Need Opinions (Long)

Howard Berkowitz wrote:
In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

My 14-year-old (will be 15 on April 8), Bandit, just went in for a
dental cleaning today. She had just had a geriatric exam on
December 12 and her creatinine and BUN have gone up since then (the
vet said she is not concentrating her urine as well as when she was
younger). I'm worried that
these is (to me) a big jump in creatinine and BUN and that it is too
high,
but the vet said these figures are normal for her age (and none of my
cats
have ever been ill - Bandit is the oldest, so I know *NOTHING* about
these
things).

(snippage)
It is much easier to pill humans.

[tongue in cheek] So say you! A lot of the time I barf my daily meds back
up as soon as I swallow which is why I make sure I take them standing over
the bathroom sink!

Jill

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

Cholesterol | 270 HIGH | 75 - 220 mg/dL
I'm going to have to extrapolate from human medicine. The elevated
cholesterol doesn't worry me in an older creature, as the normal level
really tends to go up with age. Total cholesterol alone really doesn't
say anything by itself about the state of the circulatory system; you
have to know its three major subcomponents, HDL, LDL and triglycerides.

Yeah, I extropolated that just going by my mom's and grandmother's
cholesterol. They are/were both very high, but my grandmother lived to 104
and my mom is 79 and still going full speed ahead.

BUN | 36 | 14 - 36 mg/dL
Creatinine | 1.9 | 0.6 - 2.4 mg/dL

BUM is less predictive of kidney disease than creatinine. These are
values to watch, but not necessarily be concerned about.

Amylase and lipase are indicators of pancreatic disease, with the
amylase coming up first. This slight elevation probably isn't
significant, but might be well to watch, given the glucose is at the
upper end of the scale.

Didn't even twig to that.

Sodium | 159 HIGH | 145 - 158 ,Eq/L
Potassium | 4.8 | 3.4 - 5.6 mEq/L
na/K Ratio | 33 | 32 - 41
Chloride | 122 | 104 - 128 mEq/L
CPK | 109 | 56 - 529 IU/L
Triglyceride | 93 | 25 - 160 mg/dL
Osmolality, Calculated | 338 HIGH | 299 - 330 mOSm/kg

Looking at a number of these values, I'd suspect she was very slightly
dehydrated. That could artificially raise many values. It's a tossup,
because while the chemistry and hematocrit may suggest blood
dehydration, the urine is less concentrated -- which might mean less
kidney efficiency.

They had me fast her from 10:00PM last night but she still had access to
water.


ALKP | 45 | 14 - 111 U/L
ALT | 47 | 12 - 130 U/L
BUN | 36.9 HIGH | 16.0 - 36.0 mg/dL
Creatinine | 2.8 HIGH | 0.8 - 2.4 mg/dL

Time to start watching. The definitive test would be the creatine
clearance rate. In humans, this is usually done with a 24 hour urine
sample, which is not very easy to collect from cats. As I understand,
the creatinine clearance in cats is done by taking a blood sample,
injecting a known quantity of creatinine, waiting a specified time, and
measuring how much is left.

Yep, that's what I thought (about starting to watch it and possibly do some
preventative intervention.

As I just posted in h+b, I don't know why somebody doesn't invent a flavored
bottled water for cats with CRF. Mine lap up the water from canned tuna and
beg for more. But at almost a buck a can I can't afford to throw away that
much tuna to get enough water for it to make a difference.

People in the US alone spend upwards of 30 billion dollars a year on their
cats! DH says that it's crazy that nobody would buy bottled water for their
cats, but *I* would. Twenty years ago everybody said that people wouldn't
buy bottled water for themselves when it comes out of the tap for free, but
today bottled water is a multi-billion dollar industry (people spend more
for a gallon of bottled water than they do for a gallon of gas in the US!!).

I wish I knew how to start up that business!!! I could use a couple of
billion dollars!!!!! ;

Hugs,

CatNipped

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
snipped
I just don't know how to interpret the trends in cats. Hydration is
important. Diet certainly seems a consideration in cats. In humans,
there's an increasing tendency to prescribe ACE inhibitors, which are
principally drugs for high blood pressure

Which reminds me, to the OP (CatNipped) - have her blood pressure checked as
the CRF progresses. Many more vets are now equipped to take a cat's bp than
even a few years ago (when it was virtually impossible to find a nearyy vet
w/ the equipment & training to use the equipment). High blood press. can be
regulated with med & so can prevent blindness - retinas can detach with
undetected high bp.

Cathy

but do protect the kidneys. It
is much easier to pill humans.

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

Which reminds me, to the OP (CatNipped) - have her blood pressure checked
as
the CRF progresses. Many more vets are now equipped to take a cat's bp
than
even a few years ago (when it was virtually impossible to find a nearyy
vet
w/ the equipment & training to use the equipment). High blood press. can
be
regulated with med & so can prevent blindness - retinas can detach with
undetected high bp.

Cathy

Yep, my vet does, among lots of other neat stuff, for instance, the bill for
today included:

- Blood pressure monitoring
- Circulating hot water blanket
- Hospitalization
- IV catheter / fluids / surgery
- IV extension set
- LRS 500 FL bag
- Preanesthetic examination
- pulse oximeter
- IV pump
- Weight
- Dental Pack
- Isofulrane Anesthesia 1/2 hour
- Technician time - 20 minutes
- CBC inhouse
- Ketamine 100 mg/ml
- Mini profile with CBC
- Biohazard disposal
- Level II lab

All that for just a teeth cleaning! Oh well, it was cheaper than my last
vet who didn't do the preanesthesia, the IV, or a bunch of that other stuff
for her last cleaning. Only $183.30 which is *WAY* low for not only a large
city like Houston, but a high-scale suburb (The Woodlands).

Hugs,

CatNipped

"CatNipped" had some very
interesting things to say about Need Opinions (Long):

As I just posted in h+b, I don't know why somebody doesn't invent a flavored
bottled water for cats with CRF. Mine lap up the water from canned tuna and
beg for more. But at almost a buck a can I can't afford to throw away that
much tuna to get enough water for it to make a difference.

I've heard of beef-flavored bottled water for d-pets.

Hmmmm, maybe some VERY low-sodium beef or chicken broth, diluted
further if needed?

--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...

Cholesterol | 270 HIGH | 75 - 220 mg/dL
I'm going to have to extrapolate from human medicine. The elevated
cholesterol doesn't worry me in an older creature, as the normal level
really tends to go up with age. Total cholesterol alone really doesn't
say anything by itself about the state of the circulatory system; you
have to know its three major subcomponents, HDL, LDL and triglycerides.

Yeah, I extropolated that just going by my mom's and grandmother's
cholesterol. They are/were both very high, but my grandmother lived to
104
and my mom is 79 and still going full speed ahead.

Simplifying a bit, the total cholesterol is
LDL + HDL + (triglycerides/5)

Without making more than a passing observation that the terminology
could be better, LDL and HDL are both proteins that (low-density) carry
cholesterol _to_ the blood vessels, and (high-density) carry cholesterol
_away_ from the blood vessels. In general, if you have a sufficient
amount of HDL to "cover" the LDL, you are safe from atherosclerosis. A
common estinate is the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol. 4-5 means you
aren't at any particular risk.

You could have a total cholesterol of 300, but with an HDL of 60 or
better, you probably are safe.

In article , "Cathy Friedmann"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
snipped
I just don't know how to interpret the trends in cats. Hydration is
important. Diet certainly seems a consideration in cats. In humans,
there's an increasing tendency to prescribe ACE inhibitors, which are
principally drugs for high blood pressure

Which reminds me, to the OP (CatNipped) - have her blood pressure checked
as
the CRF progresses. Many more vets are now equipped to take a cat's bp
than
even a few years ago (when it was virtually impossible to find a nearyy
vet
w/ the equipment & training to use the equipment). High blood press. can
be
regulated with med & so can prevent blindness - retinas can detach with
undetected high bp.

Cathy

but do protect the kidneys. It
is much easier to pill humans.



I've wondered about the techniques used. The one time I saw it done by a
veterinary cardiologist, he put a cuff around Clifford's tail and
measured the systolic.

In human intensive care, however, we use Doppler ultrasound transducers,
and even simpler pressure wave detectors, to give continuous measurement
of systolic and diastolic pressures.

In article , "CatNipped"
wrote:

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

Which reminds me, to the OP (CatNipped) - have her blood pressure
checked
as
the CRF progresses. Many more vets are now equipped to take a cat's bp
than
even a few years ago (when it was virtually impossible to find a nearyy
vet
w/ the equipment & training to use the equipment). High blood press.
can
be
regulated with med & so can prevent blindness - retinas can detach with
undetected high bp.

Cathy

Yep, my vet does, among lots of other neat stuff, for instance, the bill
for
today included:

- Blood pressure monitoring
- Circulating hot water blanket
- Hospitalization
- IV catheter / fluids / surgery
- IV extension set
- LRS 500 FL bag
- Preanesthetic examination
- pulse oximeter
- IV pump
- Weight
- Dental Pack
- Isofulrane Anesthesia 1/2 hour
- Technician time - 20 minutes
- CBC inhouse
- Ketamine 100 mg/ml
- Mini profile with CBC
- Biohazard disposal
- Level II lab

All that for just a teeth cleaning! Oh well, it was cheaper than my last
vet who didn't do the preanesthesia, the IV, or a bunch of that other
stuff
for her last cleaning. Only $183.30 which is *WAY* low for not only a
large
city like Houston, but a high-scale suburb (The Woodlands).

Well, with any older patient, general anesthesia is always a risk. In
this case, incidentally, the anesthesia was in two phases: injected
ketamine to render her either asleep or just not caring, and isoflurane
as the prolonged anesthesia. It's quite likely the ketamine was given
through the IV.

Mr. Clark does have to go in for cleaning, and probably some gum
treatment, which gives me an idea.

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...

Which reminds me, to the OP (CatNipped) - have her blood pressure
checked
as
the CRF progresses. Many more vets are now equipped to take a cat's bp
than
even a few years ago (when it was virtually impossible to find a nearyy
vet
w/ the equipment & training to use the equipment). High blood press.
can
be
regulated with med & so can prevent blindness - retinas can detach with
undetected high bp.

Cathy

Yep, my vet does, among lots of other neat stuff, for instance, the bill
for
today included:

- Blood pressure monitoring
- Circulating hot water blanket
- Hospitalization
- IV catheter / fluids / surgery
- IV extension set
- LRS 500 FL bag
- Preanesthetic examination
- pulse oximeter
- IV pump
- Weight
- Dental Pack
- Isofulrane Anesthesia 1/2 hour
- Technician time - 20 minutes
- CBC inhouse
- Ketamine 100 mg/ml
- Mini profile with CBC
- Biohazard disposal
- Level II lab

All that for just a teeth cleaning! Oh well, it was cheaper than my last
vet who didn't do the preanesthesia, the IV, or a bunch of that other
stuff
for her last cleaning. Only $183.30 which is *WAY* low for not only a
large
city like Houston, but a high-scale suburb (The Woodlands).

Hugs,

CatNipped

Good, sounds like he's thorough.

Cathy

I just don't know how to interpret the trends in cats. Hydration is
important. Diet certainly seems a consideration in cats. In humans,
there's an increasing tendency to prescribe ACE inhibitors, which are
principally drugs for high blood pressure but do protect the kidneys. It
is much easier to pill humans.

There's a drug called Fortekor that has been used in the UK for a number of
years to protect the kidneys that is also now being prescripted by Doctors
in Canada (not sure about the us) which is an ACE inhibitor.

Fuga