Flat Nosed Cats

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

Well, yes, but again it's just an opinion. I just haven't met many people who
were in the market for a Persian cat who said they wanted the flat-faced kind
rather than the doll-faced kind. So IMO I think many people do find doll-faced
Persians more appealing and prefer them.


That could very well be, but I bet the vast majority of the common, cat-
buying public don't know there IS a doll-face Persian. You don't see
them any more, really. I know I didn't know they existed until recently,
and I'm a huge cat lover.
Considering my local pet store and how many purebreds they sell, I'd
wager that most people who buy purebreds have no idea what the standard
even is - they just know that when they see Persians they have flat
faces. To them, that is what a Persian is. They buy on impulse, not
because they researched the cat and really wanted one. If they'd done
research, they wouldn't be buying them from a pet store that charges
more than a BYB. *g*
My local pet store, which I stop in about once a month, always has
Persian kittens. They sell well, apparently. For $800 each.

IME, most people who buy Persians either do so on impulse or for a
status symbol. They don't go around to breeders and ask about the
different types.

Also, I didn't realize you meant mostly commercial breeders. The only breeders
I know are the ones I have met at cat shows, and they breed according to breed
standards, not to meet public demand for certain types of kittens.


I did mostly mean commercial, for profit, breeders. Such as my local pet
store and the BYBs in the newspapers.
I have no idea how standards get set, as I prefer moggies to purebreds.
I prefer companions to a pet that compliments my furniture. hehe

Honestly, though, why set the standard to a new type if that new type
were not more popular? I can't fathom it, but there's a reason for
everything...

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli wrote:

That could very well be, but I bet the vast majority of the common, cat-
buying public don't know there IS a doll-face Persian. You don't see
them any more, really. I know I didn't know they existed until recently,
and I'm a huge cat lover.

Maybe it depends on where you are. I do see doll-faced Persians at pet stores.
They might be Persian mixes sold as Persians, however. I don't see too many
Peke-faced Persians other than at cat shows.


Considering my local pet store and how many purebreds they sell, I'd
wager that most people who buy purebreds have no idea what the standard
even is - they just know that when they see Persians they have flat
faces. To them, that is what a Persian is. They buy on impulse, not
because they researched the cat and really wanted one. If they'd done
research, they wouldn't be buying them from a pet store that charges
more than a BYB. *g*

That's true, because responsible breeders don't sell to pet stores.

My local pet store, which I stop in about once a month, always has
Persian kittens. They sell well, apparently. For $800 each.

IME, most people who buy Persians either do so on impulse or for a
status symbol. They don't go around to breeders and ask about the
different types.

No doubt true, because as you say, many people buy on impulse. If they did
research at all, they wouldn't buy from a pet store.

Also, I didn't realize you meant mostly commercial breeders. The only
breeders
I know are the ones I have met at cat shows, and they breed according to
breed
standards, not to meet public demand for certain types of kittens.


I did mostly mean commercial, for profit, breeders. Such as my local pet
store and the BYBs in the newspapers.
I have no idea how standards get set, as I prefer moggies to purebreds.
I prefer companions to a pet that compliments my furniture. hehe

Honestly, though, why set the standard to a new type if that new type
were not more popular? I can't fathom it, but there's a reason for
everything...

Cat show people are a relatively small group. When you talk about standards
being popular, that means popular with judges at the cat shows, not people who
buy pet cats. I'm not sure the judges really care what "look" is more appealing
to potential buyers of pet quality cats. After all, if the cat met the
established standards perfectly, it would be show quality, not pet quality, and
the breeder would not be interested in selling it anyway.

kaeli wrote:

That could very well be, but I bet the vast majority of the common, cat-
buying public don't know there IS a doll-face Persian. You don't see
them any more, really. I know I didn't know they existed until recently,
and I'm a huge cat lover.

Maybe it depends on where you are. I do see doll-faced Persians at pet stores.
They might be Persian mixes sold as Persians, however. I don't see too many
Peke-faced Persians other than at cat shows.


Considering my local pet store and how many purebreds they sell, I'd
wager that most people who buy purebreds have no idea what the standard
even is - they just know that when they see Persians they have flat
faces. To them, that is what a Persian is. They buy on impulse, not
because they researched the cat and really wanted one. If they'd done
research, they wouldn't be buying them from a pet store that charges
more than a BYB. *g*

That's true, because responsible breeders don't sell to pet stores.

My local pet store, which I stop in about once a month, always has
Persian kittens. They sell well, apparently. For $800 each.

IME, most people who buy Persians either do so on impulse or for a
status symbol. They don't go around to breeders and ask about the
different types.

No doubt true, because as you say, many people buy on impulse. If they did
research at all, they wouldn't buy from a pet store.

Also, I didn't realize you meant mostly commercial breeders. The only
breeders
I know are the ones I have met at cat shows, and they breed according to
breed
standards, not to meet public demand for certain types of kittens.


I did mostly mean commercial, for profit, breeders. Such as my local pet
store and the BYBs in the newspapers.
I have no idea how standards get set, as I prefer moggies to purebreds.
I prefer companions to a pet that compliments my furniture. hehe

Honestly, though, why set the standard to a new type if that new type
were not more popular? I can't fathom it, but there's a reason for
everything...

Cat show people are a relatively small group. When you talk about standards
being popular, that means popular with judges at the cat shows, not people who
buy pet cats. I'm not sure the judges really care what "look" is more appealing
to potential buyers of pet quality cats. After all, if the cat met the
established standards perfectly, it would be show quality, not pet quality, and
the breeder would not be interested in selling it anyway.

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

Maybe it depends on where you are. I do see doll-faced Persians at pet stores.
They might be Persian mixes sold as Persians, however. I don't see too many
Peke-faced Persians other than at cat shows.


Really? Then it must be regional. I don't even remember seeing doll-
faces. We're all flat-faces here (suburban Chicago).
Then again, I only see them in pet stores. I don't see Persians anywhere
else.



Considering my local pet store and how many purebreds they sell, I'd
wager that most people who buy purebreds have no idea what the standard
even is - they just know that when they see Persians they have flat
faces. To them, that is what a Persian is. They buy on impulse, not
because they researched the cat and really wanted one. If they'd done
research, they wouldn't be buying them from a pet store that charges
more than a BYB. *g*

That's true, because responsible breeders don't sell to pet stores.


A very hardy SO TRUE from me on that one.
Actually, I think it's harder to get a cat from a responsible breeder
than it is to adopt a kid. That's only half-joking.


IME, most people who buy Persians either do so on impulse or for a
status symbol. They don't go around to breeders and ask about the
different types.

No doubt true, because as you say, many people buy on impulse. If they did
research at all, they wouldn't buy from a pet store.

Yup.
My point exactly. From my experience only, of course.


Cat show people are a relatively small group. When you talk about standards
being popular, that means popular with judges at the cat shows, not people who
buy pet cats. I'm not sure the judges really care what "look" is more appealing
to potential buyers of pet quality cats. After all, if the cat met the
established standards perfectly, it would be show quality, not pet quality, and
the breeder would not be interested in selling it anyway.

Yeah. That is true...So why would the standards change? I don't know a
whole hell of a lot about showing cats, since I'm a moggie-lover. Any
ideas?
The Siamese changed too, as we were saying somewhere else in this
thread. In the ring, the appleheads lose because they are no longer
standard. How would this happen?


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

Maybe it depends on where you are. I do see doll-faced Persians at pet stores.
They might be Persian mixes sold as Persians, however. I don't see too many
Peke-faced Persians other than at cat shows.


Really? Then it must be regional. I don't even remember seeing doll-
faces. We're all flat-faces here (suburban Chicago).
Then again, I only see them in pet stores. I don't see Persians anywhere
else.



Considering my local pet store and how many purebreds they sell, I'd
wager that most people who buy purebreds have no idea what the standard
even is - they just know that when they see Persians they have flat
faces. To them, that is what a Persian is. They buy on impulse, not
because they researched the cat and really wanted one. If they'd done
research, they wouldn't be buying them from a pet store that charges
more than a BYB. *g*

That's true, because responsible breeders don't sell to pet stores.


A very hardy SO TRUE from me on that one.
Actually, I think it's harder to get a cat from a responsible breeder
than it is to adopt a kid. That's only half-joking.


IME, most people who buy Persians either do so on impulse or for a
status symbol. They don't go around to breeders and ask about the
different types.

No doubt true, because as you say, many people buy on impulse. If they did
research at all, they wouldn't buy from a pet store.

Yup.
My point exactly. From my experience only, of course.


Cat show people are a relatively small group. When you talk about standards
being popular, that means popular with judges at the cat shows, not people who
buy pet cats. I'm not sure the judges really care what "look" is more appealing
to potential buyers of pet quality cats. After all, if the cat met the
established standards perfectly, it would be show quality, not pet quality, and
the breeder would not be interested in selling it anyway.

Yeah. That is true...So why would the standards change? I don't know a
whole hell of a lot about showing cats, since I'm a moggie-lover. Any
ideas?
The Siamese changed too, as we were saying somewhere else in this
thread. In the ring, the appleheads lose because they are no longer
standard. How would this happen?


-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

kaeli wrote:

Yeah. That is true...So why would the standards change? I don't know a
whole hell of a lot about showing cats, since I'm a moggie-lover. Any
ideas?
The Siamese changed too, as we were saying somewhere else in this
thread. In the ring, the appleheads lose because they are no longer
standard. How would this happen?

I'm not sure. I know there are some breeders committed to bringing back
appleheads and doll-faced Persians. I think there is probably a parallel with
dog breeding--the trend has been to make each breed distinctive from other
breeds or mixed breeds. So I imagine what has happened is that judges tend to
favor a look that is distinct for each breed. Over time, that meant that
Persian faces became flatter than your average housecat, and Siamese cats
became slimmer and with more wedge-shaped head than a mixed breed pointed cat.

I have seen this happen with dog breeds too. Many of the more common breeds
that I see shown at dog shows sure look more extreme than those breeds that I
remember as a child. For example, it seems to me that cocker spaniels were a
lot cuter dogs thirty years ago. Irish setters (at least the show dogs) look a
lot more extreme to me now too.

kaeli wrote:

Yeah. That is true...So why would the standards change? I don't know a
whole hell of a lot about showing cats, since I'm a moggie-lover. Any
ideas?
The Siamese changed too, as we were saying somewhere else in this
thread. In the ring, the appleheads lose because they are no longer
standard. How would this happen?

I'm not sure. I know there are some breeders committed to bringing back
appleheads and doll-faced Persians. I think there is probably a parallel with
dog breeding--the trend has been to make each breed distinctive from other
breeds or mixed breeds. So I imagine what has happened is that judges tend to
favor a look that is distinct for each breed. Over time, that meant that
Persian faces became flatter than your average housecat, and Siamese cats
became slimmer and with more wedge-shaped head than a mixed breed pointed cat.

I have seen this happen with dog breeds too. Many of the more common breeds
that I see shown at dog shows sure look more extreme than those breeds that I
remember as a child. For example, it seems to me that cocker spaniels were a
lot cuter dogs thirty years ago. Irish setters (at least the show dogs) look a
lot more extreme to me now too.

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

I'm not sure. I know there are some breeders committed to bringing back
appleheads and doll-faced Persians.

I saw some of the sites on that.
They are SO much prettier, IMO.

I think there is probably a parallel with
dog breeding--the trend has been to make each breed distinctive from other
breeds or mixed breeds. So I imagine what has happened is that judges tend to
favor a look that is distinct for each breed. Over time, that meant that
Persian faces became flatter than your average housecat, and Siamese cats
became slimmer and with more wedge-shaped head than a mixed breed pointed cat.


That would make sense in a weird sort of way...

Sometimes, people confuse me.
*g*

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------

In article ,
ospam enlightened us with...

I'm not sure. I know there are some breeders committed to bringing back
appleheads and doll-faced Persians.

I saw some of the sites on that.
They are SO much prettier, IMO.

I think there is probably a parallel with
dog breeding--the trend has been to make each breed distinctive from other
breeds or mixed breeds. So I imagine what has happened is that judges tend to
favor a look that is distinct for each breed. Over time, that meant that
Persian faces became flatter than your average housecat, and Siamese cats
became slimmer and with more wedge-shaped head than a mixed breed pointed cat.


That would make sense in a weird sort of way...

Sometimes, people confuse me.
*g*

-------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu
thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
-------------------------------------------------