Abandoned Kitten - Day 2: Weeble Poops!!!

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...

Wasn't it? I don't mean to stereotype, but I often find Asians are
more well-versed in the English language than some of us who only have
the one language. (forgive me, Rona, if Asian isn't your
ethnicity).




You're right--partially :-). I am ethnically Asian (half Thai, half
Filipino) though I grew up in Canada and English is my first language. I
would agree that Asians can be more well-versed in the English language
(especially grammatically and in terms of vocabulary) though I would
probably refine it--it's the South-East Asians of privileged classes who
really know their stuff (though educated people from India are also very
adept). My parents were both very well-educated in their respective
countries and their knowledge of the English language puts even the English
of well-educated Americans to shame. It's all about the educational
system, I think.

ObCats: I like mine. She has some strange yet endearing behaviours. I
took her for a walk tonight and she kept chasing her leash. She was very
excited to go down to the end of the driveway, though. It was like new
territory for her.

rona
Stranger Cat and Miss Kitty
http://community.webshots.com/album/85325277afVZIl

David Yehudah wrote:

You're right, Joyce. In today's PC world using the correct term can
be confusing. As an American educated back in the pre-PC era,
1950's or so, I grew up with 'he' as the gender neutral and am
quite content with it.

It's not about "PC", it's about making people aware of how language
subtly affects the way people think. If a word conjures up images of
men in situations where either gender could be referred to, then
people aren't going to think about women in those situations.
Remember in "1984" when the government didn't want people to think
about certain concepts, they simply eliminated the word from the
language? Humans are a language-oriented species, it's a big part of
what defines us as a species. People who grow up without learning
language (eg, deaf people who weren't taught how to speak, read lips,
or use sign language) are often intellectually stunted later in life
and have trouble understanding abstract concepts. If they don't have
the words, they can't conceive of the ideas.

I tend to be a bit suspicious of that use of the phrase "PC", anyway.
To me, it always sounds like someone's saying, "I don't care about
your issues, I'm happy with the status quo, and I don't want to
bother trying to change." Granted, some people are phony about the
way they use "correct" terminology, because it's expected (in
corporate environments, the government, etc) or they want to make the
right impression, or appease people, etc. But that doesn't mean the
original impulse behind the issue is stupid or phony.

it doesn't strike me as being deliberately unfair. Notice I say
deliberately; it strikes me as being the result of common usage
rather than some evil plot to disenfranchise women.

No, language usage isn't deliberate, but I don't think that matters.
Cancer isn't deliberate either, but we try to get rid of it because
it's harmful.

To me it's a non issue

OK, how about we start using "she" as the generic pronoun for a while?
Just for the hell of it. Since it's a non-issue, no one should mind that!

It's a Cause; people pay it lip service to show they are Aware.

I agree - as I said before, there are a lot of people who pay lip
service because they're expected to, or they want to win brownie
points, or they'll get in trouble otherwise, etc. But just because
some people are full of BS doesn't mean the idea itself is BS.

For example, the sentence, "If a student comes to class late,
he'll just have to take whatever seat is available," becomes "Any
student who come in late will have to take whatever seat is
available." It's a grammatically correct usage without offending
anyone, except maybe late arrivals. :-)

That's an elegant way to do it, yes. Also you could cast it in the
plural: "Students who come in late will have to..."

(Now that late arrival thing - I might have a problem with that, as I
haven't been on time for anything since 1954, when I was born
prematurely. It's been downhill ever since!)

I sometimes think it's unfair the way people pick on English for
this usage, when most foreign languages are even worse.

Actually, I've seen changes in some Spanish constructions, such as
references to Spanish-speaking people as "Latinos/as", etc. Maybe we
just see English being picked on because we live in a mostly English-
speaking country?

For example, in Spanish the correct third person plural for a
group of women is 'ellas.' But if even one man intrudes on two
million females, then the correct term is 'ellos,' the masculine
form, even though there may be only one of him.

Yeah, I remember my first Spanish teacher talking about that. I guess
we're lucky because English is more gender-neutral than many
languages, such as the romance languages. I still think we need that
neutral generic 3rd person pronoun, though...

Joyce

Marina wrote:
would rather live in the past...), and I think it's time for language to
change with it.

You tell them girl!

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

wrote:

It's not about "PC", it's about making people aware of how language
subtly affects the way people think.

Well, you're right that language affects the way people think, but I'm
not sure that this issue is about that. I've been a language maven all
my life, even as a small child, and I never heard of this problem until
the feminists launched their gender neutral language attack in the late
60's - early 70's. Remember 'manhole cover' becoming 'personhole cover?'

(Now that late arrival thing - I might have a problem with that, as I
haven't been on time for anything since 1954, when I was born
prematurely. It's been downhill ever since!)

You mean the only time in your life you were early for something
traumatized you so much you've never done it again? :-)
1954 was avery good year; that's when Patty was born. She was also a
preemie. Her parents had only been married about 7 months at the time,
but she weighed a full 8 pounds.

Now don't you worry your pretty little head about it, Darling. Just go
back to the kitchen and let us menfolk take care stuff like that. We
don't want you getting confused with all this technical stuff.

David Yehudah wrote:

I never heard of this problem until the feminists launched their
gender neutral language attack in the late 60's - early 70's.
Remember 'manhole cover' becoming 'personhole cover?'

OK, so some people went overboard. That doesn't detract from the basic
issue in my book.

You mean the only time in your life you were early for something
traumatized you so much you've never done it again? :-)

Something like that, yeah! These days I'm on a schedule of going to bed
around 5 AM and getting up at 1 PM. I'm starting breakfast when normal
people are digesting lunch.

1954 was avery good year; that's when Patty was born.

Oh, she's my age? I thought you guys were much older. Were you born
around the same time, or is this a May-December thing?

She was also a
preemie. Her parents had only been married about 7 months at the time,
but she weighed a full 8 pounds.

Yeah, getting married late, after the pregnancy is under way can really
screw up fetal development!

Joyce

wrote:

David Yehudah wrote:

I never heard of this problem until the feminists launched their
gender neutral language attack in the late 60's - early 70's.
Remember 'manhole cover' becoming 'personhole cover?'

OK, so some people went overboard. That doesn't detract from the basic
issue in my book.

You mean the only time in your life you were early for something
traumatized you so much you've never done it again? :-)

Something like that, yeah! These days I'm on a schedule of going to bed
around 5 AM and getting up at 1 PM. I'm starting breakfast when normal
people are digesting lunch.

1954 was avery good year; that's when Patty was born.

Oh, she's my age? I thought you guys were much older. Were you born
around the same time, or is this a May-December thing?

She was also a
preemie. Her parents had only been married about 7 months at the time,
but she weighed a full 8 pounds.

Yeah, getting married late, after the pregnancy is under way can really
screw up fetal development!

Well, FWIW, I've read that, in many rural communities in Europe (until
fairly recently) the bride practically HAD to be pregnant - the
bridegroom wanted to be sure she was fertile before he'd commit himself!


Joyce

"Yowie" wrote in message
...
"Marina" wrote in message
...

wrote


No, language usage isn't deliberate, but I don't think that
matters.

I agree with you, Joyce. Language developes to reflect the realities
around
the speakers of that language. Thus, the 'neutral' use of he
reflects how
the male has been perceived as the norm, while the female was
considered a
deviance from the norm. As to romance languages, it's no surprise to
me
that
that usage is even stronger there, given the machismo cultures that
have
been prevalent in Spain and Italy (probably France, too). But the
world
has
changed a lot since these usages were adopted (except for some
people, who
would rather live in the past...), and I think it's time for
language to
change with it.

Reminds me of the old brain teaser tat foes something like:

A young boy is in an horrific accident and rushed to the hospital. The
head
doctor rushes out to meet the ambulance but on seeing the patient,
gasps in
horror, "I can't treat this patient, he is my son". Later, when
questioned,
the doctor denies being the boy's father. How could this be?

The answer is obvious, yet many people have to think for quite some
time
about what the solution is.

Until the solution is sodding obvious to everyone, innate sexism is
alive
and well.

Yowie (and yes, I had to think about it the first time I heard it, I'm
not
immune either)

I'm not sure anybody is immune. When I was flying (I'm a retired
private pilot), I always assumed the pilot of any other plane was male,
unless I knew otherwise. How dumb is that?

Joy

Hey. Hey! HEY! I just sound like an old fart. :-) I'm 12 years older
than Patty, which I guess is an improvement over her first husband who
was 24 years older than she.

wrote:

Oh, she's my age? I thought you guys were much older. Were you born
around the same time, or is this a May-December thing?