If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#501
|
|||
|
|||
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: On 2005-02-19, Diane L. Schirf penned: Native Americans used sphagnum moss and seeds high in estrogen to prevent pregnancies as well. There are seeds high in estrogen? Interesting. Phytoestrogens - soy, yam, flax seeds, walnuts, etc. An natural abortifacient is tansy (black cohosh as well). -L. |
#502
|
|||
|
|||
On 2005-02-21, -L. penned:
Meghan Noecker wrote: It is one rare case I would be willing to accept, but I hate seeing that and health of the mother brought up in every argument as if it is more common than irresponsible people getting pregnant. Do you seriously think that the only people getting abortions are the irresponsible? I hate to tell you but birth control fails - often. Especially barrier methods. And the "natural family planning" method you want to teach teens has the worse failure rate of all. An estimated 43% of women will have at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old. (http://www.guttmacher.org) Do you believe that 43% of the female population isn't using birth control? I think her point is that by having sex, you take responsibility for the consequences. She feels that it is irresponsible to have sex if you are not willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence. It makes sense because she sees a fetus as a child. It's certainly something I've thought about. I am married. I do not feel that I am financially or emotionally ready to have a child, and I may never be. I'm a control freak, and the idea of having something take over my body in the way a pregnancy does has zero appeal. But I still have sex. We practice safer sex, but what would I do if I were pregnant? I think it's important to ask the question, but I think it's impossible for me to answer, especially when I suspect that your body starts influencing your brain in these matters once you're pregnant. Keeping a baby you don't want, well, that sounds like a nice recipe for child abuse. So does adoption - fostering, as Meghan's story (about her SIL I believe?) suggested, and it would require that I put my body through significant changes, some permanent. I think I know what I'd do, but I hope I never have to make the decision. None of the options are good. I don't see a fetus too young to survive on its own as a person or a child, though. It has potential, yes, but to me it is simply a part of the mother's body. Well, maybe not simply, but if I had to give a simple answer, that's what I'd say. I've never heard the statistic of 43% by 45yo. That sounds really high, but I don't have the time to check the source right now. I would not be surprised if 43% of the female population has made some poor choices in birth control, like not insisting the guy withdraw instantly when wearing a condom or taking the pill inconsistently. -- monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca |
#503
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks Lesley! I know what you mean - Jessie, who turns 5 this year, is still very much a kitten. Here's a movie of her chasing the red dot greeble: http://www.possibleplaces.com/jessie_movie/ Brilliant! I am getting a telepathic message from my owners "we WANT a red dot greeble of our own!" Lesley Slave to the Fabulous Furballs |
#504
|
|||
|
|||
"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
... I was suggesting that they would know when they were definitely *not* safe. And avoid sex on those days at least. It's bad enough playing roulette, but why do it if you know the bullet is in the chamber? Also, temperature is only one clue. Yes, I know. After all the trouble I went through to get pregnant, I feel like I know more about fertility and menstrual cycles than a gynocologist. Not to gross out the guys, but there's the feel of your cervix, cervical fluid, etc. But, you really can't do that type of charting without taking your basal body temp, unless you are using Ovulation Predictor Kits. There's also the added complications of: your cycle being thrown off (stress, illness, travel, etc, can do this), and not having regular cycles to begin with. And, a woman is usually much more "in the mood" when she is ovulating, makes it harder to avoid sex. -- -Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG |
#505
|
|||
|
|||
"Meghan Noecker" wrote in message
... What I am saying is that abortion is comparable to us giving up on finding homes for cats and just go ahead and euthanize them now. I never said that anybody does that. In fact, that is why I am so surprised from the reaction on this group. People here will attack anybody who wants to breed (and add to the cats being euthanized), but many don't see any problem with abortion. It's basically the same thing. Healthy babies being killed for lack of homes. Unfortunately, thousands of cats are being euthanized for lack of homes. This has NOTHING to do with abortion, and is completely an apples and oranges situation. You seem to forget that nine months in between that the woman has to carry this baby. If the pregnancy is unwanted, do you think she will take care of herself and the baby? What if she is messed up and depressed about the whole situation? What if there are factors such as an abusive boyfriend, or incredibly strict parents who would throw her out if they found out about it? Also, you seem to be forgetting about the pain of having to give up a child for adoption. Like it's so easy: here you go, take my baby. Many women would rather have an abortion than put themselves through that. I am of the "safe, legal, and rare" mindset, in case you were wondering. However, I do think there should be more counseling of all available options, including adoption, and post-abortion counseling. It is not an easy choice to make, but I believe women should have the choice. -- -Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG |
#506
|
|||
|
|||
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: snip Do you seriously think that the only people getting abortions are the irresponsible? I hate to tell you but birth control fails - often. Especially barrier methods. And the "natural family planning" method you want to teach teens has the worse failure rate of all. An estimated 43% of women will have at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old. (http://www.guttmacher.org) Do you believe that 43% of the female population isn't using birth control? I think her point is that by having sex, you take responsibility for the consequences. She feels that it is irresponsible to have sex if you are not willing to accept pregnancy as a consequence. Oh, I see. It makes sense because she sees a fetus as a child. It's certainly something I've thought about. I am married. I do not feel that I am financially or emotionally ready to have a child, and I may never be. I'm a control freak, and the idea of having something take over my body in the way a pregnancy does has zero appeal. But I still have sex. We practice safer sex, but what would I do if I were pregnant? I think it's important to ask the question, but I think it's impossible for me to answer, especially when I suspect that your body starts influencing your brain in these matters once you're pregnant. Keeping a baby you don't want, well, that sounds like a nice recipe for child abuse. Absolutely. So does adoption - fostering, as Meghan's story (about her SIL I believe?) suggested, and it would require that I put my body through significant changes, some permanent. Yep. But as an adoptive Mom, let me tell you it is the most beautiful gift anyone can give to their child. I couldn't carry a baby to term and then choose to place him/her with an adoptive family. I thank my son's Birthmom every day for being strong enough to do so. I think with open and semi-open adoption, it is more of a win-win situation - the birthmom/birthfamily gets to know the child is ok, safe and happy. But like you said, the physical/emotional ramifications for the Birthmom are tremendous. FWIW, most Birthmoms and women who choose abortion already have at least one child and cite financial reasons for why they make the choice they did. I think I know what I'd do, but I hope I never have to make the decision. None of the options are good. I don't see a fetus too young to survive on its own as a person or a child, though. It has potential, yes, but to me it is simply a part of the mother's body. Well, maybe not simply, but if I had to give a simple answer, that's what I'd say. I agree. I've never heard the statistic of 43% by 45yo. That sounds really high, but I don't have the time to check the source right now. I would not be surprised if 43% of the female population has made some poor choices in birth control, like not insisting the guy withdraw instantly when wearing a condom or taking the pill inconsistently. Well, obviously many people just have unprotected sex. But a lot of unwanted pregnancies result in situations where people use birth control consistently, especially barrier methods like the diaphragm. I know more than one diaphragm baby. -L. |
#507
|
|||
|
|||
"-L." wrote in
oups.com: Here's Tosh when she was younger: http://groups.msn.com/idontmindsComp.../shoebox.msnw? action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=9 She's terminally ill with an inoperable tumor. :*( Such a cutie! I'm so sorry about her illness, that is so hard. --Catherine |
#508
|
|||
|
|||
"Diane L. Schirf" wrote in message ink.net... In article , (Meghan Noecker) wrote: Why do you assume that the biological sex drive has anything to do with whether or not the partner gives a damn? A lot of it's just "I want to put my thing in a hole" or "I want my hole filled." Especially as teenagers. Sorry to be so blunt, but from what I've seen of teenage behavior, it's true. So we are no better than the strays in the street. Only if you are a teenager. I know I'm not. -- What do you mean here? |
#509
|
|||
|
|||
Hum. . . I guess I fall into that cat-agory of people who should not
own pets. I live (barely) pay check to pay check, but I have a cat and have always had at least one cat. I also care for a small colony of feral cats. These ferals are now on a TNR waiting list and I have had to ask for a bit of assistance with their food, if they have what these kitties are used to eating. If they don't have the same brand, well, I'll find another way, because the animals always eat even when I don't. They always seem to eat better than I do, even in the best of times! My house cat is 11 years old and has not had any serious illnesses, but at her advanced age I know it won't stay that way. What will I do if a major medical problems comes up? I will deal with it the best way I can. The same as I have dealt with all the other financial obligation I have had to deal with over my lifetime. I'm in my late 50's so I've dealt with a lot! I have had my share of animals that have had to be put down because of terminal illness, poisoning, what have you. I have worked for animal shelters where it was one of my duties to chose the most adoptable puppies and kittens and then assist when it was time to put the unfortunate ones down. It is NEVER easy, not even when the situation calls for such drastic measures (and I don't mean because the animal just happened to be born!) PEOPLE are the BIGGEST CAUSE for animal over population in this country or any other as far as that goes and until all people take responsibility for their pets, the problem will not end. I mean, what is so damned hard about having your pet spayed or neutered? Yes, it can be expensive, but there are a good many low cost clinics available. The spay/neuter issue is the one thing people need to allow for when they get a new pet; most shelters make it mandatory and even offer reduced fees. Breeders of purebred cats make it mandatory for all the pet quality animals they sell. Policing these requirements is a problem, but there are ways it can be done. Some breeders won't even allow a pet quality kitten or puppy go to their new home until after they have been fixed. The feral colony I am caring for would not be there if some PERSON hadn't abandoned their INTACT pet. Instead of burning all this energy discussing how much money one would spend to save their beloved pet, why not expend some energy discussing how you can best assist in the effort to establish low cost spay/neuter clinics where you live and in locating and caring for the feral animals in your neighborhoods as well as establishing a TNR Program to manage the over-population problem? For those of you already involved in these efforts, KUDOS to you! Hemma |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[Really OT!] Price Estimate Help | Jeanne Hedge | Cat anecdotes | 33 | August 25th 04 02:07 PM |
veterinary drugs in UK - where can I get in EEC at reasonable price ? | icarus | Cat health & behaviour | 6 | June 14th 04 04:52 PM |