I'm worrying about myself...

On 19 Nov., 22:08, wrote:
but sometimes I I do get caught up in the "image" of what I'm doing,
rather than in the experience* of it.

This is so well put. Exactly what I meant.

Can anyone relate? Any suggestions? Reassurance that I'm not a social
failure (as far as anyone here can tell, of course)? Is this a symptom
of the Fall of Modern Civilization?

Joyce

I can relate too, Joyce. Enough that it scares me. I used to have a
social group where I hung out, but that has been gone for over a year
now. It just seems like such an effort to socialize now. Since I
work with mostly guys, I have very few 'friends' at work, just one
lady from another department (but she's a GREAT friend). But at home,
I have my sewing, my digital cable with DVR, the computer, the piano,
and enough other toys that there is a definite danger of becoming a
hermit. Nearly all of my dearest friends are online.
What would we do without the Internet?

Jane
- owned and operated by the Princess Rita

On 19 Nov, 13:08, wrote:


By the way, some men can get pretty possessive and jealous if their wife
or girlfriend has a male friend. I think our culture (by that I mean
Western culture, or maybe even human, I don't know) is plain suspicious
of opposite-sex friendships in general,

One thing I do have to say for Dave is that most of my friends are
male and he has never been at all possessive. Last night I stopped off
for a drink and got talking to 3 close male friends and when I got in
Dave said "Where have you been?" and I said "Drinking with Jools, Jim
and Bill" and his only comment was "How are they?"

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs

Lesley wrote:
On 19 Nov, 13:08, wrote:


By the way, some men can get pretty possessive and jealous if their
wife or girlfriend has a male friend. I think our culture (by that I
mean Western culture, or maybe even human, I don't know) is plain
suspicious of opposite-sex friendships in general,

One thing I do have to say for Dave is that most of my friends are
male and he has never been at all possessive. Last night I stopped off
for a drink and got talking to 3 close male friends and when I got in
Dave said "Where have you been?" and I said "Drinking with Jools, Jim
and Bill" and his only comment was "How are they?"

And that's how it should be! My ex-boyfriend Ray didn't understand there
can be a male/female dynamic that doesn't involve sex. (I should have
dumped him long before I did.)

cats never judge, they just love, makes sense to me that you are closer to
the cat. I am 48 and have many pleasant acquaintances but I can count on 1
hand the amount of people I truly trust. and trust is the real basis for
friendship. amount of friends and frequency of visits of friends are not
the score card, your satisfaction with those things is the determination, if
its good for you then you are a success, if not you just change, even though
it takes time there is no failure here, Lee
wrote in message
...
Last night I had a very good friend over to visit. We were doing bead
jewelry together. We've been close friends for about 12 years.

Anyway, at some point during the evening, Roxy came by for a cuddle.
So I let her hang over my shoulder and purr, while I cooed and petted
her. And suddenly the thought came into my head, "I feel closer to
Roxy than I do to _____ (my friend)." It wasn't just an idle thought.
It's true! Although this friend and I have known each other a long
time, and we've shared a lot of experiences, and I've told her a whole
lot about myself, she is very closed-mouthed about her own feelings,
and in fact, prefers not to talk much at all. She has always kept me
at arm's length in that way, and because of that, I often don't feel
satisfied by conversations.

And she really is my closest friend. I do have one other very close
friend, and that friend and I share a lot of personal emotional talk,
but it's a bit one-way. I do most of the listening in that friendship.

Yeah, I need some new friends. Not that I want to dump these friends,
because despite the flaws, they're great people. And everyone has flaws -
every relationship has things that are missing. But I would like to have
some relationships that are more consistently satisfying. I'm working
on it, but it's not easy. You don't go to the friend store and buy new
ones whenever you feel like it. You have to keep reaching out to people
in the hope that something will come of it. Most of the time, nothing
does. I've made some new friends recently, but it takes time for them to
develop into the kind of intimacy that I have with my older friends. I
don't like to push hard or rush things - I'd rather let them develop in
their own time.

But meanwhile, I get lonely. And the only truly dependable, loving
friends, who give affection freely, who I never worry are judging me,
and who I utterly adore, are my cats. I see the path in front of me,
and it points to "crazy cat lady" in my future - perhaps the not-so-
distant future. We joke about this a lot on this newsgroup, but this
scares me. I see nothing wrong with having a lot of cats, nor of
adoring them to death. But it does worry me that I'm becoming more
and more separated from my own species. I used to be a very social
person, but it seems to get harder and harder. My cats are my primary
relationship! I've had periods like this in the past, where a cat was
my best friend. But it's not so weird when you're young - you know it's
just a phase. At my age, I have no reason to believe that things will
ever change again.

Can anyone relate? Any suggestions? Reassurance that I'm not a social
failure (as far as anyone here can tell, of course)? Is this a symptom
of the Fall of Modern Civilization?

Joyce

Enfilade wrote:

You're not a loser. Relationships and needs ebb and flow.

Thank you.

All my best friendships have come through doing things that I enjoy
and happening to meet people I have a lot in common with that way.
Fellow writers and toy collectors and fandom nerds and role players
and witches and military people, all through doing stuff I liked to
do, and got lifelong friends while doing it.

So instead of wishing for the friend store, go do something new that
you've sort of wanted to do and never tried....a hobby, a sport, a
community or religious group, whatever, give it a try and if you like
it, you may meet a lot of new people that way.

I probably should have given more context when I posted about this...
I've always been a group-joiner type, and have joined many, many social
groups focused on activities or on common interests, etc. I've made
most of the friends I have in this very way.

Part of the problem is that for some reason, over the past few years,
I've gotten more sensitive and wary around people, maybe due to a
couple of bad relationship fallouts that did a number on my self-esteem.
So I feel guarded and suspicious, and sort of grumpy and intolerant of
most of the people I meet. Unlike in past years when I used to go to
social activities all the time, and I actually liked people, I tend to
avoid those now. I've really gotten isolated. It's like what Jane was
saying, with having all the comforts and entertaining toys at home -
not to mention furry friends - why leave the house? I know it's not
good for me to get into that habit (as Cheryl said, one needs to have
balance), but as time goes by, it gets harder and harder to overcome.
It's still lonely, though...

Joyce

I'm like this all the time, actually, I don't like people around me
and I have to make myself get out of the isolation (That I naturally
prefer) and try to make some sort of contact for the sake of having
someone to call to feed the cats when I'm on holiday.... I don't feel
lonely though, I feel secure.

Unlike in past years when I used to go to
social activities all the time, and I actually liked people, I tend to
avoid those now. I've really gotten isolated. It's like what Jane was
saying, with having all the comforts and entertaining toys at home -
not to mention furry friends - why leave the house? I know it's not
good for me to get into that habit (as Cheryl said, one needs to have
balance), but as time goes by, it gets harder and harder to overcome.
It's still lonely, though...

Enfilade wrote:

I'm like this all the time, actually, I don't like people around me
and I have to make myself get out of the isolation (That I naturally
prefer) and try to make some sort of contact for the sake of having
someone to call to feed the cats when I'm on holiday.... I don't feel
lonely though, I feel secure.

Yeah, but you live with someone. Even if he's not around all the time
or you don't spend every minute together, it makes a big difference just
to have someone to say hello to in the morning, or someone in the house
when you're at home, even if you're doing different things.

I lived with a partner for years, and I remember that this kind of
fluctuation in my sociability wasn't as difficult. I went through
occasional periods where I didn't feel very social, and although I'm
more content when I feel more social, I didn't find the less-social
periods quite as difficult as I do now, that I live by myself.

I've even asked myself if I should try to find an apartment share,
just to have someone around, but nah... don't think so. Living with a
roommate is *not* the same as living with a partner!!

Joyce

Hi Joyce,

I was randomly checking out Google groups and, of course, went to my
first and deepest love - cats. As I scanned the

recent message headers, yours rang a (very loud) bell.

I've often claimed to have been a cat in another lifetime. Aside from
the fact that my favorite passtimes are eating,

being massaged, and sleeping, I really do tend to prefer feline
company to the human variety. I am lucky enough to

have a soulmate husband, whom I adore, but even so, there were times
that I felt closer to my soulmate cat, Molly, who

had to be put down last May. I had another cat Emma at the time, and I
adopted a rescue cat Jenny Linsky in Molly's

honor, but Molly was the one. I've got to say that her death was
pretty much on a par with my mother's in terms of

hard-to-deal-with-ness. In fact, in a very concrete way, I've missed
Molly more. I'm about to turn 52 tomorrow, and

it's been many many decades since I cuddled on a daily basis with my
mother! So I don't think you're at all out of

line to feel closer to your cats than to your friends, nor do I think
you're destined to become "a crazy cat lady." In

fact, anyone who can navigate Google groups and figure out how to post
to the group *and* to the author (that rules me

out) is far too savvy to become a crazy anything.

Still, I can relate. My husband and daughter spend a week every summer
at some cabins with his extended family. And

they are *really* extended; sometimes up to 40 people at a time.
They're great people, but I generally stayed home

with Molly. I just felt more comfortable with her. This past summer I
did go with my human family, because I was

afraid I'd be too sad at home without Molly, with only the constant
fighting of my two cats (another story) to

entertain me. I still missed Molly. Emotions are by nature non-
sensical.

It's amazing as a species how loving and sweet cats tend to be. Nine
times out of ten, you can go to a shelter and

find a feline friend who will always be there for you, or at least be
there for you when she's not accidentally locked

overnight in the linen cabinet, or leaping out of her little mind
inside a politically incorrect paper grocery bag.

But as you say, you can't go to the friends store and pick out someone
who will still love you and accept you

unconditionally ten years later.

So anyhow I'm taking up a lot of space to say that I don't think you
should worry about yourself. I think it's the

human race that's the problem; not humans who've found solace in cats.
One of the most wonderful things about cats is

that if you accidentally hurt them, step on their tail or whatever,
they'll come to you for comfort. It doesn't occur

to them that a friend can be intentionally hurtful. And if they do
fight, it's with each other. My current non-friend

cats haven't gotten it into their heads to escape and wage war on the
entire feline population of my neighborhood

simply because they don't like each other and are vying for the same
territory. And they're both still sweet and

loving to me.

So.... Either you're quite sane, or we're both nuts, along with a lot
of people who seem to have posted really kind

replies to your post.

On Nov 18, 8:34 pm, wrote:
Last night I had a very good friend over to visit. We were doing bead
jewelry together. We've been close friends for about 12 years.

Anyway, at some point during the evening, Roxy came by for a cuddle.
So I let her hang over my shoulder and purr, while I cooed and petted
her. And suddenly the thought came into my head, "I feel closer to
Roxy than I do to _____ (my friend)." It wasn't just an idle thought.
It's true!

On Nov 18, 8:34 pm, wrote:

Can anyone relate? Any suggestions? Reassurance that I'm not a social
failure (as far as anyone here can tell, of course)? Is this a symptom
of the Fall of Modern Civilization?



I've been wanting to reply to this, but have been pre-occupied with my
own problems. I've not been a very good friend. That being said, one
of the bad parts about being married to/or in the military is that you
lose people over the years and your best bet is to depend on your
immediate family for support. It's a sorta us against the outsiders
mentality, but as those of you who have been connected to the military
know, few civilians understand what we go through. You in this group
know because I whined (OK, still whine) about it a lot.

Roxy is a member of your family. Being a cat she can relate to a lot
of your problems more than any male can. Not only that, but since she
is not your bio-child and not of a younger generation, Roxy has no ax
to grind. She will not use what you tell her against you, accepts you
for who you are without condition, and loves you no matter what you
tell her. I wish human friends were like that.

However we all need the human touch. The hardest part for me in being
a friend is to be as accepting as the cats are. I am horrible about
spotting other people's faults and trying to help them out. Which
really means that I am or can be a stuck up prig, or is that pig?
I've been working on this one a long time, and I'm finally getting a
little more accepting of others. I have a problem with what we call
"willful stupidity" also known in Engvald land as "Here's Your
Sign." I'm getting better about listening and think that I might make
a good catley friend in a century or two. I'm just glad that you all
cut me a lot of slack.

Pam S. trying to be a better person than the witch that she is.