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#21
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"Candace" wrote in message oups.com... Phil P. wrote: Speak to your vet about Rutin (available from the Solgar Vitamin Co., Lynbrook, NY- and probably your local pharmacy) at about 50 to 100 mg/kg orally every 8 hr. I can't say with absolute certainty that Rutin cured our chylo cats by itself or if the chylo resolved spontaneously- but after a few months of low-fat diets and thoracentesis as necessary to relieve dyspnea and limit fibrosing pleuritis, both cats pulled through. A U of Minn study done on 4 chylo cats showed clinical improvement in 3 and *complete* resolution in 2 of the 4 cats-- So, I'd say its definitely worth a shot. Best hopes & wishes for you and Abbey. Phil Thanks, Phil. Yes, we got some Rutin today. I had read about it and the vet said it wouldn't hurt. They're big horse pills but we'll cut them down and try to find a smaller pill meanwhile. Cut 'em down and put the pieces in small gelcaps. We're also going to do Vitamin E to help the scarring. Great idea! A few months of thoracentesis? Wow, I hope I can afford that. Actually, trying to remember- it was about 2 months- and only 3 or 4 times- it was awhile ago. Were these cats diagnosed with idiopathic chylo or was there an underlying cause determined? We never found the cause. One vet thought it might have been caused by trauma- but the thoracic duct heals pretty fast- usually within a week a two and the chylo effusion usually resolves by itself without any treatment. So, I don't think it was caused by trauma. There are many other possible causes, but neither cat had any evidence of any of them. That study makes me more determined to continue on with the taps. Maybe my vets will work something out with me... Before Abbey has another thoracentesis, you might want to do an ultrasound- the chyle actually *helps*- it acts like an "accoustic window" and enhances the images. Plus, you can tilt the body to move the chyle where you want it to get a really good image. You might find the 'leak' or at least from where the chyle is seeping. It might not be a hole but rather seeping through the TD wall. If you can pinpoint the location of the seepage- TD ligation wouldn't be that difficult. Do you have an opinion about Vitamin E for the scarring? The vet said that wouldn't hurt either so we're trying that, too. I guess at this point nothing much "hurts." I didn't try it- but it sure sounds like a good idea! I wish one of us would have thought of it! Did your chylo cats stay on lasix, too? Did they remain on it permanently? No. The chylo resolved completely. Do you have a link to the U of Minn study? That is very encouraging as is the fact that your 2 chylo cats resolved. Here's the abstract with the journal citation. Your vet should have the original journal with the full text study. "J Am Vet Med Assoc 1999 Aug 1;215(3):345-8, 339 Use of rutin for medical management of idiopathic chylothorax in four cats. Thompson MS, Cohn LA, Jordan RC Department of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Missouri-Columbia 65211, USA. Four cats with idiopathic chylothorax were given rutin. Three of the 4 cats had clinical improvement, and complete resolution of chylous effusion was evident in 2 cats. Idiopathic chylothorax in cats is a condition that may be difficult to resolve with medical or surgical treatment. Currently, thoracic duct ligation is considered the preferred technique, but expense and a guarded prognosis for resolution may make this procedure undesirable to cat owners. Rutin administration may offer an alternative to traditional treatments or may be useful as an adjunctive treatment. PMID: 10434971, UI: 99363829" The one vet was going to give theophylline orally but the other vet kind of talked him out of it and said it wouldn't really help. Theophylline is a bronchial dilator and may also dilate veins and the TD- which may not be such a good idea. Removing even a tiny amount of chyle improves ventilation dramatically. Right now, I have to coax her to eat with a/d and I know that's high fat. Do you know of any tasty low fat diets? "Tasty low fat-fat diet"?? I don't know of any. I mixed a little catnip in r/d- the cats ate enough of it. Keep the faith! Best hopes & wishes, Phil |
#22
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Mary wrote:
I wonder if the Rutin and the other things you need to give her could be ground into a favorite food for the 18 days you will be alone? Rutin and the other citrus bioflavonoids are present in the white stuff inside an orange peel, so it should not taste bad. (I ground my cat's Tapazole for about a week and put it in her cat food but it tastes so bad she detected it and would not eat it all.) I'm worried about you trying to pill her by yourself for nearly three weeks. Me, too. It makes me sick thinking about it. It takes 2 of us to drag her out from wherever she's hiding as, of course, she *knows* when we're getting ready to pill her. I already have half the house blocked off from her but it's impossible to get rid of all the hidey holes. Then we have to burrito wrap her so her paws are restricted. Even sick, she's a fighter. I'll have to taste the Rutin and see if it tastes citrus-y. Hope not. The thing is she's not eating much right now and only eats a/d if I spoon feed her so hiding the pills is hard as she is just licking at the spoon. Once she has her appetite back, I can try to stick it in something but cats are just smarter than dogs and harder to trick. I may have to get my neighbor to come in and help me round her up but I think that would scare Abbey plus I really can't expect this woman to do it in the mornings, maybe for the evening dose, but not the morning one. Candace |
#23
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I guess at some point, TBD, when/if it happens again, when I take her in, I will have to choose euthanasia instead of the draining. If you feel so inclined, she is accepting prayers, good thoughts, and positive energy here in Phoenix, if you want to send some her way. Candace Hang in there Candace. I have been thinking about Abbey and hoping for a miracle. I'm really glad you posted her story--I was really hoping Phil would have some answers for you. Sherry |
#24
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"Phil P." wrote in message ... "Mary" wrote in message ... "Phil P." wrote in message ... Candace, Speak to your vet about Rutin (available from the Solgar Vitamin Co., Lynbrook, NY- and probably your local pharmacy) at about 50 to 100 mg/kg orally every 8 hr. I can't say with absolute certainty that Rutin cured our chylo cats by itself or if the chylo resolved spontaneously- but after a few months of low-fat diets and thoracentesis as necessary to relieve dyspnea and limit fibrosing pleuritis, both cats pulled through. It this the rutin that is, along with hesperidin, part of C-complex? Yup. Its an OTC. And if I recall correctly its primary function is to strengthen the small blood vessels--like the capillaries? |
#25
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Phil P. wrote:
"J Am Vet Med Assoc 1999 Aug 1;215(3):345-8, 339 Thanks! Theophylline is a bronchial dilator and may also dilate veins and the TD- which may not be such a good idea. Removing even a tiny amount of chyle improves ventilation dramatically. Ew, I hope the aminophylline injection they gave didn't dilate the TD. Please see my other question to you uinder Hopitus' reply. Thank you for your help. Candace |
#26
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"Phil P." wrote in message ... "Mary" wrote in message ... "Candace" wrote : Thanks, Phil. Yes, we got some Rutin today. I had read about it and the vet said it wouldn't hurt. They're big horse pills but we'll cut them down and try to find a smaller pill meanwhile. We're also going to do Vitamin E to help the scarring. I wonder if the Rutin and the other things you need to give her could be ground into a favorite food for the 18 days you will be alone? Rutin and the other citrus bioflavonoids are present in the white stuff inside an orange peel, Cats *hate* oranges and orange peels. People put orange peels in flower pots to keep the cats away. I knew that, I guess I was just thinking that anything must taste better than Tapazole judging from Buddha's reaction to it when I did put it in her food. |
#27
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Phil P. wrote:
Chylo is caused by leakage or extravasation of chyle from a thoracic duct or one its tiny branches- that's why surgical correction is so difficult. Chylo is a real sneaky disease that's usually not detectable with routine yearly exams- until its well established and the cat shows difficulty breathing and weight loss. I was sweating bullets during the entire Rutin therapy because the longer we waited to see if the Rutin was working the greater the risk of the cat developing irreversible fibrosing pleuritis from the constant exposure of chyle. I was sure glad it all worked out- I never would have forgiven myself if I made the wrong call. Phil, what does this mean? Can't she be tapped once she's on Rutin? Or did you just mean that you couldn't *know* if the chyle was building up? Because if she's on Rutin and her breathing gets bad, I would want her tapped again. Nothing about Rutin contraindicates tapping, does it? Candace |
#28
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wrote:
Hang in there Candace. I have been thinking about Abbey and hoping for a miracle. I'm really glad you posted her story--I was really hoping Phil would have some answers for you. Yes, and he did. I feel a little encouraged. I wanted to see what other people said; I guess I was ready to get feedback now and everyone has been nice. Thank you, she'll gladly accept a miracle. Candace |
#29
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"Mary" wrote in message ... "Phil P." wrote in message ... "Mary" wrote in message ... "Phil P." wrote in message ... Candace, Speak to your vet about Rutin (available from the Solgar Vitamin Co., Lynbrook, NY- and probably your local pharmacy) at about 50 to 100 mg/kg orally every 8 hr. I can't say with absolute certainty that Rutin cured our chylo cats by itself or if the chylo resolved spontaneously- but after a few months of low-fat diets and thoracentesis as necessary to relieve dyspnea and limit fibrosing pleuritis, both cats pulled through. It this the rutin that is, along with hesperidin, part of C-complex? Yup. Its an OTC. And if I recall correctly its primary function is to strengthen the small blood vessels--like the capillaries? Eggzakly! P. |
#30
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"Mary" wrote in message ... "Phil P." wrote in message ... "Mary" wrote in message ... "Candace" wrote : Thanks, Phil. Yes, we got some Rutin today. I had read about it and the vet said it wouldn't hurt. They're big horse pills but we'll cut them down and try to find a smaller pill meanwhile. We're also going to do Vitamin E to help the scarring. I wonder if the Rutin and the other things you need to give her could be ground into a favorite food for the 18 days you will be alone? Rutin and the other citrus bioflavonoids are present in the white stuff inside an orange peel, Cats *hate* oranges and orange peels. People put orange peels in flower pots to keep the cats away. I knew that, I guess I was just thinking that anything must taste better than Tapazole judging from Buddha's reaction to it when I did put it in her food. As much as cats hate oranges- it still probably tastes better than Tapazole! |
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