Just read about what is really in cat food

Gaubster2 wrote:
I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I
say.

Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of
information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a
lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that.

But let's play your game. Why don't you
prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats
and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I
maintain that they are not.

Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA. They would know
what they're talking about.
Here's another article:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm

"Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in
pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence
it happens.
The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of
sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some
brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center
for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces
are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said."

On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food:
http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml

"Also, I have contacted three forensic labs and all have stated that it
would be virtually impossible to detect any dog and cat DNA in a product
that had been rendered and then processed."

And more on Sodium Pentobarbitol in pet food:

http://members.rogers.com/anmartin1/cvm.html



Let's see your
federal statutes that say such a practice is
not only allowed, but common.

I have NEVER said a word about whether it is common or if it is done at
all. And you don't need a statute for something that is allowed. Duh.
It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it
up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so
numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Gaubster2 Wrote:

The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her
research in the 60s and 70s and is the
subject of this whole debate.

The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of
*disinformation.*

If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first
started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was
first published in 1997.

Dead dogs and cats aren't used in pet
foods in the US. If they are, it is illegal.

Prove it.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Gaubster2 Wrote:

The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her
research in the 60s and 70s and is the
subject of this whole debate.

The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of
*disinformation.*

If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first
started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was
first published in 1997.

Dead dogs and cats aren't used in pet
foods in the US. If they are, it is illegal.

Prove it.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it
up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so
numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument.


You're not very patient, then. I should have something in a few days.

Gaubster2 wrote:
I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I
say.

Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of
information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a
lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that.

While you may rely on the internet for all of your "proof", I don't. No matter
how many times you say it, I'm not backpedaling. I really wish you would quit
spinning the issue.

But let's play your game. Why don't you
prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats
and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I
maintain that they are not.

Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA.

No, you didn't "prove" it. You're relying on someone else to do "your"
research. You don't know the person in the story from Adam. Do you?



Here's another article:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm

A lot of allegations, but no proof. This, btw, is recycled news footage that
makes it's way across the country when they need to fill time during the news.
It made it's way here to the local Portland news last Nov (2002). They made
all kinds of allegations, yet no finger-pointing at any given company--no
proof. I called the news station to find out more information and was told
that they frequently run "human interest" stories from around the country and
that it was just a tape that they provided voice-overs for. According to the
local station, they were given a script to read over the footage to "localize"
it. See what I mean about scare tactics? Fear sells.

"Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in
pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence
it happens.
The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of
sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some
brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center
for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces
are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said."

Read the quote closely. The first sentence is opinion, not fact. As for the
"some evidence it happens", the pentobarbital was eventually determined to
originate from cattle; it's used to put down cattle (a source of beef found in
some pet foods). Once all of the facts are examined, the truth becomes
self-evident. If you take things out of context, then you run into problems.




On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food:
http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml


Nice opinion piece, but not all sides of the issue are represented. This gal
says she fed a kibble that had "human grade" ingredients. There is no such
thing in pet foods. So right away she is wrong. Once a pet food ingredient
(regardless of how high quality it is) enters a pet food factory, it
automatically become "unfit for human consumption". That's the rule. If you
were to buy a roast from your butcher, go home, and then decide to return it
for some reason, the butcher (by law) can't resell the meat--it has to get
thrown out...even though there is nothing wrong w/ it. And just the fact that
she is getting "Ann Martin's take on it" suggests that she is picking and
choosing her subject matter. Hardly "fair and balanced".

Anything you quote from Ann Martin should be taken w/ a grain of salt. She has
made a fortune selling fear to unsuspecting and well-meaning pet owners.

It's clear you are not going to prove what you say or in any way back it
up with facts, despte the fact that you have been asked to do so
numerous times. That IS backpedaling and AFAIC you've lost the argument.


You're not very patient, then. I should have something in a few days.

Gaubster2 wrote:
I'm not backpedaling, I stand by what I
say.

Then why you can't you prove it? You have not posted one item of
information that backs up or verifies your claim, but you have spent a
lot of energy *avoiding* doing just that.

While you may rely on the internet for all of your "proof", I don't. No matter
how many times you say it, I'm not backpedaling. I really wish you would quit
spinning the issue.

But let's play your game. Why don't you
prove to me that I'm wrong and that cats
and dogs ARE ALLOWED in pet food. I
maintain that they are not.

Again I already proved it with a quote from the FDA.

No, you didn't "prove" it. You're relying on someone else to do "your"
research. You don't know the person in the story from Adam. Do you?



Here's another article:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-03.htm

A lot of allegations, but no proof. This, btw, is recycled news footage that
makes it's way across the country when they need to fill time during the news.
It made it's way here to the local Portland news last Nov (2002). They made
all kinds of allegations, yet no finger-pointing at any given company--no
proof. I called the news station to find out more information and was told
that they frequently run "human interest" stories from around the country and
that it was just a tape that they provided voice-overs for. According to the
local station, they were given a script to read over the footage to "localize"
it. See what I mean about scare tactics? Fear sells.

"Still, it is not illegal to use rendered material from dogs and cats in
pet food. And while no one keeps official figures, there's some evidence
it happens.
The Food and Drug Administration has found "very, very low levels" of
sodium pentobarbital--the chemical used to euthanize animals--in some
brands of dog food, said Stephen Sundloff, director of the FDA's Center
for Veterinary Medicine. The agency is investigating whether the traces
are "of any significance at all," Sundloff said."

Read the quote closely. The first sentence is opinion, not fact. As for the
"some evidence it happens", the pentobarbital was eventually determined to
originate from cattle; it's used to put down cattle (a source of beef found in
some pet foods). Once all of the facts are examined, the truth becomes
self-evident. If you take things out of context, then you run into problems.




On DNA testing for cats and dogs in pet food:
http://www.supersonicjane.com/rants/pfood.shtml


Nice opinion piece, but not all sides of the issue are represented. This gal
says she fed a kibble that had "human grade" ingredients. There is no such
thing in pet foods. So right away she is wrong. Once a pet food ingredient
(regardless of how high quality it is) enters a pet food factory, it
automatically become "unfit for human consumption". That's the rule. If you
were to buy a roast from your butcher, go home, and then decide to return it
for some reason, the butcher (by law) can't resell the meat--it has to get
thrown out...even though there is nothing wrong w/ it. And just the fact that
she is getting "Ann Martin's take on it" suggests that she is picking and
choosing her subject matter. Hardly "fair and balanced".

Anything you quote from Ann Martin should be taken w/ a grain of salt. She has
made a fortune selling fear to unsuspecting and well-meaning pet owners.

The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her
research in the 60s and 70s and is the
subject of this whole debate.

The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of
*disinformation.*

If that label fit me, I would go around perpuating these kinds of myths. I'm
simply trying to set the record straight and you don't want to believe it.
Whatever.

If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first
started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was
first published in 1997.

You're full of crap. DO YOUR RESEARCH. LOOK IT UP. I've seen the book before
and it was originally published in the late '70s (I want to say 1978 or '79)
She has simply re-released her book. I don't know why you are being so
argumentative. Do you really believe that dead dogs and cats are ground up and
used in pet foods? Please answer that question. Then prove it. Please tell
me and all the others, which companies to stay away from. Which companies are
the biggest offenders? And then perhaps, since you feel so strongly about the
subject, you would like to start a campaign to get "them" to change their
tactics.

The problem here is that the site is
referencing Ann Martin who did her
research in the 60s and 70s and is the
subject of this whole debate.

The problem here is that you are determined to become the minister of
*disinformation.*

If that label fit me, I would go around perpuating these kinds of myths. I'm
simply trying to set the record straight and you don't want to believe it.
Whatever.

If you can't post accurately, don't post at all. Ann Martin first
started investigating the pet food industry in 1990, and her book was
first published in 1997.

You're full of crap. DO YOUR RESEARCH. LOOK IT UP. I've seen the book before
and it was originally published in the late '70s (I want to say 1978 or '79)
She has simply re-released her book. I don't know why you are being so
argumentative. Do you really believe that dead dogs and cats are ground up and
used in pet foods? Please answer that question. Then prove it. Please tell
me and all the others, which companies to stay away from. Which companies are
the biggest offenders? And then perhaps, since you feel so strongly about the
subject, you would like to start a campaign to get "them" to change their
tactics.

Steve wrote:
snip proof of his utter inabilty to comprehend the written word

Steve, do you know how to comprehend?
NOWHERE have I made the claim that there are cats and dogs in pet food.
NOWHERE have I made claims that a food labeled as chicken would have
cats or dogs instead. My whole point of the post you quoted was that
using cats and dogs in pet food is *not* illegal.

Gaubster2 claims it is but has yet to post proof. I have not entered the
cats/dogs in pet food debate other than to say it is not illegal for
companies to use them, which you have just confirmed. While I believe it
is "possible" that this happens, I have not formed an opinion on whether
it does because I don't have enough evidence to do so. I've been over
this *several* times in this thread already and if you can't ****ing
figure it out by now then go back to school and learn how to read.
Sheesh.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Steve wrote:
snip proof of his utter inabilty to comprehend the written word

Steve, do you know how to comprehend?
NOWHERE have I made the claim that there are cats and dogs in pet food.
NOWHERE have I made claims that a food labeled as chicken would have
cats or dogs instead. My whole point of the post you quoted was that
using cats and dogs in pet food is *not* illegal.

Gaubster2 claims it is but has yet to post proof. I have not entered the
cats/dogs in pet food debate other than to say it is not illegal for
companies to use them, which you have just confirmed. While I believe it
is "possible" that this happens, I have not formed an opinion on whether
it does because I don't have enough evidence to do so. I've been over
this *several* times in this thread already and if you can't ****ing
figure it out by now then go back to school and learn how to read.
Sheesh.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

wrote in message ...
Steve wrote:

Steve, do you know how to comprehend?
NOWHERE have I made the claim that there are cats and dogs in pet food.
NOWHERE have I made claims that a food labeled as chicken would have
cats or dogs instead. My whole point of the post you quoted was that
using cats and dogs in pet food is *not* illegal.

Let's try again - The substitution of an adulterated ingredient in
place of any legally identified and described ingredient by AAFCO is
ILLEGAL!! No ifs, no buts, no maybes.

You're trying to split hairs here, and tiny thin ones at that. Reality
is that the vast majority of pet foods use a described meat meal -
chicken, lamb, beef, kangaroo, ostrich, duck etc. Very few use the
generic term "meat meal". *AND* even in that case FDA and USDA testing
proved that there was no trace of cat or dog DNA in the hundreds of
foods tested. Yes, it may be "legal" but in reality there are no dead
dogs and cats in 99.999999% of pet food. In most cases I suggest
dealing with reality rather than lunatic fringe conspiracy madness.
It's also legal to chase skunks at midnight on a full moon, but I
haven't met any successful skunk hunters. Spend your time on something
that really affects pets, not silly nonsense from the lunatic fringe.