cat is a bully

"bigbadbarry" wrote in message
oups.com...


Mary wrote:

No, Kelly, I don't. I do like Barry but here he is wrong. And this
nonsense
about a difference between households run by men and women is really
scary. Marriage is a partnership. Some work better than others, but any
time any single person is dominating, what we have is something the ****
out of Deliverance--the dark ages--the Bad Old Days. It is ignorant
and dangerous. It is a dangerous product of ignorance. And a man who has
to raise his hand to anything weaker than himself is not a man at all.

You are wrong about me.

Mary is in fairy land. A close friend of ours is a licensed clinical social
worker, specializing in child abuse cases in a clinical setting (hospital).
Been doing this for 19 yrs. In passing, she told my wife and I that about
half of her cases are mothers abusing their children while the balance is
mostly boy friends of single mothers. And there is frequently drug or
alcohol abuse involved.

You seem so desperate to turn me into a brute retneck or something.
Your jumping on a bandwagon headed to nowhere because Barry is not any
of them things, neither do you find it in my writing.

You use words like ignorance, dark ages, deliverance, bad boys, what is
all this, who are you describing? It ain't me sista! And I tell ya, I
ain't taking the blame for your judgement call, if you extracted this
from what I wrote, then you was on a with hunt from the moment you saw
the words, bust that ass.

I got new for you, everybody that chastises a child or pet is not a
character from deliverance, or ignorant either. I don't use treats and
rewards. Treats are for dogs doing parlor tricks, cat's walking high
wires. I am good all the time, or at least I try. This is no
motivation, this is...how you train an animal.

There is no way, you read my words. It is impossible to write a hurtful
post like you did, having read what I wrote. I know you didn't.

Don't tell me, we're reading the same things, yeah, you all saw the
words bust that ass..then anger kicked in...and you took from there.

It's alright, it's not the first time I've ever been misunderstood.
Everybody I know, they love me. Animals, children, parents, women, all
of em. Because I handle my business, I don't put nobody down, I do
good, and good comes back. I have never beat my cat. I have never beat
any animal. I have swatted my cat, to save his life. yeah

Swatting my cat does not justify you calling me or making reference to
my beliefs as something out of ignorance.

To be swift in judgement about something you don't know about, well,
now what is this?


Barry, you are corresponding with a woman who is irrational, unreasonable,
spiritually adrift, and manipulative.

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
snip
Cats aren't human, and don't possess human emotions. Therefor,
human behavior that include punishments that are designed to
penetrate human emotion, or try to modify human behavior, do not
work on cats. It only succeeds in creating fear.

You just contradicted yourself. FEAR is one of the primal human emotions.
The other two are pleasure and pain. Three strong motivators that promote or
discourge actions and behaviors.

Cats only react positvely to positive reinforcement.

Rubbish.

Reward desired behavior with pleasant memories for the cat.
Anything negative is going to scar their version of emotions.

--
Cheryl

Again you contradicted yourself.

"KellyH" wrote in message
...
"Mary" wrote
This is the same stupid bitch who would not take her kitten to the vet
when
he had a broken tail. Her "pure bred" kitten that she intended to breed.
Then lied about it.
It has to be a full moon.



It is? Crap. I can't keep up with who said what anymore. I just
answered another question from her in a different thread. Hope the
grandbabies don't get spanked

People keep saying that if you don't hit or spank, the child (or cat, in
this case) isn't disciplined. Not true. There are many ways to discipline
without hitting. Go watch Supernanny, she actually has a lot of good
discipline techniques.

--
-Kelly

I want to see Mary on the Naughty Mat and out of range of a keyboard for a
week. LOL

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:18:33 GMT, "RobR" wrote:


I don't want to get rid of Brak or Zena, but I'm not sure what I can do
to change Brak's behavior. Wife is at home all day and says it happens
several times a day. Any help greatly appreciated.



Try putting Brak on a halter for some time each day. Some cats think
they can't run and attack while wearing a halter. I do this with Chase
and he goes from devilboy to angelboy. We call it his twisted halo.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:48:18 -0400, Joe Canuck
wrote:


Ragdolls don't fight.

Laying on their backs is one of their characteristic behaviors.

Bengals are entirely another issue.



Jay Jay is the most mild cat you have ever seen. He lets a 7lb kitty
boss him around. He even let the elderly Maynard boss him around. He
loves to lay on his back and lounge around.

But when he plays, being on the back os to rabbit kick. And he has
quite the force. He can hurt me easily just in play.

Just because a cat is non-agressive, and doesn't set out to fight,
doesn't mean it won't play in this posture. Or protect itself when
attacked.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:38:02 -0400, "KellyH"
wrote:


DO NOT add fuel to the fire by yelling, getting in between the fight, using
a water pistol, etc. This will teach Brak that Zena is a negative thing and
also get him even more riled up. I have dealt with this situation with one
dominant cat and one wimpy cat. I also wish I could just tell wimpy cat to
stand up for herself, but she does the same thing, hisses if he walks by,
starts running if he even looks at her, etc. It has gotten much better than
it was though.


I had a situation like this many years ago when one cat started
attacking the other on sight. It became a horrible cycle as Tove would
attack because Maynard ran. And Maynard would run because Tov would
attack.

It took me 8 months, but I solved the problem. The first 3 months was
Maynard learning to feel safe again. He had the run of the basement
and was not allowed upstairs. And Tov was not allowed downstairs. The
first 2 months, Maynard didn't even want up. I waited longer to make
sure he was really good and secure and knew that the basement was
completely safe.

Then, I started giving him short periods of time upstairs while Tov
was locked away. He was really spooky for a few months. So, he needed
hours of time upstairs without being attacked (or even seeing his
enemy). But he could smell her and know that she was still there. Tov
didn't get as much training during this time. But she did know he was
in those neuttral areas.

Once Maynard was comfortable being loose in the upstairs, I started
holding him while letting Tov into the same room. Each got to see the
other, but neither one could do anything more than stare. I made sure
that Maynard couldn't run, and of course Tov could not attack. They
needed to get used to seeing each other and NOT taking action. Tov
needed to see that Maynard doesn't always run. And Maynard needed to
see that Tov doesn't always attack. Basic reconditioning.

Once Maynard was relaxed with this step, I decided to reverse the
process. Let him loose and have Tov on the leash. This worked
extremely well as Tov was so uncomfortable with the halter that she
felt she could not even walk. She just laid there on the floor like an
idiot.

So, we started doing that. She was completely harmless and Maynard was
safe. We did this stage for a few weeks, and then let them both loose
while supervised.

After a total of 8 months (we took it slow, no rush), we were able to
leave them both loose, unsupervised, with no more attacks. They were
never buddies, but they were able to walk past each other, calmly,
with no problems.

It was well worth the time and effort.

And with Chase, we just put the halter on him on occasion, and he goes
back to being good.





--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:10:09 -0400, "Phil P."
wrote:


Brak's behavior is not the problem- Zena is the instigator. She's wary of
Brak and her wariness is probably provoking Brak and inducing the attacks.
Punishing him is also inflamming the situation because he's associating the
punishment with Zena's presence.


Yes, once it gets to this point, the victim is acting like prey, and
that just encourages the bully to continue. This is what happened with
Tov and Maynard. He squealed and ran away, just like a mouse would.



--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Barry, how many children have you raised? How did they turn out?

Rhonda

bigbadbarry wrote:


I am willing to bet that the households you volunteered to mention are
predominately ran by women. Tell me Im wrong. This is not a bad thing,
but with women and children; it's a little different when a female is
calling the shots. Quite different.

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:26:45 -0500, "Catnipped"
wrote:

It's not the pain that causes the damage... as anyone who has ever been
through childbirth can testify, pain is quickly forgotten (or there would
never be a mother with more than one child except for the mothers of twins).
It's the *fear* that causes the damage.

Exactly.

My dad doesn't hit the cats (or people for that matter), but he does
throw things and bang things when he gets angry sometimes. And Chase
is afraid of him. He will occassionaly come up and sniff a hand. But
my dad cannot pick up that cat for anything.

On the other hand, I can yell at Chase while he is attacking Kira, and
he will stop and come to me instantly. He does his little whine (sort
of like - "but she made me do it"). But he does come to me. And even
when I am holding the halter, he comes and lets me put it on him. He
even purrs.

It is really nice to have them trust you enough, that even when they
are in trouble, they will come to you and let you pick them up.

The only time I hurt my cats is by accident. And I always apologize so
that they know it was not intended. They have come to know that I can
be a clutz, and it is best not to stick their tails under my feet.


--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:09:51 -0500, "Catnipped"
wrote:


I don't think that correction means malice, I think correction means just
that - correcting bad behavior by exampling restraint and rewarding good
behavior. Children who are not spanked are not unhappy - children who are
not disciplined are unhappy, but as I've explained spanking and discipline
are not only two different things, they are polar opposites.


Especially with animals and very small children. The punishment
(discipline) needs to be understandable to the child/animal.

And very small chidlren (and animals) are not capable of planning for
the future. Thus, they do behaviors without thought to future
punishment. And they often cannot relate the punishment to the crime.

For example. If you find a mess (overturned trash can, or bathroom
accident), the dog or cat will not associate the punishment with the
mess. They will associate the punishment with whatever happened at the
moment you punished them.

So, when I finally got mad and screamed at my dog for yet another
indoor accident, she associated it with me entering the room. She
cowered every time I entered the room for over a week. It didn't solve
the problem, and I made my dog afraid of me.

What solved the housebreaking issue? I put her on a leash. It was that
simple. Three days of keeping her on a leash in the house. The main
reason was so that I could not accidentally leave her alone. Since she
was never alone, she never had the chance to mess in the house. Also,
by putting her on the leash and making her follow me around the house,
I showed her that I was in charge. Not only did I establish that I was
in control (leader of the pack), I gave her the confidence that I
would take care of things. She became more relaxed the very first day.
She no longer had to worry about things. I was in charge. And the
"rules" were now obvious.

I never hit her. Even a firm "NO" was punishment enough for her.

Discipline is more about consistency and making the right thing easy
to do and the wrong thing hard to do.

Make it easy for them to do the right thing and then reward them for
it.
--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com