More questions for Phil (or anyone who can help)

My cat was admitted AGAIN to hospital last night. It's now the 4th time in
as many months.

She is (or up until now been diagnosed a CRF cat).

The symptons last night were that she vomitted once. What alarmed me was the
excessive drooling an hour later. She had vomitted just the once 2 days ago
but seemed to be recovered by the next day.

On both these occasions, unlike the others, she had no hind leg weakness.
She has been on the potassuum supplement since last time she was ill,
although refusing to eat her food with it on (so I've had to dab it on her
paws).

The vet rang me last night to say her usual kidney blood tests were now
reading NORMAL. It has never shown normal since she was diagnosed last June.
She has been on a renal diet and 2.5mg of Fortekor daily.

After the last vomitting episode, we cut the dose to half a tablet daily
which I think may have helped.

The vet is extremely puzzled as to why her blood tests for her kidneys are
now normal as if he had not known her previous history he would never have
thought there was a renal problem.

Last night upon being admitted to hospital - her electrolytes, blood
pressure, all kidney blood tests were all normal as was her temperature.

However, she did have a very slow heart rate and they gave her atropine.

My questions are these -

1. Can a CRF cat recover fully from the renal problem as the blood tests
seem to indicate?

2. I have told the vet that before she was on the medication and special
renal diet we never had any of these episodes of vomitting and that I feel
she should go back to a normal diet and no medication to see how she goes.
He agrees. I know already to look for signs of excessive drinking/urination
so could switch her back again if this starts. I would appreciate your
thoughts on this.

3. What could be causing the slow heart rate? The vet is guessing that she
'may' have had a mini siezure but not a siezue in the conventional sense
where you can see it happen. I have asked him about testing her heart but he
says any test would not show WHY she's having these episode.

I am in the UK and now trying to find a cat specialist. I really need a
diagnosis as we cannot continue to treat the sypmtoms and not the cause.

She is an indoor cat with no access to any chemicals, unauthorised food
etc...

My partner has put forward one possible theory which I would also appreciate
your thoughts on - our cat is a rescue cat and we do not know her history
prior to last May. He is wondering if, before she was rescued, she could
have eaten something poisonous which damaged her kidneys or weakened them.
The diet and medication may have been all it needed for them to recover? By
continuing on the diet and medication now when she seems not to need it, is
it causing her these other problems?

Sorry this is so long.

Thanks

regards

Sarah

in article , sarah at
wrote on 3/18/05 2:42AM:

My cat was admitted AGAIN to hospital last night. It's now the 4th time in
as many months.

She is (or up until now been diagnosed a CRF cat).

The symptons last night were that she vomitted once. What alarmed me was the
excessive drooling an hour later. She had vomitted just the once 2 days ago
but seemed to be recovered by the next day.

On both these occasions, unlike the others, she had no hind leg weakness.
She has been on the potassuum supplement since last time she was ill,
although refusing to eat her food with it on (so I've had to dab it on her
paws).

The vet rang me last night to say her usual kidney blood tests were now
reading NORMAL. It has never shown normal since she was diagnosed last June.
She has been on a renal diet and 2.5mg of Fortekor daily.

After the last vomitting episode, we cut the dose to half a tablet daily
which I think may have helped.

The vet is extremely puzzled as to why her blood tests for her kidneys are
now normal as if he had not known her previous history he would never have
thought there was a renal problem.

Last night upon being admitted to hospital - her electrolytes, blood
pressure, all kidney blood tests were all normal as was her temperature.

However, she did have a very slow heart rate and they gave her atropine.

My questions are these -

1. Can a CRF cat recover fully from the renal problem as the blood tests
seem to indicate?

2. I have told the vet that before she was on the medication and special
renal diet we never had any of these episodes of vomitting and that I feel
she should go back to a normal diet and no medication to see how she goes.
He agrees. I know already to look for signs of excessive drinking/urination
so could switch her back again if this starts. I would appreciate your
thoughts on this.

3. What could be causing the slow heart rate? The vet is guessing that she
'may' have had a mini siezure but not a siezue in the conventional sense
where you can see it happen. I have asked him about testing her heart but he
says any test would not show WHY she's having these episode.

I am in the UK and now trying to find a cat specialist. I really need a
diagnosis as we cannot continue to treat the sypmtoms and not the cause.

She is an indoor cat with no access to any chemicals, unauthorised food
etc...

My partner has put forward one possible theory which I would also appreciate
your thoughts on - our cat is a rescue cat and we do not know her history
prior to last May. He is wondering if, before she was rescued, she could
have eaten something poisonous which damaged her kidneys or weakened them.
The diet and medication may have been all it needed for them to recover? By
continuing on the diet and medication now when she seems not to need it, is
it causing her these other problems?

Sorry this is so long.

Thanks

regards

Sarah


Eating something that causes damage is always possible. It's interesting
aobut the exessive drooling. Right away, I wondered if she ate something.
I'm sure it is a terrible worry. My best to you. Karen

The drooling could be related to dental disease and her teeth should be
thoroughly checked. Sometimes there can be serious problems that aren't
visible on the surface and can only be seen on xray. As to the low heart
rate, it probably has to do with the heart medication she's on for the
renal failure. I would take her off that since her kidney values are
looking good. It's quite possible that a health issue cause her to have
elevated kidney values and whatever it was resolved which in turn
brought the values back to normal.
In any case, I think you're wise to seek a specialist.

Megan



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Thanks for the replies. Still no news yet though.

The vet rang this morning and said she was brighter as she was a bit grumpy!
He has suggested X-rays today and I think, a scan.

I'm just waiting for the phone to ring with some update.

sarah

Well the vet has just phoned through the results - but unfortunately still
no definite diagnosis! I'm totally totally fed up with it all now. My nerves
are shot to pieces. Last night my partner and I were were even discussing
having her put to sleep!

Today, although sleepy from a sedative, she's back to being better again.
Until next time!

It would appear from the abdominal scan she has only one working kidney.
This kidney appears to be normal and functioning well. The other kidney is
shrivelled and calcified. He is not sure why this is - whether it was a
previous trauma or what.

The X-rays of her chest show a slight thickening of the heart wall but not
enough to give any cause for concern although he feels keeping her on the
Fortekor may be helping her. We have decided at home now that the vets are
merely guessing, happy to take the hundreds of pounds we are continuing to
pay as each crisis occurs - so we are going to take her off the Fortekor
and the renal diet and see how she fares.

In the absence of any other suggestions I feel it is all we can do. She was
not having this episodic vomitting and collapse before the Fortekor and the
opportunity for her to eat what she enjoys in terms of normal cat food may
just give her body chance to put on much needed weight and perhaps help her.

If it's the wrong thing to do then we'll never know I suppose. She seems
like she's on borrowed time.

She may as well enjoy her food at least.

a very unhappy sarah

"sarah" wrote in message
...
Well the vet has just phoned through the results - but unfortunately still
no definite diagnosis! I'm totally totally fed up with it all now. My
nerves
are shot to pieces. Last night my partner and I were were even discussing
having her put to sleep!

Today, although sleepy from a sedative, she's back to being better again.
Until next time!

It would appear from the abdominal scan she has only one working kidney.
This kidney appears to be normal and functioning well. The other kidney is
shrivelled and calcified. He is not sure why this is - whether it was a
previous trauma or what.

The X-rays of her chest show a slight thickening of the heart wall but not
enough to give any cause for concern although he feels keeping her on the
Fortekor may be helping her. We have decided at home now that the vets are
merely guessing, happy to take the hundreds of pounds we are continuing to
pay as each crisis occurs - so we are going to take her off the Fortekor
and the renal diet and see how she fares.

In the absence of any other suggestions I feel it is all we can do. She
was
not having this episodic vomitting and collapse before the Fortekor and
the
opportunity for her to eat what she enjoys in terms of normal cat food may
just give her body chance to put on much needed weight and perhaps help
her.

If it's the wrong thing to do then we'll never know I suppose. She seems
like she's on borrowed time.

She may as well enjoy her food at least.

a very unhappy sarah

Please do not stop the Fortekor suddenly, particularly in view of her
thickened heart. Her body could well have got used to it, so it's always
better to reduce heart meds gradually, plus in her case, she might actually
be benefiting from it.

If you can afford it, I'd recommend a visit to a veterinary cardiologist
(there is one in Kenilworth), to clarify the heart situation - heart disease
is very serious in cats but fortunately it is also usually very treatable.

HTH

Helen
--
The answers to 99.9% of your CRF questions can be found he
http://www.felinecrf.org

"sarah" wrote in message
...

In the absence of any other suggestions I feel it is all we can do. She
was
not having this episodic vomitting and collapse before the Fortekor and
the
opportunity for her to eat what she enjoys in terms of normal cat food may
just give her body chance to put on much needed weight and perhaps help
her.


Have you tried giving her pepcid-AC? We were giving it to one of our CRF
cats once a day to eliminate her vomiting. 1/4 of a tablet daily. I'd say
ask your vet about it, but I don't have a whole lot of faith in your vet.
Is there a vet in your area who has experience with cats who have kidney
damage?

Trish

Hi,

Can cats recover from chronic renal failure? No, but they can recover from
acute renal failure, which could occur as a result of
poisoning/intoxication. Anti-freeze would be a possibility. It is
sometimes difficult to distinguish ARF from CRF. We look for things like
weight loss prior to the diagnosis and anemia, which are indications of CRF.
ARF cats tend to have very high kidney enzymes that respond well to IV
fluids. It's possible your cat had ARF and has finally recovered.

If the kidney values are now normal, I wouldn't see a problem with
discontinuing the medication and monitoring for any changes in the
bloodwork.

The slow heart rate may be due to some kind of vagal nerve stimulation. The
atropine may help a little, but I don't think it's very reliable. You may
want to get an EKG done and have a cardiologist look at it. The potassium
and blood pressure were normal, so it's not those. Chest x-rays and an
echocardiogram are nice also.

Best wishes,
MK DVM

"Trish Dunphy" wrote in message
...

"sarah" wrote in message
...

In the absence of any other suggestions I feel it is all we can do. She
was
not having this episodic vomitting and collapse before the Fortekor and
the
opportunity for her to eat what she enjoys in terms of normal cat food
may
just give her body chance to put on much needed weight and perhaps help
her.


Have you tried giving her pepcid-AC? We were giving it to one of our CRF
cats once a day to eliminate her vomiting. 1/4 of a tablet daily. I'd
say
ask your vet about it, but I don't have a whole lot of faith in your vet.
Is there a vet in your area who has experience with cats who have kidney
damage?

Trish

Many thanks for the replies.

I went to collect my cat last night and spent about 15 mins with the vet. He
showed me the scans and x-rays and he actually spent time with me trying to
bottom out what was going on. He is wondering if she has a rare form of
epilepsy where she has a mild blackout which is not noticeable but which
affects the 'control' nerves in her brain - the nerves that control heart
rate.

The scan of her kidneys showed one kidney shrunken and calcified. The other
kidney appears ok although there is a very early indication that it 'may'
have a slight bit of calcium (or whatever the white bit was) in it.

Her heart x-ray just shows a slight thickening of the wall which the vet
feels is not relevant to her vomitting problem.

He has suggested keeping her on the Fortekor (I wanted to take her off it)
and putting her back onto normal food.

I have decided to keep her on the Fortekor (1/2 a tablet daily) as he is
certain it will be helping both heart and kidneys.

Apart from 4 shaved patches she is back to herself again with the added
bonus of now enjoying her food. I'm slightly reluctant to take her
completely off the renal diet so have been mixing half and half with the
Whiskas.

Already she is drinking more however so this may not work. I've put the
extra drinking down to the fact that she always comes back thirsty from
being in hospital but I'll closely monitor her and see how she goes. She
really does need to fatten up so I'm glad to see her tucking in instead of
picking.

The vet also did suggest referring her to a specialist but he feels that
unless they see her in an ill state they will probably be as much at a loss
as he is. Also, they are some distance away and when she is ill - she is too
ill for a long journey.

I'm loathe to put her through any more tests and always said I would not
subject her to lots of them. She's only had the ones she has 'cos she was
already very ill and we needed answers. I know we still need answers - but I
need her to settle down and recover again and enjoy what time she has left.

regards to all and thanks again

sarah

Quick question for Trish....

Did the Pepcid_AC work? How often was the cat vomitting? Was it periodically
or at certain times etc?

sarah