Crane, Gaubster, PhilP

From: (Liz)

That's not exactly a complete history of the subject. The reason most pet
food
companies are avoiding ethoxyquin is because it's been given a bad rap. In
fact, did you know that vitamin e itself is preserved (in a lot of
instances)
w/ ethoyxquin? The same people that freak out over ethoxyquin don't have a
problem w/ foods "preserved w/ vitamin e"--when in fact those foods may
have
just as much ethoxyquin!

Ok, lets talk about concentration and half life. Suppose you feed your
cat 100g of food containing 75ppm of eq. That´s 75ppm of 100g which
gives you 7.5mg of eq daily. Suppose now that you give your cat a
daily tablet of vitamin E at 400mg preserved with eq at 75ppm (not
needed because vitamin E capsules are protected from oxygen by their
gelly shells). That would be 30 micrograms of eq, that is, 250 times
less than that same eq in the food. I do not know the half life of eq
but suppose most cats can eliminate 5mg/day. They would have eq build
up in their systems when fed eq but not when given vitamin E tablets
preserved with eq. I did not use a sci calculator for the math so I
hope the numbers are right but they shouldn´t be too off. One thing is
fact and proven: eq does build up in the liver of animals fed feeds
containing eq. Fatty liver disease *only* occurs in chicken fed
commercial feeds.

I've never heard of Eq in Vitamin E, and wonder why they would do that since
Vitamin E IS a preservative. I know the Vitamin E I use absolutely does not
have Eq in it.

As far as build up of Eq, what you say makes sense. Afterall, we know cats
don't metabolize as efficiently as other species. Why take a chance of having
something like Eq build up in your cat's body when you can feed foods that
don't have it?

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

(Liz) wrote:

Lots of breeders have reported problems
that they believed were caused by eq. Ok, if not by eq., then what
caused those problems? Corn? Rice? Any other ingredient in the food?


Gee, I don't know Liz so why don't you at least find out before making
assumptions?

One of the biggest threats to animal health may be the existence of
breeders.

-mhd

(Liz) wrote:

Lots of breeders have reported problems
that they believed were caused by eq. Ok, if not by eq., then what
caused those problems? Corn? Rice? Any other ingredient in the food?


Gee, I don't know Liz so why don't you at least find out before making
assumptions?

One of the biggest threats to animal health may be the existence of
breeders.

-mhd

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
Brilliant, Liz. Really brilliant...No, Liz, the damage caused by the
rumors
and scare tactics is what led to the *request* for a reduction... even
though not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness was *ever*
reported
at the lvels allowed....Its called humoring the paranoid and gullible
fanatics....

See what I mean? You only see what you want to see.


Yeah... *Reality*! LOL!


Like you're sure you can dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths in cats
with....
*WATER* ???? LOL!!!! Maybe your ridiculous notions are why you're not
in
the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!! LOL!!!

No Phil. I just changed sides. I got sick of the Machiavellic money
making strategies.

So you changed to the side with the scare tactics and innuendo instead!
Good career move! LOL!

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
Brilliant, Liz. Really brilliant...No, Liz, the damage caused by the
rumors
and scare tactics is what led to the *request* for a reduction... even
though not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness was *ever*
reported
at the lvels allowed....Its called humoring the paranoid and gullible
fanatics....

See what I mean? You only see what you want to see.


Yeah... *Reality*! LOL!


Like you're sure you can dissolve calcium oxalate uroliths in cats
with....
*WATER* ???? LOL!!!! Maybe your ridiculous notions are why you're not
in
the pharmaceutical industry anymore!!! LOL!!!

No Phil. I just changed sides. I got sick of the Machiavellic money
making strategies.

So you changed to the side with the scare tactics and innuendo instead!
Good career move! LOL!

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
That's not exactly a complete history of the subject. The reason most
pet food
companies are avoiding ethoxyquin is because it's been given a bad rap.
In
fact, did you know that vitamin e itself is preserved (in a lot of
instances)
w/ ethoyxquin? The same people that freak out over ethoxyquin don't
have a
problem w/ foods "preserved w/ vitamin e"--when in fact those foods may
have
just as much ethoxyquin!

Ok, lets talk about concentration and half life.

Here she goes again with her convoluted reasoning that makes 2 + 2 = 5!
LOL!

Watch this:

Suppose

plus

Suppose now

plus

but suppose

equals

fact and proven:

That's "Liz Logic"! ROTFL!

Your convoluted reasoning and self-reinforcing delusions *still* haven't
helped you produce a *single* case of ethoxyquin-related illness in a single
cat in the hundreds of millions of cats that ate ethoxyquin-preserved cat
food at the recommended levels for generations!!! *That* is *reality*...
....
If ethoxyquin was anywhere near as "dangerous" as your scare tactics and
innuendo imply, I'm sure many people are wondering why you've *failed*...and
*failed* and *failed* again to produce a *single* case of ethoxyquin-related
illness in the hundreds of millions of cats that have been eating foods
preserved with ethoxyquin for generations....

....and you wonder why your reasoning and conclusions are laughable and why
you have no credibility with anyone but other deluded au naturel fanatics!
LOL!



Why did you get out?

Got sick of the money-oriented mentality.

Yeah sure.... *Every* business has a money-oriented mentality otherwise they
wouldn't be in business!

My guess is you couldn't sell your ridiculous notions and absurd conclusions
to anyone who still had some electrical activity within their brain! LOL!

"Liz" wrote in message
om...
That's not exactly a complete history of the subject. The reason most
pet food
companies are avoiding ethoxyquin is because it's been given a bad rap.
In
fact, did you know that vitamin e itself is preserved (in a lot of
instances)
w/ ethoyxquin? The same people that freak out over ethoxyquin don't
have a
problem w/ foods "preserved w/ vitamin e"--when in fact those foods may
have
just as much ethoxyquin!

Ok, lets talk about concentration and half life.

Here she goes again with her convoluted reasoning that makes 2 + 2 = 5!
LOL!

Watch this:

Suppose

plus

Suppose now

plus

but suppose

equals

fact and proven:

That's "Liz Logic"! ROTFL!

Your convoluted reasoning and self-reinforcing delusions *still* haven't
helped you produce a *single* case of ethoxyquin-related illness in a single
cat in the hundreds of millions of cats that ate ethoxyquin-preserved cat
food at the recommended levels for generations!!! *That* is *reality*...
....
If ethoxyquin was anywhere near as "dangerous" as your scare tactics and
innuendo imply, I'm sure many people are wondering why you've *failed*...and
*failed* and *failed* again to produce a *single* case of ethoxyquin-related
illness in the hundreds of millions of cats that have been eating foods
preserved with ethoxyquin for generations....

....and you wonder why your reasoning and conclusions are laughable and why
you have no credibility with anyone but other deluded au naturel fanatics!
LOL!



Why did you get out?

Got sick of the money-oriented mentality.

Yeah sure.... *Every* business has a money-oriented mentality otherwise they
wouldn't be in business!

My guess is you couldn't sell your ridiculous notions and absurd conclusions
to anyone who still had some electrical activity within their brain! LOL!

I've never heard of Eq in Vitamin E, and wonder why they would do that since
Vitamin E IS a preservative. I know the Vitamin E I use absolutely does not
have Eq in it.

As far as build up of Eq, what you say makes sense. Afterall, we know cats
don't metabolize as efficiently as other species. Why take a chance of
having
something like Eq build up in your cat's body when you can feed foods that
don't have it?


Why do you think that Vitamin E is encapsulated? That's because it is NOT an
effective preservative. As far at ethoxyquin goes, I don't believe that it
"builds up" in a cat's system. That is a theory designed to push an agenda,
that I don't believe is based in fact.

I've never heard of Eq in Vitamin E, and wonder why they would do that since
Vitamin E IS a preservative. I know the Vitamin E I use absolutely does not
have Eq in it.

As far as build up of Eq, what you say makes sense. Afterall, we know cats
don't metabolize as efficiently as other species. Why take a chance of
having
something like Eq build up in your cat's body when you can feed foods that
don't have it?


Why do you think that Vitamin E is encapsulated? That's because it is NOT an
effective preservative. As far at ethoxyquin goes, I don't believe that it
"builds up" in a cat's system. That is a theory designed to push an agenda,
that I don't believe is based in fact.

..because of rumors, innuendo and scare tactics perpertrated by the au
naturel cult fanatics.

Phil, you sound like an old LP record repeating the same words over
and over again... Can´t you find other arguments instead of just
calling people au naturel cult fanatics?

If it is accurate, why not? As far as repeating the same thing over and over,
that's what your ilk do when it comes to spreading the fear factor.

I attacked it because it is a class C
substance (possible carcinogenic) and because I am *sure* fatty liver
disease is caused by these artificial antioxidants building up in the
liver.

"possible carcinogenic" Everything is "possibly" bad...but that doesn't make
it so and certainly not in levels that are "ok". As for fatty liver disease
your theory is a new one. Just because you are "sure" doesn't it make it the
case.

The vet board suggested pet food should have no
more than 75ppm

...because of complaints they received as a result the scare tactics and
rumors perpertrated by the au naturel cults and "natural "breeders...

Oh, so you´re saying they are stupid enough to buy those rumors if
those rumors were really just rumors?

No, but the public is and that's where the demand comes from...especially if
the public is duped by people on your side of the aisle.

.Even at that level *still* not a single case of ethoxyquin-related illness
or adverse effect was *ever* reported in a *single* cat in the of hundreds
of millions of cats that ate food preserved with ethoxyquin for
*generations*.

You only see what you *want* to see. Isn´t cancer the number one cause
of feline death?

Are you changing the subject--just answer the question. You can't, because
there isn't one single case, anywhere. Period.

Just an example of the general public's ignorance, vulnerability and
susceptibility to scare tactics, rumors and innuendo (Martin's keys to
selling books) perpetrated by a few fanatical extremists with an agenda....

You´re just too lazy to bother feeding your cats REAL food so you come
up with all that hostility to justify your laziness before your own
conscience.

Not really addressing his comment, are you?