"The Russian Blue" book, anyone?

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:55:35 GMT, "~*Connie*~" wrote:

Jellicoe,

If you could actually give the cat the facts.. ALL the facts, Im certain
there isn't a cat in the world that would go outside. Cats aren't
particularly fond of being chased by dogs, hit by cars, tortured by mean
moronic people, getting caught in the rain, getting lost, wandering into a
neighbors yard who just treated with pesticide or any of the other hundreds
of other evils out there in the world.

Sadly, too many cat owners aren't aware of their cats, and they do not
provide enough mental and physical stimulation to keep them happy. Cats do
NOT need to go outside to get the stimulation they need. My five have shown
absolutely NO interest in going outside... including my eldest who used to.

If you live in an area where, for whatever reason, you feel unable to
allow a healthy cat its freedom to roam for at least some time each
day (and only you can judge your area) then don't have a cat. To have
a healthy cat, knowing you will keep it in 24/7 marks you are being
cruel, selfish, or both.

--
Bob.

You have not been charged for this lesson. Please pass it to all your
friends so they may learn as well.

On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:

Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
ever, ever.

I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
quality of life.

--
Bob.

1 cat + 1 revolving door to garden + 1 dynamo = Free energy.

On 3 Jan 2004 09:58:24 -0800, (Tracy) wrote:

Jellico is totally correct. The ideal life for a cat, if it can be
managed, is an indoor-outdoor life. Given the cat overpopulation
problem. I would not go so far as to suggest that anyone who is in an
urban environment shouldn't have a cat - a safe and loving home is
always better than no home at all, but I, at least, would express
regret if I were forced to keep my cats indoors 24/7.

There are NO valid reasons for keeping a healthy cat indoors 24/7.
There may, in your area, be very valid reasons for not keeping a cat.

I have seen cats wary about going through doors to the outside when
they are concerned whether or not the door will remain open for them
to return. I have never seen a cat in my life that would not joyfully
bound into a yard when it is no longer worried about that. Never,
ever, ever.

I have. In the last few years I've had several cats for short term
fostering that were abused by a previous owner who kept them indoors
24/7. It took, in some cases, several months to get them happy with
going outside - but the effort was well rewarded with their greater
quality of life.

--
Bob.

1 cat + 1 revolving door to garden + 1 dynamo = Free energy.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 06:20:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez
wrote:

Ivor Jones wrote:
Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
presenting it wants it to prove.

I take it your not a scientist. I am.

I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
outside, you should not have one.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

Cheers.



He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one

LT
Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 06:20:47 GMT, "Linda Terrell"
wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:24:27 UTC, Victor Martinez
wrote:

Ivor Jones wrote:
Research is like statistics; it can be made to "prove" whatever the person
presenting it wants it to prove.

I take it your not a scientist. I am.

I still and will always maintain a cat should be allowed to do as it
pleases, if it wants to go out, it should be allowed to. If you don't want
it to, or you live in an area where it is *unsafe* for a cat to be
outside, you should not have one.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Misguided as it might be.

Cheers.



He's Benchley in disguise and not a good one

LT
Stupid Troll.

--
Bob.

Your IQ score is 2 (it takes 3 to grunt).

On 3 Jan 2004 22:30:29 -0800, (Jellicoe) wrote:

Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
counterparts"),

Liar!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

On 3 Jan 2004 22:30:29 -0800, (Jellicoe) wrote:

Victor, firstly, in reply to your earlier comment ("I see you chose
to ignore the part where I mentioned there's research out there that
proves that indoor-only cats are as happy as their indoor-outdoor
counterparts"),

Liar!

--
Bob.

The difference between ordinary stupid and extraordinary stupid can be
summed up in one word -- YOU.

Jellicoe wrote:
papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
salt.

Absolutely! Go read them. All written by the best animal behaviorists
both in the US and abroad. I have yet to see one arriving at the
opposite conclusion though.

As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed

One of them used to live outdoors before we rescued him. He's the one
that seem to be the least interested in going out.
For a while we tried the leashes for giving them walkies, but they
didn't enjoy it that much.
We have a pack of very healthy, clean, happy cats. They are sweethearts
that do not have any destructive behaviors (a telltale sign of a
disgruntled cat). They are extremely outgoing, active, and loving. Our
vet thinks they are the sweetest, best behaved cats she's ever met.
I think we're doing a good job raising them, and I expect to live with
them for many, many years.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

Jellicoe wrote:
papers should be read with a critical, objective mind. Maybe there are
papers saying indoor cats are as happy as outdoor ones, but until I
myself have read them, and investigated the validity of their methods
and results, I will chose to take your mention of them with a grain of
salt.

Absolutely! Go read them. All written by the best animal behaviorists
both in the US and abroad. I have yet to see one arriving at the
opposite conclusion though.

As to the cats that chose to not go out. Have you kept them indoors
all their lives? Ever thought that maybe they're just too scared to go
out? Both cats and dogs are inclined to fear what they are not exposed

One of them used to live outdoors before we rescued him. He's the one
that seem to be the least interested in going out.
For a while we tried the leashes for giving them walkies, but they
didn't enjoy it that much.
We have a pack of very healthy, clean, happy cats. They are sweethearts
that do not have any destructive behaviors (a telltale sign of a
disgruntled cat). They are extremely outgoing, active, and loving. Our
vet thinks they are the sweetest, best behaved cats she's ever met.
I think we're doing a good job raising them, and I expect to live with
them for many, many years.

Cheers.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:08:57 UTC, "rangitotogirl"
wrote:


Given the choice, how many cats would choose
being outdoors and poisoned, hit by cars, torn apart by dogs, eaten
by coyotes, starved, abducted by weirdos and tortured?

LT

Well that's getting a bit extreme. You could turn this around and say what
is the likelihood of this happening to you and your children. Do you choose
to stay indoors and keep your children wrapped up in cotton wool because you
might get hit by a bus or attacked and tortured by a weirdo or a dog. I'm
guessing that you would still want to live your life right and while you do
what you can to protect your kids you are not going to keep them shut up in
the house all day every day.

In my street our house is well off a very quiet road and the cats don't
venture up the driveway they stay within the section. The only dog in the
street is next door and gets on well with cats, he has to, he lives with two
of them. There's no coyotes in our country. Why would we starve our pets,
they can get inside and to their food whenever they want, and how many
weirdos out there would torture a cat. Just because you might live in a
street full of weirdos, coyotes and dogs doesn't mean everyone does, in fact
it would appear we live in a street full of cat lovers.

We have two cats, one is very much an indoor cat, she'll come outdoors when
we're outdoors and she loves rolling in the sun on a sunny day but most of
the time she'll remain indoors. Basically if I'm around that is where she
wants to be. Our other cat just loves being outdoors, there is just too
much to play with, e.g. leaves, lizards etc. There are no predators except
other cats (and the neighbours friendly dog that doesn't count and is shut
up in the yard anyway) and the cats in our neighbourhood are generally
reasonably social anyway. Although she comes in from time to time it goes
against her nature to be indoors for long periods of time and she might as
well be locked up in a cattery. It's not the sort of life I would wish on
her by any means. Cats are independent critters and need the life that works
best for them.

So yes, if there are lots of predators then it is appropriate to have indoor
cats but if you're going to assume that every cat faces hazards as soon as
they walk out a door then think again, it doesn't happen everywhere and you
shouldn't be assuming that it does.

And in answer to your question as to how many cats would choose being
outdoors and poisoned etc. Given the odds of that happening to our cats are
probably far smaller than the likelihood of a similar thing happening to me
and given that is pretty small also, and given that this doesn't stop me
from going out and living my life, I do believe they would also choose to be
outdoors when they choose to be.


It happens where I live and I live in a small town in Florida.
And I have seen coyotes on the sidewalk in front of my house
at night. And cats have disappeared here to be found in pieces
or electrocuted and disected.

It happens. Even in quiet "safe" places.

Outdoor cats also bring home parasites and fleas, get into
fights and get wounded and infected.

YOU can go outdoors and live your live. But when you take in an animal
you owe it its safety because you've taken away some of its power to
prtect itself by domesticating it.

You are big enough and strong enough and loud enough to avoid
cars and posoning etc.

LT