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Hmmmm… I have come to doubt this individual’s understanding of what a “Feral” cat actually is. There are, typically four types of cats seen in outdoor settings, broad brush:
a) Housecats that are allowed outdoors – common enough. In some areas, outdoor access is a requirement to keeping a cat, really. Is it always a good idea? Not hardly! b) Stray cats – these are cats that once had a home, but for any number of reasons no longer do so. c) “Alley” Cats – these are cats that never had a home, but live peripheral to people and depend on people to survive. They may do so by scrounging, hunting, or by being fed. An excellent example of much appreciated Alley Cats would be the street cats of Istanbul. My wife and I spent some time in Istanbul, and were promptly adopted by a clowder of about 4 cats that decided we were 'good people'. No food involved or required. We did put out water, however. https://vimeo.com/87816089 All of the above come in various degrees of shyness, defensiveness and distrust, but the bottom line is that they are as dependent on people as any given housecat for the most part. Stray and Alley cats tend to live relatively short lives, are subject to many diseases and other problems, but their survival rate would be much lower without people. And, all of the above will, eventually, adapt to living closely with people (in a ‘home’), over time. Some, even (at least the three I have taken on) will even become aggressively affectionate. d) d) Feral cats – these are cats that have never had a ‘people’ home, probably for generations if ever. They do not depend on people. They do not eat ‘people’ or ‘people-source’ food, even if offered. They do not eat carrion unless they killed it themselves. They want about as much to do with people as does the typical Lynx, Mountain Lion or similar. Feral cats live an average of over ten (10) years, mostly based on heavy attrition during the first six months of life. Once about a year old, they tend to make an average of about fifteen years. They have the same general attitude to being captured and ‘tamed’ as would that Lynx or Mountain Lion. Not to suggest that they cannot adapt, but the attitude is feral. These guys might take years, if at all, to be gentle enough to handle. And given a chance, they may simply abscond. As would that Lynx or Mountain Lion. So, be exceedingly careful when characterizing any animal as “feral”. It is not a simple descriptive, but a very specific term. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#2
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On 26 Jul 2017, wrote:
d) d) Feral cats – these are cats that have never had a ‘people’ home, probably for generations if ever. So, be exceedingly careful when characterizing any animal as “feral”. It is not a simple descriptive, but a very specific term. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feral ] 1. A domesticated animal that has returned to the wild; an animal, ] particularly a domesticated animal, living independently of humans. Indeed, the Oxford English Dictionary confirms even, "Now often applied to animals or plants that have lapsed into a wild from a domesticated condition." So, be exceedingly careful when assuming that your definition is the only appropriate or acceptable one. Also note that those of us reading are quite able to form our own opinions of John Doe without your telling us what to think. -- Mark |
#3
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral
First and Second a) definition have nothing to do with formerly domesticated. Common usage is often apart from base meaning, put another way, a term abused becomes muddled at the cost of accuracy. "Feral" is a specific term that has lost some of its edge due to misuse. So, let's just stick with "like a Lynx or Mountain Lion" as context rather than trying to force the exception. Keep in mind that there are very nearly 300,000 distinct words in the English Language, including obsolete words. Compounds and derivatives bring this to very nearly 1,000,000. The average American uses about 5,000. Any wonder why so many of those few that are used are abused? As to "Opinion": “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ― Harlan Ellison Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
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What a coincidence. Merriam-Webster was the first dictionary
publisher to accept my definition of the word "save" as advertising uses it every day all day. BUY NOW AND SAVE!!! SAVE $20 SAVE MONEY I got a confirmation letter from Oxford University Press and they ended up publishing it 10 years later. Every other major dictionary has published my definition of "save". Anytime the original poster wants to lecture me on semantics, it should think about that. All day every day. Language is for communication, that is all. If the OP has trouble understanding someone it can ask for clarification. Really, the OP needs to get out more. On the open Internet in busy discussion with people from all different countries, one cannot be picky. Thanks to the other reply author. -- pfjw aol.com wrote: X-Received: by 10.101.76.194 with SMTP id n2mr580900pgt.125.1501073684103; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 05:54:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.31.59.134 with SMTP id i128mr2858vka.29.1501073684012; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 05:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!t6no1115278itb.0!news-out.google.com!g57ni430qtg.1!nntp.google.com!s6no2 66518qtc.1!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.g ooglegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 05:54:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: 87eft3s7gx.fsf ixod.org Complaints-To: groups-abuse google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=100.11.134.66; posting-account=tQE80AoAAACYibCqNWmwmvQ2q1XctZSS NNTP-Posting-Host: 100.11.134.66 References: b434b324-c7d6-417b-b16c-e06948f75d8e googlegroups.com 87eft3s7gx.fsf ixod.org User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: 79613a55-1db0-4f08-a70e-5beedfe2ad85 googlegroups.com Subject: John Doe From: pfjw aol.com Injection-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:54:44 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:12468 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral First and Second a) definition have nothing to do with formerly domesticated. Common usage is often apart from base meaning, put another way, a term abused becomes muddled at the cost of accuracy. "Feral" is a specific term that has lost some of its edge due to misuse. So, let's just stick with "like a Lynx or Mountain Lion" as context rather than trying to force the exception. Keep in mind that there are very nearly 300,000 distinct words in the English Language, including obsolete words. Compounds and derivatives bring this to very nearly 1,000,000. The average American uses about 5,000. Any wonder why so many of those few that are used are abused? As to "Opinion": oYou are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. Harlan Ellison Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
#6
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Mark Carroll wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
On 26 Jul 2017, wrote: d) d) Feral cats – these are cats that have never had a ‘people’ home, probably for generations if ever. So, be exceedingly careful when characterizing any animal as “feral”. It is not a simple descriptive, but a very specific term. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feral ] 1. A domesticated animal that has returned to the wild; an animal, ] particularly a domesticated animal, living independently of humans. Indeed, the Oxford English Dictionary confirms even, "Now often applied to animals or plants that have lapsed into a wild from a domesticated condition." So, be exceedingly careful when assuming that your definition is the only appropriate or acceptable one. Also note that those of us reading are quite able to form our own opinions of John Doe without your telling us what to think. -- Mark Correct Mark, though I don't have John Doe's message here. I joined a cat rescue message group some years back thinking I might be able to help with harder case semi-ferals and ferals. I'd been doing cat rescue fostering for 35 years by then. Semi-feral is a rescue term here used for 'had human interaction likely but has been living wild an estimated 4 years or more'. Many colony cats and barn cats fit loosely in that area. Peter is trying to define those as strays or alley cats. No skin off my nose if he wants to do so, but he will mismatch with common use of rescue organizations and the general public if so. When put up for adoption, tend to be called 'Alley Cat' and seen plenty called 'Diamond in the rough' if they were minimally impacted and adapted/re-adapted well to people. They aren't allowed to list them as feral here for adoption (I do not know why, possibly impressions like Peter has?). I can tell you the story of Daisy-chan if interested. It shows the difference that Peter doesnt grasp. -- |
#7
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The poster preventing itself from seeing someone else's posts
is useless and appears to be more of a game, as if playing with an imaginary killfile friend. People who proclaim to killfile someone end up replying to that person's posts, as if their imaginary kill file friend comes and goes. The only half decent kill file is ignoring the thread branch started by the other person instead of just ignoring individual posts. But that can be done most easily with a simple "ignore thread branch" function. The only effective filter on USENET is "ignore thread branch" done on a case-by-case basis. If mutual blocking were available on USENET, I would happily put someone who objects to my posts out of their misery. Trolls who can be excluded from conversations will think twice before trolling. Hopefully mutual blocking will take hold on Internet discussion forums even though never on USENET. Apparently mutual blocking is implemented on Twitter and/or Facebook. -- "cshenk" cshenk1 cox.net wrote: Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca1.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer1.nntp.dca1.giga news.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 18:16:41 -0500 From: "cshenk" cshenk1 cox.net Subject: John Doe Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: b434b324-c7d6-417b-b16c-e06948f75d8e googlegroups.com User-Agent: XanaNews/1.18.1.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: TaCdnbzd0tfEiuDEnZ2dnUU7-fHNnZ2d giganews.com Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 18:16:41 -0500 Lines: 68 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-5qO66GHQ5a2u5uZdvOOL7Tvvmn+d5Gn16Z5KcH+meefrTLfhtv Uj2swPOfqNBO/2yLwEAnMg6EjW6KS!3a0IAvE1Yx8Yo1sTMPVTGc+QoF8MH4Dxd Os5iHfNn4N40/k0etlh1fMA5bZqPgr74FbF5TJgYVg= X-Complaints-To: abuse giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4554 Xref: news.eternal-september.org rec.pets.cats.health+behav:12470 pfjw aol.com wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: Hmmmm I have come to doubt this individual Ts understanding of what a oFeral cat actually is. There are, typically four types of cats seen in outdoor settings, broad brush: a) Housecats that are allowed outdoors " common enough. In some areas, outdoor access is a requirement to keeping a cat, really. Is it always a good idea? Not hardly! b) Stray cats " these are cats that once had a home, but for any number of reasons no longer do so. c) oAlley Cats " these are cats that never had a home, but live peripheral to people and depend on people to survive. They may do so by scrounging, hunting, or by being fed. An excellent example of much appreciated Alley Cats would be the street cats of Istanbul. My wife and I spent some time in Istanbul, and were promptly adopted by a clowder of about 4 cats that decided we were 'good people'. No food involved or required. We did put out water, however. https://vimeo.com/87816089 All of the above come in various degrees of shyness, defensiveness and distrust, but the bottom line is that they are as dependent on people as any given housecat for the most part. Stray and Alley cats tend to live relatively short lives, are subject to many diseases and other problems, but their survival rate would be much lower without people. And, all of the above will, eventually, adapt to living closely with people (in a ~home T), over time. Some, even (at least the three I have taken on) will even become aggressively affectionate. d) d) Feral cats " these are cats that have never had a ~people T home, probably for generations if ever. They do not depend on people. They do not eat ~people T or ~people-source T food, even if offered. They do not eat carrion unless they killed it themselves. They want about as much to do with people as does the typical Lynx, Mountain Lion or similar. Feral cats live an average of over ten (10) years, mostly based on heavy attrition during the first six months of life. Once about a year old, they tend to make an average of about fifteen years. They have the same general attitude to being captured and ~tamed T as would that Lynx or Mountain Lion. Not to suggest that they cannot adapt, but the attitude is feral. These guys might take years, if at all, to be gentle enough to handle. And given a chance, they may simply abscond. As would that Lynx or Mountain Lion. So, be exceedingly careful when characterizing any animal as oferal . It is not a simple descriptive, but a very specific term. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Peter, I assume 'John Doe' is someone in my killfile for spamming or something. He must have said something to spark this. Either way, English is not a precise language, no matter how much you may wish it. While the word 'Feral' is often mis-attributed, it's not the black and white you make it out to be in real use. I've seen people try to be so specific so as to rule out anyone ever owning/taming a feral as by their definition, it is part of their rules to be a feral that it can't be done. In fact though, those who claim that just do not have the experience to do it and also tend to think 'all ferals are alike' (they aren't, they are as different as home raised are where one is a lap kitty and the other is aloof). -- |
#8
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On 30 Jul 2017, John Doe wrote:
The only half decent kill file is ignoring the thread branch started by the other person instead of just ignoring individual posts. But that can be done most easily with a simple "ignore thread branch" function. In fairness, while I concur regarding its desirability, in many newsreaders such a function is not easily found and employed. -- Mark |
#9
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Mark Carroll wrote:
John Doe wrote: The only half decent kill file is ignoring the thread branch started by the other person instead of just ignoring individual posts. But that can be done most easily with a simple "ignore thread branch" function. In fairness, while I concur regarding its desirability, in many newsreaders such a function is not easily found and employed. Forte including that function in Agent 4 is the reason I bought it. But it is also available in Xnews that I am still using even though now I also have Agent 8. I suppose it is not available in Google Groups. The reason Google destroyed the archive occurs to me now, probably because it goes against Google's need for people to use its commercial search engine. They are so smart. |
#10
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Mark, Mr. Schenk:
Two things: I did state that if one wishes to dilute the value of words, us Lynx or Mountain Lion to understand the point. Then, consider William of Occam - "semi-feral" is neither. Neither semi (anything) nor feral (anything). Answer one question, carefully: Were you to find/trap a genuine European Wild Cat under your control, would you attempt to 'gentle it' into a house pet? That is a yes/no question. Once answered, please apply that answer to the next actual Feral you encounter. They are NOT, in any way, shape, form or after however much wishful thinking, anything like any sort of barn cat, stray cat, homeless cat, nor any other sort of human-interactive cat at any level, however removed. Full stop. Please answer. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
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