Four kittens to TED Monday

On Jan 18, 9:51*pm, "Pat" wrote:
"Joy" wrote

| Good for you, Pat! *I love your responses.

Typos and all?

Of course you do, because you would rather engage in subtle flaming of
someone you don't like than look at the real issue, which is the
welfare of some innocent kittens and the abhorrent practices of a vet
that thinks a 1970's anesthesia protocol using substandard drugs that
can cause serious issues is okey dokey.

On Jan 18, 9:59*pm, "Pat" wrote:
"Jofirey" wrote

| I'm shocked! *Shocked mind you.
|
| Pat I never knew you had such restraint in you.
|
| Cheers.
|
| And purrs for the unhappy little ones. *They will be fine by morning.

I'm not too worried about the boys but I know the agony of the days after
having abdominal surgery, and of bad anesthesia.

Did you get pain meds? Yet you blow off the necessity of giving a
little kitten who will have her stomach sliced open the same. Or the
boys who will have their testicles removed. Unbelievable.

On Jan 19, 12:26*am, "Kelly Greene" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

news
I'm not really more worried about her than I've been with any of the other
girl-cats who've owned me. Of course it's comforting to go to the same vet
routinely and the flank incision does heal faster, but if you had any idea
how seriously these cats are already straining our little budget, you
would
marvel that we don't simply toss them out to fend for themselves. I need
to
find more ways to economize, not fewer. My #1 priority is ensuring they
get
the best food we can afford, as a preventative measure so their vet bills
will be minimal in future. But lately I've had to cut back to using kibble
that does have some corn in it, but at least corn isn't the main
ingredient.

Since you're so far out in the country, miles from interstate ramps and
large towns.... how on earth will you find homes for all these cats and
kittens?


She won't. She's known these animals have needed homes for months.
Where are those homes? And in the meantime she has, unfortunately,
sucked in a few good hearted people who obviously don't know any
better to help finance her to continue. I predict there will be few to
no homes for any of these cats and the collection of cats will grow.

"catlady" wrote in message
...
On Jan 18, 9:59 pm, "Pat" wrote:
"Jofirey" wrote

| I'm shocked! Shocked mind you.
|
| Pat I never knew you had such restraint in you.
|
| Cheers.
|
| And purrs for the unhappy little ones. They will be fine by morning.

I'm not too worried about the boys but I know the agony of the days after
having abdominal surgery, and of bad anesthesia.

Did you get pain meds? Yet you blow off the necessity of giving a
little kitten who will have her stomach sliced open the same. Or the
boys who will have their testicles removed. Unbelievable.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I woke up in excruciating pain when I had a hysterectomy years ago. I could
not be given pain medication at that time because "someone" thought it had
already been given before I left surgery. When they followed the trail and
discovered that I had not been given the normal pain medication, they were
very apologetic and immediately got some for me. Incredible relief!

Cats seem to recover more quickly than we hoomins do, and they are often
active in a short period of time. But I cannot imagine putting a poor
little cat or kitten (beautiful creatures under *our* care) through that
procedure without providing pain medication. I'm not trying to
anthromorphize here, but I think it is legitimate to ask people to consider
whether they would want to go through a procedure without pain
medication--and, if not, then we should not ask it of our furbabies.

MaryL

"Pat" wrote in message
et...

"Kelly Greene" wrote

| Since you're so far out in the country, miles from interstate ramps and
| large towns.... how on earth will you find homes for all these cats and
| kittens?

I'm in a small town, surrounded by other small towns and lots of rural
space. There are people here too.



If you were going to look for homes for these kittens (as most rescue groups
do), you would already have been looking for placement homes.
Unfortunately, it is well known that it is much easier to find homes for
cute little kittens than for adult cats. Therefore, it made no sense to
"wait" if you are looking for homes. How are you going to find people to
adopt large numbers of cats in that locale if you haven't been able to find
anyone to adopt these little kittens? It is normal procedure for a shelter
or rescue group to require adopters to have the kitten spayed/neutered. You
could have gone that route if you could not afford the medicare yourself
rather than delay the time for adoption. Still, you have me puzzled. Not
too long ago, you wrote that you could not even afford hot water or regular
kitty litter--you said you were looking for a substitute for litter. That
does not bode well for a person to keep large numbers of cars.

MaryL

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote

| If you were going to look for homes for these kittens (as most rescue
groups
| do), you would already have been looking for placement homes.
| Unfortunately, it is well known that it is much easier to find homes for
| cute little kittens than for adult cats. Therefore, it made no sense to
| "wait" if you are looking for homes.

In the first place, the kittens were in bad shape when they arrived here.
Even less than wanting an adult cat, most folks do not want a sick kitten.
Nevertheless, the word has been out locally for quite some time, in local
networks where everyone pretty much knows who's who and would not offer
kittens to the wrong sort of people. I have only been waiting to put them
before a wider audience after their snips and the shelter web site is up.

| How are you going to find people to adopt large numbers of
| cats in that locale if you haven't been able to find anyone to
| adopt these little kittens?

I don't expect anyone to adopt a large number of adult cats. I do expect
these young ones to be adopted, one or two at a time. And I'm willing to
screen the adopters carefully.

| It is normal procedure for a shelter or rescue group to
| require adopters to have the kitten spayed/neutered.

And just how is that policy enforced? Are adoption fees refunded following
the procedures? If there is to be an adoption fee - and there has to be, to
discourage the careless and cruel - that alone will stop most people these
days and especially around here, where kittens are literally a dime a dozen
because so many people REFUSE to spay/neuter.

| Still, you have me puzzled. Not too long ago, you wrote that you
| could not even afford hot water

More than three years ago, I did post that I was upset about an anomalous
electric bill and indeed could not have afforded to keep paying such a high
bill every month. But I don't see how that is applicable to my current
situation, as at the time I was living alone and still had an electric water
heater. I got rid of that (and the older fridge) when the local electric
rates started skyrocketing.

| or regular kitty litter--you said you were looking for a substitute
| for litter. That does not bode well for a person to keep large numbers
| of cars.

I only have one car, and it's not even running ATM.

As to the litter issue, almost three years ago (again, before Dave's
arrival) I asked here about extending the life of clumping litter (not
asking what can be substituted for normal litter), and a few people
suggested using dirt, sawdust, paper or other substitutes.

I'm learning to streamline the caT expenses. Still, I estimate it is taking
on average at least $200 per month to cover their needs, and because of that
I have very little leftover for discretionary spending and yes, things would
be a lot easier financially if some of that were alleviated by
tax-deductible donations. That we are creating a legal structure for a
shelter I don't think ought to make me the butt of insults and distortions
of fact and accusations on ongoing cruelty.

"Pat" wrote in message
...

"MaryL" -OUT-THE-LITTER wrote


| It is normal procedure for a shelter or rescue group to
| require adopters to have the kitten spayed/neutered.

And just how is that policy enforced? Are adoption fees refunded following
the procedures? If there is to be an adoption fee - and there has to be,
to
discourage the careless and cruel - that alone will stop most people these
days and especially around here, where kittens are literally a dime a
dozen
because so many people REFUSE to spay/neuter.


Actually, I agree that it is much preferable to have the spay/neuter
procedures done before placing kittens or cats for adoption. Many groups
require a refundable deposit that will be returned after proof of
spay/neuter, but it really is a difficult policy to enforce. I only made
that comment because I thought you said in one of your messages that you had
delayed until now because of the cost. I may have misinterpreted, but I
thought that implied that the kittens were getting older--and it can be much
more difficult to place adult cats than to place kittens.

On a slightly different (but related) topic: I have sometimes told people
that Duffy was "the best $25.00 investment I ever made." Adoption fees at
the shelter where I found him are normally $125.00, but his were only $25.00
because he had previously been adopted, and therefore was already neutered.
He had been at the shelter for several months, so they really weren't
charging anything at all for his care. He was also examined by their vet
and given his routine injections before I could pick him up. They require a
potential adopter to wait 3 days so they can check references and have the
vet check. I think they do a very good job in placing animals, and I have
sent a few checks with my heartfelt "thank you" since then. Poor Duffy! As
soon as I left the shelter, I headed for my vet's clinic where I already had
an appointment for a more thorough examination because I also wanted to make
sure that Holly was protected from any possible health issues.

MaryL

MaryL wrote:

Cats seem to recover more quickly than we hoomins do, and they are often
active in a short period of time. But I cannot imagine putting a poor
little cat or kitten (beautiful creatures under *our* care) through that
procedure without providing pain medication. I'm not trying to
anthromorphize here, but I think it is legitimate to ask people to consider
whether they would want to go through a procedure without pain
medication--and, if not, then we should not ask it of our furbabies.

It's not anthropomorphism to acknowledge that, as fellow vertebrates,
cats have central nervous systems and experience pain just as we do.

Joyce

--
A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead.
-- Leo Rosten