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#11
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
Christina Websell wrote:
well, you are ok in australia, aren't you That's a harsh comment. I seem to remember an awful lot of Aussies died in the Bali bombing in 2002, which was caused by an Islamist group linked to AQ and deliberately targeted a Western tourist venue. Deb. -- http://www.scientific-art.com "He looked a fierce and quarrelsome cat, but claw he never would; He only bit the ones he loved, because they tasted good." S. Greenfield |
#12
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
Sherry wrote:
On May 2, 8:08*pm, "Yowie" wrote: "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr. I totally get it. I also mourn the loss of the many lives. But this whole "dancing in the streets" business makes me.... uneasy. IMHO it's a time for gratitude that OBL can no longer hurt or influence anyone else and at least some degree of justice was served. It's a time for reflection and remembering the thousands of lives lost. But all this talk of partying and celebration of an assassination just seems barbaric and uncivilized in itself. OTOH, love and forgiveness is a little too far outside my little box at this time. I wouldn't go that far, either. But yeah, there's something creepily bloodthirsty about the people who are cheering and celebrating. And anyway, I don't think his death makes the world any safer, so what is there to cheer about? Joyce -- The problem with cats is that they get the exact same look on their face whether they see a moth or an axe-murderer. -- Paula Poundstone |
#13
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
On May 3, 2:46*am, "wafflycat" wrote:
"Yowie" wrote in message ... "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr. Well said. It is a great quote and it fits. But just FYI, it's not what he actually said. For some odd reason, this quote has gone viral on the internet in this form. This is Dr. King's quote: "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence and toughness multiples toughness in a descending spiral of destruction." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (Thanks for the info., Karen C.) Still a great quote on its own. Sherry |
#14
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
"Sherry" wrote in message ... It is a great quote and it fits. But just FYI, it's not what he actually said. For some odd reason, this quote has gone viral on the internet in this form. This is Dr. King's quote: "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence and toughness multiples toughness in a descending spiral of destruction." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (Thanks for the info., Karen C.) Still a great quote on its own. Sherry Thanks for that Sherry - the true quote is just as apposite and one much needed at this time. Best, helen s |
#15
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
hopitus wrote:
Totally ignoring "icon" quotes of peace and love.....many of you from three great world powers, UK, USA, and Australa, calling celebrants of this news "bloodthirsty" and wrse......were not even on this earth in 1945 when was a very little girl and WW2 ended (Joy is execpted: she was around, few years older). You have seen the newsreels and vids and movies of the USA "dancing n the streets" and the famous "sailor kissing a strange nurse" pic on NYC main drag during massive celebration and return of USA troops to the homeland. Thosands of deaths led to the War's end. I don't get your equation: were those dancing, delirious celebrants "bloodthirsty" and worse? Oh, the poor, dead Axis (look that up). We've all gotten a lesson on "Axis", thanks to GW Bush. Couldn't it be that people were dancing in the streets because *the war was over*? Troops were coming home? And not because people died horribly in two Japanese cities? OK, so maybe some of them were happy about that, too - they were the "enemy" after all. I do think that's a bloodthirsty reaction - how could a decent person be happy about so many innocent people dying that way? But you can't compare that to the joy of a terrible war being over. USA people NOW needed something t celebrate very badly. Many, many citizens, old and young, are hurting badly for their daily living expenses, plus their medical care and medicines. I do not believe it is so much that bin Laden was killed as it is something the USA can claim victory for, even if militarily, after our prolonged disrespect and financial devaluation worldwide. There are probably a lot of other things that can be done about poverty and lack of medical care, that has nothing to do with apprehending a criminal. If that's what it takes for us to feel good about our country, what kind of society have we created? That's pathetic. But it's not news. When the US invaded Iraq the first time in '91 (Gulf War 1.0), all of a sudden all these people were wearing "Nuke Saddam" t-shirts and shouting "USA! USA! We're number one! We're number one!" WTF? Those idiots hadn't even heard of Saddam until a few months prior. Emmanuel Goldstein, anyone? http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/war/winstonsmith.htm (This looks like a wacko site, but it's the first one in the list of Google hits that actually has the excerpt I was looking for. There were 839,000 hits, so I'm not going to keep looking.) Joyce -- Mother teach me to walk again Milk and honey, so intoxicating -- Sarah McLaughlin |
#16
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
In ,
hopitus typed: On May 3, 11:08 am, "wafflycat" wrote: "Sherry" wrote in message ... It is a great quote and it fits. But just FYI, it's not what he actually said. For some odd reason, this quote has gone viral on the internet in this form. This is Dr. King's quote: "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence and toughness multiples toughness in a descending spiral of destruction." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (Thanks for the info., Karen C.) Still a great quote on its own. Sherry Thanks for that Sherry - the true quote is just as apposite and one much needed at this time. Best, helen s Totally ignoring "icon" quotes of peace and love.....many of you from three great world powers, UK, USA, and Australa, calling celebrants of this news "bloodthirsty" and wrse......were not even on this earth in 1945 when was a very little girl and WW2 ended (Joy is execpted: she was around, few years older). You have seen the newsreels and vids and movies of the USA "dancing n the streets" and the famous "sailor kissing a strange nurse" pic on NYC main drag during massive celebration and return of USA troops to the homeland. Thosands of deaths led to the War's end. I don't get your equation: were those dancing, delirious celebrants "bloodthirsty" and worse? Oh, the poor, dead Axis (look that up). Let me tell you somethng else about the "bloodthirsty" USA dancers, anyway, from WW2 war's end, after the megabombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, *in spite of fresh memories of Pearl Harbor* I do NOT remember and have not viewed such street partying after the Max bombs were sent to Japan. No dancing, no partying, no celebrating in large numbers here....only shock and horror at the huge *mushroom* clouds arisig from that epic that led to Japan's surrender. USA people NOW needed something t celebrate very badly. Many, many citizens, old and young, are hurting badly for their daily living expenses, plus their medical care and medicines. I do not believe it is so much that bin Laden was killed as it is something the USA can claim victory for, even if militarily, after our prolonged disrespect and financial devaluation worldwide. At last, something to be happy about, even if not directly. We needed this to regain our national pride. I got different icons than some of you. Most of mine are military. I am not quoting them, snork. As far as I know, speaking to my parents who survived - and have deep psychological scars from - The Blitz, the jubilation seen on the newsreels at the end of WW2 was not celebrating and rejoicing of the hundreds of thousands of Axis deaths, or indeed Allied deaths, but simply because: *the war was over* At least, that is their memory of it in the UK. They were children, yes, but well into their early teens, and unlikley to 'misremember' such a thing. A different thing entirely to celebrating the death of an individual, even if that individual happened to be hte leader of 'the enemy' Did they dance that the death of Hitler? (I don't know) *That* would be comparable, but dancing because a war is over is not. Yowie Godwin! |
#17
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
In ,
Debbie Wilson typed: Christina Websell wrote: well, you are ok in australia, aren't you That's a harsh comment. I seem to remember an awful lot of Aussies died in the Bali bombing in 2002, which was caused by an Islamist group linked to AQ and deliberately targeted a Western tourist venue. I remember spending 12 straight hours punching the same 14 damn numbers in to the phone, over and over, hour after hour, trying to get a hold of my mother who was due to fly back to Australia from her English holiday the next day. My mother has been terrified of flying since she was a young girl, because she always had visions of... and this is creepy and I am not kidding... a plane crashing into a skyscraper and bursting into flames. You can well imagine the effect on my mother when she heard the news. You can well imagine the effect on my family, knowing that Mum was overseas and had to come home somehow, but would never be able to get on a again after she saw her worst nightmare coming true. (She came home 2 weeks later, under heavy sedation). She has not gotten on a plane since. Also had a friend who was flying back to Canada that day from a holiday here. She got to LAX but couldn't get to Ottawa as there were no flights, and all other forms of transport had already been taken. As you know, the phones were down, so she couldn't call *anyone* to tell them she was OK. She spent 3 long days at LAX, with little food, money and shelter - not to mention sleep or even a place to wash herself - before she could make her way to Ottowa. The cleaner here at work lost her cousin as the second World Trade Tower came down. She said the worst part was knowing that she might have actually survived, but thinking that she was probably dead and not knowing. They were a close knit family - the cleaner quit a few months later to go take care of the family her cousin left behind in the USA. She was a lovely, generous person before 9/11 - and probably still is - but she had a haunted look on her face after 9/11 that was never there before. The next department over lost an employee and his wife on their honeymoon in Bali in 2002. We all had a minute's silence. And I myself watched the towers fall - it was in the wee small hours of morning here, but you can't sleep when stuff like that is happening. And I wept with the rest of the planet. That day, that scene, the feeling of horror and helplessness, of outrage and deep sorrow, is burned into my memory forever, just like it is for just about *anyone* who was cognizant at the time. These stories are far from unique, and are, sadly, far from the 'worst' that happened that day, but still: The effect of terrorism has been world wide. It is both extremely hurtful and woefully ignorant to presume otherwise. Yowie |
#18
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
I don't know how I feel about bin Laden's death. A known enemy is
easier to deal with; control, contain, manipulate, etc.. Who may follow is a harsh unknown. About the "joyous dancing in the streets". I remember the outrage felt when clips were shown of "joyous" dancing when the towers fell. I think "the other side" may feel that same outrage. |
#19
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OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN
On May 3, 9:24*pm, Katiri wrote:
I don't know how I feel about bin Laden's death. *A known enemy is easier to deal with; control, contain, manipulate, etc.. *Who may follow is a harsh unknown. About the "joyous dancing in the streets". *I remember the outrage felt when clips were shown of "joyous" dancing when the towers fell. *I think "the other side" may feel that same outrage. Yes, I thought of that also. And it seems to drag us down to another level to do so. Sherry |
#20
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German? (was OT THEY GOT BIN LADEN)
"hopitus" wrote in message
I am over discussing WW2 except to say... ... The Royals did *not* go off to the rural palaces; Queen Mum was right there through it all, the Blitzkreig (German spelling??)... Almost. "Blitzkrieg". Literally translated as "Lightning war". Kinda reminds me of my CSE (equivalent to High Scholl Certificate?) in German, aural examination, in 1977. It was a conversational piece between examiner and candidate, recorded for assessment later. The exam invigilator (my teacher) would ask questions, to which we had prepared answers - and practiced many times. It went something like this, but translated (mostly) into English for ease of reading: "And what do you like doing in your spare time?" "I like reading." "And what do you like to read?" (At this point, my memory failed me. I completely forgot what types of books I was supposed to say... Thinking 'on my feet', so to speak, I went on to say... "Ich lese gern bücher aus den krieg!" ("I like reading books about the war!") I still remember my teacher's reaction to this. She was somewhat surprised that I had departed from the pre-prepared answers, and as a consequence, the questions she began to ask were also *not* those we had prepared. After the examination finished, she stopped the tape, and said: "Unmöglich - und unglaublich! Du sprechts Deutsch wie so ein Deutscher!" ("Impossible - and unbelievable! You speak German just like a German!") I left with a big grin on my face - and of course I passed the exam with a top grade :-) Incidentally, I found the language skill extremely useful when I left home to go to university, because I then shared a house with two students from Germany! (I learnt a *lot* more German from them, including how to insult other people :-)) -- MatSav |
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