Steatitis

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Steve Gass wrote:

he's eating more like a carnivore should, rather than the "balanced diet" we've
always been told to feed him. It could be that the lack of real carnivore food
might have caused the anemia in the first place, which is the likely cause of
the gangrene.

I think you're absolutely right Steve. I come more and more to believe
that the crap we're lead to believe is good for our animals is causing
more ailments than we can possibly imagine. All the best to you and
Bubba. I know what you're going through. Hang in there.


Dee

Steve Gass wrote:

he's eating more like a carnivore should, rather than the "balanced diet"
we've
always been told to feed him. It could be that the lack of real carnivore
food
might have caused the anemia in the first place, which is the likely cause
of
the gangrene.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised, Steve. Good luck and healing purrs to Bubba.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

Steve Gass wrote:

he's eating more like a carnivore should, rather than the "balanced diet"
we've
always been told to feed him. It could be that the lack of real carnivore
food
might have caused the anemia in the first place, which is the likely cause
of
the gangrene.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised, Steve. Good luck and healing purrs to Bubba.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

After your "thanks all" I was afraid you had put your kitty to sleep,
glad you didn't. I believe he can recover from all his conditions
providing the vet is good and the food is adequate to correct his
anemia and glucose. How are those holes? Did the vet close them or
kept them open? I'm glad he did not develop an infection so far. My
choice would be to keep the holes open and wash three or four times a
day with a very dilute solution of oxygen peroxide. The more oxygen in
the holes, the faster it heals and less chance of infection. Is the
necrotic area too extensive? I'm cheering for you both!

After your "thanks all" I was afraid you had put your kitty to sleep,
glad you didn't. I believe he can recover from all his conditions
providing the vet is good and the food is adequate to correct his
anemia and glucose. How are those holes? Did the vet close them or
kept them open? I'm glad he did not develop an infection so far. My
choice would be to keep the holes open and wash three or four times a
day with a very dilute solution of oxygen peroxide. The more oxygen in
the holes, the faster it heals and less chance of infection. Is the
necrotic area too extensive? I'm cheering for you both!

In ,
S. Gass wrote:

*Our 12 year old male DSH Bubba has steatitis, possibly as a result of
*eating salmon & tuna flavored food from a well-known manufacturer. The

That's very odd.

Feline nutritional steatitis is a well-described, and today, rarely seen,
condition.


Historically, people would feed cats a canned-tuna-only diet, and cats fed
that way could get get this disease - the high unsaturated fat content of
the all-tuna diet (or other inappropriate, unbalanced diet, of course) is
the problem. The high amount of polyunsaturated fats overwhelms the normal
antioxidant abilities of vit E and selenium to scavenge free radicals,
free radicals cause peroxidation of lipid membranes, leading to sort of a
cascading problem, where walls of cells are broken down, causing a lot of
necrosis of fat throughout the body, abdomen, subcutis, etc. The result
is, you get this very distinctive gross and histologic appearance. For
pathology buffs.... because you have all this necrosis, and sort of self
digestion, you get a secondary inflammatory infiltrate of neutrophils and
macrophages, and
characteristic deposition of ceroid, a type of lipofuscin, whcih is a type
of broken down membrane. The ceroid is acid fast, so you can stain for it.

We still (obviously as per the original post) occasionally see this in
cats but now it is more often seen in waterfowl. There was a big outbreak
in herons at the SD zoo which had been scavenging on fish left at the
docks. Anyway, in the cat, this causes a distinct looking nodular yellow
green lesion, and the lesions smell fishy. also seen in mink and swine.
it's also very very painful. In cats the skin usually looks kind of ripply
and you can feel nodules in abdomen, and cat may be crying out from pain


*The vets won't be in until Monday. Should I try to clean it in the
*meantime, or just leave it alone? I didn't catch the name of the pads
*they gave me, but I think they're saturated with an antiseptic
*cleaning solution.

I hope your vet has helped you already, since it is now Wednesday. I'll
skim down and see if you reported back! Sorry I didn't see this sooner....

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

In ,
S. Gass wrote:

*Our 12 year old male DSH Bubba has steatitis, possibly as a result of
*eating salmon & tuna flavored food from a well-known manufacturer. The

That's very odd.

Feline nutritional steatitis is a well-described, and today, rarely seen,
condition.


Historically, people would feed cats a canned-tuna-only diet, and cats fed
that way could get get this disease - the high unsaturated fat content of
the all-tuna diet (or other inappropriate, unbalanced diet, of course) is
the problem. The high amount of polyunsaturated fats overwhelms the normal
antioxidant abilities of vit E and selenium to scavenge free radicals,
free radicals cause peroxidation of lipid membranes, leading to sort of a
cascading problem, where walls of cells are broken down, causing a lot of
necrosis of fat throughout the body, abdomen, subcutis, etc. The result
is, you get this very distinctive gross and histologic appearance. For
pathology buffs.... because you have all this necrosis, and sort of self
digestion, you get a secondary inflammatory infiltrate of neutrophils and
macrophages, and
characteristic deposition of ceroid, a type of lipofuscin, whcih is a type
of broken down membrane. The ceroid is acid fast, so you can stain for it.

We still (obviously as per the original post) occasionally see this in
cats but now it is more often seen in waterfowl. There was a big outbreak
in herons at the SD zoo which had been scavenging on fish left at the
docks. Anyway, in the cat, this causes a distinct looking nodular yellow
green lesion, and the lesions smell fishy. also seen in mink and swine.
it's also very very painful. In cats the skin usually looks kind of ripply
and you can feel nodules in abdomen, and cat may be crying out from pain


*The vets won't be in until Monday. Should I try to clean it in the
*meantime, or just leave it alone? I didn't catch the name of the pads
*they gave me, but I think they're saturated with an antiseptic
*cleaning solution.

I hope your vet has helped you already, since it is now Wednesday. I'll
skim down and see if you reported back! Sorry I didn't see this sooner....

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:29:58 +0000, buglady wrote:

"Steve Gass" wrote in message
news
Well. We just got back from our new vet, and it was quite an eye-opening
experience
........I am so relieved you found a more responsive vet. BTW I did run
across one reference WRT gangrene (a particular kind) which mentioned
something about steroid abuse, so I wonder if the steroids made the situation
worse.

Yes, this vet is exceptional, although Bubba's prognosis is quite poor. He is
too anemic to be able to survive the surgery without a transfusion, and the
cause of the anemia is not yet known. Liver and kidney functions are normal, but
there is a good chance of a bone marrow problem or cancerous process. The vet is
having one last test done to see if the anemia might be indicative of a
treatable condition - sorry, being outside my realm, I didn't fully understand
the specifics. He doesn't seem to suspect diabetes as a cause. It is very
unlikely that the anemia is related to diet, because it has worsened despite
Bubba's new diet.

I don't know what to think about the steroid use, although the vet doesn't seem
to consider it a potential cause of the gangrene. In fact, he mentioned that
steroids, specifically prednisone, can be used to treat anemia. I've been giving
Bubba 1/2 cc of dex-something every 2-3 days, depending on how he's been
feeling. Without steroids his discomfort was obvious, and the first vet had said
that he needed it, and that it "should be safe". Then again . . .

I've been giving him 1cc of amoxicillin daily throughout, even after I was told,
a couple of weeks ago, that it wasn't really necessary because there was "no
sign of infection."

I do believe that this all started as steatitis, which was cleared up weeks ago.
The anemia prevented proper healing, though, so the area died. I try not to
dwell on what might have been, had I known he was anemic.

At this point, if the test shows that the anemia might be treatable, and if
Bubba survives the transfusion and surgery, he might live long enough to treat
the anemia and recover to the point of living a comfortable life. I can't say
that I'm optimistic, but at least we'll be able make a decision based on a full
understanding of the situation.

Steve

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:29:58 +0000, buglady wrote:

"Steve Gass" wrote in message
news
Well. We just got back from our new vet, and it was quite an eye-opening
experience
........I am so relieved you found a more responsive vet. BTW I did run
across one reference WRT gangrene (a particular kind) which mentioned
something about steroid abuse, so I wonder if the steroids made the situation
worse.

Yes, this vet is exceptional, although Bubba's prognosis is quite poor. He is
too anemic to be able to survive the surgery without a transfusion, and the
cause of the anemia is not yet known. Liver and kidney functions are normal, but
there is a good chance of a bone marrow problem or cancerous process. The vet is
having one last test done to see if the anemia might be indicative of a
treatable condition - sorry, being outside my realm, I didn't fully understand
the specifics. He doesn't seem to suspect diabetes as a cause. It is very
unlikely that the anemia is related to diet, because it has worsened despite
Bubba's new diet.

I don't know what to think about the steroid use, although the vet doesn't seem
to consider it a potential cause of the gangrene. In fact, he mentioned that
steroids, specifically prednisone, can be used to treat anemia. I've been giving
Bubba 1/2 cc of dex-something every 2-3 days, depending on how he's been
feeling. Without steroids his discomfort was obvious, and the first vet had said
that he needed it, and that it "should be safe". Then again . . .

I've been giving him 1cc of amoxicillin daily throughout, even after I was told,
a couple of weeks ago, that it wasn't really necessary because there was "no
sign of infection."

I do believe that this all started as steatitis, which was cleared up weeks ago.
The anemia prevented proper healing, though, so the area died. I try not to
dwell on what might have been, had I known he was anemic.

At this point, if the test shows that the anemia might be treatable, and if
Bubba survives the transfusion and surgery, he might live long enough to treat
the anemia and recover to the point of living a comfortable life. I can't say
that I'm optimistic, but at least we'll be able make a decision based on a full
understanding of the situation.

Steve

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:54:06 +0000, Hillary Israeli wrote:
causing a lot of necrosis of fat
throughout the body, abdomen, subcutis, etc. The result is, you get this very
distinctive gross and histologic appearance.

Thank you Hillary - this has been a very important clue. I've known that
necrosis is often associated with steatitis, and have assumed that's what I've
been seeing. I don't know the difference between necrosis and gangrene, but
assume that there is a distinction.

Anyway, a little research has turned up the fact that one of the symptoms of gas
gangrene is _acute anemia_! If Bubba developed a necrotic situation as a result
of the steatitis, in an area where there isn't much blood flow to begin with,
then it seems to me that it could easily progress to full-blown gangrene,
resulting in acute anemia, which is now the primary concern.

Without being familiar with the history of this condition, and probably having
little experience with steatitis, this vet, as good as he is, is assuming that
the gangrene is a result of the anemia rather than, quite possibly, the other
way around.

He said that a transfusion would probably get Bubba through the surgery, but it
would be pointless if Bubba isn't producing red blood cells properly due to a
serious underlying condition. I'm going to press for the surgery regardless of
the last test result. A ray of hope . . .

Steve