore the one he targetted. The other fellow up the corridor, with a
far FAR worse desk than mine is not a direct report of his, so therefore
doesn't come under his scrutiny.

Most of my 'stuff' were toys of some sort, general distractions from the
dreariness that is work, and little gifts from Joel when we were first
dating (eg, a small teddy bear holding an "I love you" heart). These were
both 'not work related' and deemed 'not really appropriate for the image
we are trying to project' and therefore had to go. I can't see how them
sitting in a drawer projects any image at all, but there you go. It's a
work desk and should only have work related stuff in it, apprantly.
*Sigh*. And how can I argue? They are quite clearly *not work related*
(then again, are tampons work related?) so he believes they shouldn't be
here. I could of course keep them in my handbag (that wasn't looked at)
but I don't have room for that stuff in my handbag. That's the only place
he thinks is OK to keep 'personal' stuff. His desk of course is as neat as
a pin. And yes, I am the only person in my building who has more personal
stuff on and in my desk than just the classic framed photo of wife & kids,
since I don't have the obligatory wife.

Yowie

Good gawd! *EVERY* executive in my company have offices that look like a
paper bomb went off in there (and keeping a tidy desk will only get you more
work since people think if there not a ton of paper lying around the desk
and floor that you must not be busy enough. Also, one person has an entire
teddy bear collection, *I* have a *large* collection of cat figurines.
Every exec has actual office and not a cube - and there is a glass panel
next to the door so people can peek in on you to see if you're on the phone
before barging in. All of them have pictures and cartoons and all sorts of
strange things taped on the inside of the glass facing outwards - so even
people walking down the hall can see their "treasure" (and the added bonus
of blocking the view into the office, LOL)!

Again, I'm am so, so sorry that was done to you.


--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.com/rpcablog/

The *ONLY* rules about where you put your things is when a hurricane is
approaching, all files have to be locked up. The office's outside wall is
just big panes of glass, and since we're an HR company with people's private
retirement documents containing their social security numbers, we don't want
those papers to be scattered ll across Houston if the gales or accompanying
tornados burst those windows (which actually happened to a *finance company*
who did not enforce that policy - gads, they got a "black eye" for that
mess!

--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.com/rpcablog/

wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

I do so feel your pain about this. My personal opinion is that a work
desk
is a personal space and providing that it isn't a health hazard and you
can
do your work effectively, it's no-one's business but your own.
My desk at work is one of the "medium" sort - not as tidy as some, but
not
as bad as others. My colleagues know they mess with tidying it at their
peril.

To me there's a big difference between the level of neatness on your desk,
which is visible, and how tidy you keep your drawers, which are not.

And I can understand wanting to keep up appearances for certain visitors.
A couple of years ago, a bunch of Japanese businessmen came to check out
our company and possibly invest in it (we're still a private company), and
everyone had to clean up their offices and dress nicely because that's
what's expected of workers in Japan. But nobody bothered us about things
that weren't visible.

I still think it's weird to have 20 people descend on someone and force
them to empty out all the personal spaces in their desk, and then spread
them out in a conference room so everyone can evaluate them.

Joyce

--
Whenever you feel anger, you should say, "May I be free of this
anger!" This rarely works, but talking to yourself in public will
encourage others to leave you alone.

CatNipped wrote:

Yowie wrote:

Most of my 'stuff' were toys of some sort, general distractions from the
dreariness that is work, and little gifts from Joel when we were first
dating (eg, a small teddy bear holding an "I love you" heart). These were
both 'not work related' and deemed 'not really appropriate for the image
we are trying to project' and therefore had to go.

Good gawd! *EVERY* executive in my company have offices that look like a
paper bomb went off in there (and keeping a tidy desk will only get you more
work since people think if there not a ton of paper lying around the desk
and floor that you must not be busy enough. Also, one person has an entire
teddy bear collection, *I* have a *large* collection of cat figurines.
Every exec has actual office and not a cube - and there is a glass panel
next to the door so people can peek in on you to see if you're on the phone
before barging in. All of them have pictures and cartoons and all sorts of
strange things taped on the inside of the glass facing outwards - so even
people walking down the hall can see their "treasure" (and the added bonus
of blocking the view into the office, LOL)!

The guy whose office is across from mine has pictures up all over his
walls that were drawn, painted, etc, by his 6-year-old. When he gets
a new one, he adds it to the collection. They're great conversation
starters, among other things.

Yowie, your boss is a killjoy. (I don't remember if he's the guy you
report to directly, or if he's higher up, but whatever, you're in his
chain of command, right?) I hope he loosens up!

Joyce

--
Whenever you feel anger, you should say, "May I be free of this
anger!" This rarely works, but talking to yourself in public will
encourage others to leave you alone.

Joy wrote:
wrote in message
...
John F. Eldredge wrote:

On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 01:10:45 -0700, NettieCat wrote:
Good grief, I would have been furious. I would probably done or said
something unwise.

I work like you. My desk isn't just untidy, it's a positive shambles,
but like you, I can always find what needs to be found. Every six
months
or so I have a filing session, and I know that for a while after, I
spend ages looking for things because my system has been disturbed.

Some people just can't stand things to be 'out of place' by their
standards. I once worked in an office where a senior manager tried to
impose a 'clean desk' policy. I got round it by putting all the stuff
from my desk in a big box at the end of the day, and putting the box on
top of my chair. Of course, it meant that I spent half an hour a day
packing and unpacking the box instead of working, but at least I had a
'tidy desk'.

I'm with you Yowie, it's best to let people work as they are used to
working.

Jeanette
I have always been fond of the saying, "A neat desk is a sign of an idle
mind."
Also, a clean house is a sign of a broken computer. Definitely true of
my house!

Mine too.

Joy


What's a clean house? ;o)

--
Adrian (Owned by Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk

Just let us know if you find the notes. I lost something like this once and
nearly drove me nuts. Turned out someone took them who had no business
looking at the minutes but I was the one who got yelled at.
"Yowie" wrote in message
...
My desk at work is usually somewhat chaotic. Its not as bad as some
people,
but those 'some people' are blokes, and I am not. For some reason its
expected that my desk should be tidy. I have no idea why people get their
knickers in a knot about it - i can always find everything I need in a
heartbeat, I know what piles are what, what section of my desk refers to
what subject matter, etc etc. I don't expect anyone else to be able to
figure it out, but its *my* desk and it works for me.

We had the safety police around, and I was told in no uncertain terms that
my desk would be tidy. No ifs or buts, it was to be done NOW.

Two people pitched in to help. I thought this was unnecessary, but
apparently my desk was in 'such a state' that I needed two more able
bodied
persons to either do the extraordinary amount of work required (it didn't
think it did) or to supervise me to mak sure I actually did the task
rather
than letting it go (I am not that slack).

The upshot was that my desk, plust the contents of my drawers, the
personal
and private contents of my desk drawers, were all dumped out on the big
conference room and people who were not me got to rifle through thema nd
decide what was to stay, and what was to go. Thankfully at least I got to
decide where the 'go' stuff got to end up - either in the bin or a box
that
I had to take home. But I was Not Impressed with this process, especially
when other, more senionr, male people have IMHO, far worse desks than I do
and don't get criticised for it. I also object that whilst OK, perhaps it
looks bad, it doesn't interfere with my work, so there is NO NEED to go
through absolutely everything with other people, only to tidy up what was
actually visible.

The upshot is that I have two boxes of junk to take home, and lots of
paper
to either file or bin.

OK. Its done. Yay.

And then I was asked where the minutes of yesterday's project planning
meeting where and why I hadn't typed them up yet.

Well, I hadn't typed them up because I was doing the very important task
of
having my personal belongings examined, but I'd get to it Real Soon Now.

Except that they've been misplaced.

No other copies exist.

The *were* on top of my "Needs to Be Done" pile before the safety police
decided to turn my working life upside down. This is how my filing system
works. I put it on top of my 'needs to be done' pile, and work through it.
The less urgent material naturally sorts its way to the bottom of the pile
and every so often, when I get a spare few hours, I'll sort through the
bottom of the pile and see what still needs to be done and what can now
safely be ignored. Its an organic sort of system, it may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me perfectly in the last 23 years, and
no-one has complained that I haven't got done on time what I've supposed
to
have got done.

Except *someone* intereferred with this system and now I have *no idea*
where the meeting notes are. They could be in my filing cabinet, in any
number of folders. They could be sorted into notes. They could have been
thrown away as 'scrap paper'. I have NO IDEA where they are and there's
about 20 people, including managers and manger's managers and one of the
vice-presidents of the company relying on the notes from the project
planning meeting to be produced today.

These are the dangers of forcing an organising system onto someone who
doesn't organise themselves in that way. This is the dangers of 'tidy'. It
may *look* all neat and effecient, but for those who aren't naturally
inclined to that way of thinking, it makes actually getting the important
things done virtually impossible.

I'm now going to have to waste more time going through my 'organised'
office
trying to find three pages of A4 paper with hand written notes. This will
waste a good few hours, when in my old 'messy' system I would have had it
done by now. So I've pretty much wasted one full day at work 'tidying' and
now 'searching' all in the name of *appearing* to be more effecient when
there was absolutely nothing wrong with *actual* effeciency before. One
day
I dream of having so little work to do that my desk will only have a
carefully aligned pen on it - then I'll be ready to be the president of
the
company.

Yowie

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
That's outrageous. Supervisors should be worried about the results of
your work, not how you do it! Something like this may actually *decrease*
your efficiency by messing up your system.

It's even *MORE* outrageous that people rifled into your private
belongings in the middle of the conference - that must feel like a gang
rape done in a public place.

You'd think, with all the cutbacks in personnel your company has suffered
that there would be other, more important business to attend to.

I'm so sorry this happened to you Vicky. Purrs being sent to try to
soothe your nerves, and dirty litterbox offerings to your f*cked up
supervisor.

I suppose I have to accept that tidying your desk and your desk drawers
ocasionally might be a good thing as I am tackling mine now. Only 5 work
days to go now and I am amazed about what I saved from 03 or well before
that that it not relevant now.
The good stuff like "the rights of asylum seeking children in Britain"
I am offering to my colleagues. It's so strange to think I will not need
that any more.
Some of the men in the team are already asking me if they can have my chair
or my stapler when I am gone but I know very well that's how they are coping
with the idea that they have never been without me and they will miss me.
God forbid that a Brit man would say such a thing.
Can I have your chair or stapler?? They have both these things themselves
already.
Tweed

On 8/10/2010 12:52 AM, Granby wrote:
Just let us know if you find the notes. I lost something like this once and
nearly drove me nuts. Turned out someone took them who had no business
looking at the minutes but I was the one who got yelled at.

Never did find them, but managed to get by on someone else's notes
(they're compulsive note takers) and my memory.

I mean, who ever reads the minutes of a meeting no-one wanted to be at
in the first place?

Yowie