Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..

In , Laura R.
wrote:

| All I want to know is *why* she insists upon declawing her cat,

Nicole let the real reason slip. "She's going to scratch the babies".
IOW, she's *scared* of a cat with claws.

| and *why* she refuses to consider the other options.

Everything else is just rationalization.

[De-jeopardied]

In nk.net, "Nicole"
wrote:
| "Arjun Ray" wrote in message
| ...

| Do you have the balls to say:
|
| "Declawing is the amputation of the toe bones that cats walk on. The
| bone has to come off because the claw grows out of it. The result is an
| unnatural posture as the cat turns its wrists to distribute the pressure
| of walking over the other bones in its paws. The procedure is reliably
| painful enough that declaw post-ops are routinely used to study the
| effectiveness of painkilling medications and pain treatment protocols.
| I will ignore the evidence that declawing can make a biter or couch
| wetter out of my cat. There is no medical or health benefit to the cat
| whatsoever but still I will have this done, and I am very glad that I
| live somewhere where neither the prevailing laws nor the professional
| ethics of veterinarians stand in the way of my desire to mutilate an
| innocent kitten."
|
| Well, do you have the balls?

| I do have the balls to say

Wrong answer. You've been given the chance the show that you have the
balls to acknowledge FACTS. Here you are changing the subject again.

| that my husband has had cats before which were declawed and they were
| in great health.

Then ask your husband to have the balls on your behalf and post an
acknowledgement of the FACTS.

| Do you people really think that you are going to get your point across
| by BASHING and being ignorant??

You're the one claiming to have the balls to acknowledge FACTS.

Put up or shut up.

[De-jeopardied]

In nk.net, "Nicole"
wrote:
| "Arjun Ray" wrote in message
| ...

| Do you have the balls to say:
|
| "Declawing is the amputation of the toe bones that cats walk on. The
| bone has to come off because the claw grows out of it. The result is an
| unnatural posture as the cat turns its wrists to distribute the pressure
| of walking over the other bones in its paws. The procedure is reliably
| painful enough that declaw post-ops are routinely used to study the
| effectiveness of painkilling medications and pain treatment protocols.
| I will ignore the evidence that declawing can make a biter or couch
| wetter out of my cat. There is no medical or health benefit to the cat
| whatsoever but still I will have this done, and I am very glad that I
| live somewhere where neither the prevailing laws nor the professional
| ethics of veterinarians stand in the way of my desire to mutilate an
| innocent kitten."
|
| Well, do you have the balls?

| I do have the balls to say

Wrong answer. You've been given the chance the show that you have the
balls to acknowledge FACTS. Here you are changing the subject again.

| that my husband has had cats before which were declawed and they were
| in great health.

Then ask your husband to have the balls on your behalf and post an
acknowledgement of the FACTS.

| Do you people really think that you are going to get your point across
| by BASHING and being ignorant??

You're the one claiming to have the balls to acknowledge FACTS.

Put up or shut up.

Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/ the
other person's opinions.

Btw - I top-posted, on purpose, just to give you the chance to insult me for
my lack of Usenet protocol & for using OE. :-p

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , Laura R.
wrote:

| Nobody's advice has been discredited. However, your claimed concern
| for the welfare of your cat has been. Not because you consider
| declawing, but because you refuse to consider any other option or
| provide reason as to why you've dismissed other options.

Because she's scrounging for excuses. This will consist of "favorable"
opinions. She has no interest in facts, or advice she doesn't want to
hear. Say the "wrong" thing and she'll report you! Check these out (I
have no qualms posting the email of animal abusers):

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Message-ID: 004d01c344e3$77251610$9e9850d8@D5F77W21
Reply-To: "Nicole Johnson"
From: "Nicole Johnson"
To:
References: nk.net

Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:56:45 -0500
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Do you know you know what I think is really hilarious - instead of
trying to
INFORM me on what you think, you only plan to try to offend and not AID.
When someone asks for help, a civilized person would offer help, not
insults.

Get a life.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arjun Ray"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:28 AM
Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..


In nk.net, "Nicole
Johnson" wrote:

| 3. Declawing...Yeah, I'm sure you are all going to hate me for it,

Do you think it's appropriate to hate ignorant and lazy people?

| but it's getting done. She's an indoor cat

Irrelevant.

| and I'm afraid that she's going to scratch the babies.

How did you, as someone who has *no* experience with cats, arrive at the
conclusion that "she's going to scratch the babies"?

Made your mind up in advance, didn't you?

| What age do vets usually recommend the procedure?

Depends on where you are. In any civilized location, vets recommend
against the procedure. if you're in some redneck backwoods, the vet may
do it the moment you walk in the door.

| I have more questions,

Please stop.

Your best course of action is to visit your local shelter, and trade in
the kitten you found for a declawed cat. Don't worry, there will be
plenty of those available, thanks to people just as ignorant as you.
But this way, you don't have to mutilate *another* cat. If you insist
on having a cat and abusing a cat, you might as well get a cat that has
been abused already.

That's a win/win for everyone, including the kitten, who no will have
the chance to find a loving home.


==[2]==
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Message-ID: 000a01c344f2$b64fe6d0$f49f50d8@D5F77W21
Reply-To: "Nicole Johnson"
From: "Nicole Johnson"
To: "Arjun Ray"
References: nk.net

004d01c344e3$77251610$9e9850d8@D5F77W21

Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:46:11 -0500
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I have reported you to my mail service as a hate mail sender. Please
refrain from ever mailing me again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arjun Ray"
To: "Nicole Johnson"
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:36 PM
Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..


"Nicole Johnson" wrote:

| Do you know you know what I think is really hilarious

I can't take what you "think" seriously until you demonstrate an at
least
minimal ability to think.

You could have addressed the information provided. Instead, you elected
to change the subject, with silly talk of bible thumpers persecuting
Jews
and whatnot.

| instead of trying to INFORM me on what you think,

What I think is irrelevant. What I know, and you demonstrably don't,
are
the facts of declawing.

*You* are the one to have talked about having balls. Well, do you have
the balls to acknowledge facts?

| you only plan to try to offend and not AID.

I already gave you my advice. Trade in the kitten for an already
declawed
cat. The shelter will have the knowledge and resources to care for a
pre-weaned kitten (which includes socialization with other cats to learn
basic things such as proper grooming and claw control), and will be
happy
to adopt an otherwise unadoptable cat to you.

| When someone asks for help, a civilized person would offer help, not
| insults.

"Put up or shut up" is an insult?

| Get a life.

Get a clue.


:ar

--
Netiquette Pointers:
http://www.digital-web.com/tutorials..._1999-12.shtml
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post
http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/ the
other person's opinions.

Btw - I top-posted, on purpose, just to give you the chance to insult me for
my lack of Usenet protocol & for using OE. :-p

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , Laura R.
wrote:

| Nobody's advice has been discredited. However, your claimed concern
| for the welfare of your cat has been. Not because you consider
| declawing, but because you refuse to consider any other option or
| provide reason as to why you've dismissed other options.

Because she's scrounging for excuses. This will consist of "favorable"
opinions. She has no interest in facts, or advice she doesn't want to
hear. Say the "wrong" thing and she'll report you! Check these out (I
have no qualms posting the email of animal abusers):

==[1]==
Received: by bsd4.nyct.net (mbox aray)
(with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13)
Mon Jul 7 20:19:17 2003)
X-From_: Mon Jul 7 19:57:15 2003
Return-Path:
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for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:57:06 -0700
Message-ID: 004d01c344e3$77251610$9e9850d8@D5F77W21
Reply-To: "Nicole Johnson"
From: "Nicole Johnson"
To:
References: nk.net

Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:56:45 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Do you know you know what I think is really hilarious - instead of
trying to
INFORM me on what you think, you only plan to try to offend and not AID.
When someone asks for help, a civilized person would offer help, not
insults.

Get a life.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arjun Ray"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:28 AM
Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..


In nk.net, "Nicole
Johnson" wrote:

| 3. Declawing...Yeah, I'm sure you are all going to hate me for it,

Do you think it's appropriate to hate ignorant and lazy people?

| but it's getting done. She's an indoor cat

Irrelevant.

| and I'm afraid that she's going to scratch the babies.

How did you, as someone who has *no* experience with cats, arrive at the
conclusion that "she's going to scratch the babies"?

Made your mind up in advance, didn't you?

| What age do vets usually recommend the procedure?

Depends on where you are. In any civilized location, vets recommend
against the procedure. if you're in some redneck backwoods, the vet may
do it the moment you walk in the door.

| I have more questions,

Please stop.

Your best course of action is to visit your local shelter, and trade in
the kitten you found for a declawed cat. Don't worry, there will be
plenty of those available, thanks to people just as ignorant as you.
But this way, you don't have to mutilate *another* cat. If you insist
on having a cat and abusing a cat, you might as well get a cat that has
been abused already.

That's a win/win for everyone, including the kitten, who no will have
the chance to find a loving home.


==[2]==
Received: by bsd4.nyct.net (mbox aray)
(with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13)
Mon Jul 7 21:49:22 2003)
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Message-ID: 000a01c344f2$b64fe6d0$f49f50d8@D5F77W21
Reply-To: "Nicole Johnson"
From: "Nicole Johnson"
To: "Arjun Ray"
References: nk.net

004d01c344e3$77251610$9e9850d8@D5F77W21

Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:46:11 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have reported you to my mail service as a hate mail sender. Please
refrain from ever mailing me again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arjun Ray"
To: "Nicole Johnson"
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:36 PM
Subject: Dog lover turned kitten mother, LOTS of questions..


"Nicole Johnson" wrote:

| Do you know you know what I think is really hilarious

I can't take what you "think" seriously until you demonstrate an at
least
minimal ability to think.

You could have addressed the information provided. Instead, you elected
to change the subject, with silly talk of bible thumpers persecuting
Jews
and whatnot.

| instead of trying to INFORM me on what you think,

What I think is irrelevant. What I know, and you demonstrably don't,
are
the facts of declawing.

*You* are the one to have talked about having balls. Well, do you have
the balls to acknowledge facts?

| you only plan to try to offend and not AID.

I already gave you my advice. Trade in the kitten for an already
declawed
cat. The shelter will have the knowledge and resources to care for a
pre-weaned kitten (which includes socialization with other cats to learn
basic things such as proper grooming and claw control), and will be
happy
to adopt an otherwise unadoptable cat to you.

| When someone asks for help, a civilized person would offer help, not
| insults.

"Put up or shut up" is an insult?

| Get a life.

Get a clue.


:ar

--
Netiquette Pointers:
http://www.digital-web.com/tutorials..._1999-12.shtml
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post
http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

"Laura R." wrote in message
.net...
circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Cathy Friedmann ) said,
Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/
the
other person's opinions.

Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that
s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them. I'm
not trying to enter into this particular fray, I'm just pointing out
that if you read the whole post, you'll see that that is just what
Nicole did.

Laura

I read the whole post, & no, I don't agree w/ her decision to do the abuse
report, although I've found him to be, in truth, quite obnoxious. AR
*could've* made known her actions, w/out actually posting her PEM.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Laura R." wrote in message
.net...
circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
Cathy Friedmann ) said,
Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude, no matter your gripe w/
the
other person's opinions.

Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that
s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them. I'm
not trying to enter into this particular fray, I'm just pointing out
that if you read the whole post, you'll see that that is just what
Nicole did.

Laura

I read the whole post, & no, I don't agree w/ her decision to do the abuse
report, although I've found him to be, in truth, quite obnoxious. AR
*could've* made known her actions, w/out actually posting her PEM.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

In , Laura R.
wrote:
| circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
| Cathy Friedmann ) said,

| Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude,

Yep.

| no matter your gripe w/ the other person's opinions.

She's the one who emailed me first. When I replied, she called it "hate
mail". Well, now she can know that she won't be receiving any more mail
from me.

| Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that
| s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them.

That part was hilarious.

In , Laura R.
wrote:
| circa Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:37:43 -0400, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav,
| Cathy Friedmann ) said,

| Posting someone's PEM is in poor taste & rude,

Yep.

| no matter your gripe w/ the other person's opinions.

She's the one who emailed me first. When I replied, she called it "hate
mail". Well, now she can know that she won't be receiving any more mail
from me.

| Well, so is sending an abuse report to somebody's ISP claiming that
| s/he is a "hate mail sender" just because you disagree with them.

That part was hilarious.

(Hailey the supposed maine coon) has me stressed. In all 21
of my years, I've never owned a feline, so perhaps having rescued a 4 week
old kitten that insists that I'm her mommie from which she can nurse.
While I'm crazy that she has fallen in love with me, I'm terrified that I'm
going to do something wrong and kill her. So I'm going to start out slowly
and ask a LOT of questions!

Natural to be stressed when you aren't familiar with an
animal. Natural for the kitten to treat you like "mom".
I've got a 12 year old that still thinks I'm her mom.
No point in trying to tell her differently now...
Probably yours will outgrow it. 4 weeks is WAY too
young to be away from mom. Generally they don't leave
mom till about 10 weeks, so you are going to have to
be mom for now.


1. I've learned that milk causes diarreah (I can't spell), but are there
special nutrients that are in a cat mother's milk that she is missing in her
kitten chow?

Besides the kitten replacement formula that you can get
at vets, or feed supply stores, goats milk is very good
for kittens. Closest to its mom's nutrient-wise. Some
grocery stores have it in quarts with regular milk.
Some have it in cans. Call around.




2. Longhair beauty that she is, we're having a.emm...pooping problem. Yeah,
it sticks.


Shaving the rear area is the way to go.
So your cat looks a bit like a baboon.
This one is young, too young to be expected to
be able to take care of herself. Shaving lasts
for months. Easiest on the person and the cat.
Takes the vet two or three minutes to accomplish.

3. Declawing...Yeah, I'm sure you are all going to hate me for it, but it's
getting done. She's an indoor cat and I'm afraid that she's going to scratch
the babies. What age do vets usually recommend the procedure?

Perhaps it is your unfamiliarity with cats that leads
you to think this is necessary. I've got six, and from
baby days to age 12, they've never scratched me. Ok,
a rare time jumping off my lap I got a scratch on a bare
leg, but so what. You definitely are underestimating
the "biting problem" -- that declawed cats frequently
become very! hard biters, and can't be controlled.
Teach kids and kitten to play nice with each other.
Simple.

As far as breeder's comments.
I would never bother to ask a "breeder".
As with the one you asked, too often these so-called
breeders are out in left field with the info they give out.
And that one vet doesn't care about it means nothing.
Just because someone is a vet, doesn't mean they are a good
vet. And some vets just are detached.

Having had six, I would never declaw a cat.
There's no need in the world.







4. Spaying..what age?

They are doing it at just a few weeks this age.
I'd definitely plan to make sure it was done
by 6 months. Yours is young, and has enough to
adjust to. Let it grow for a few months.