Help! Several basic cat urine questions from newbie cat companion

Greetings all!

I have never had a cat my whole life, but a couple years ago, a cat our
new neighbors inherited with their house more or less adopted us. He
just kept hanging out at our house, and we'd take him to his real home
after a week or so, but he kept coming back even though we never fed
him...and anyway, now he lives with us.

He lives mostly in the bottom floor of our house. We call this level
the "basement" even though it is mostly above ground, and over the last
18 months, we have finished it off nicely as a billiard room, lounge,
rec. room etc. It is a huge and delightful space, and the cat loves
it, and can go in and out as he pleases through a pair of doggy doors
(one door into the tool room, where his food and water is, and a
subsequent doggy door to the outside).

We had no urine or marking trouble until about 6 weeks ago, when we
noticed that unmistakable stench in the air, and found a couple places
he had marked -- one on the comforter of the bed he sleeps on, and
another spot on the couch. We treated those areas as best we could,
but over time we found stinky spots all over the place! Either we
missed them the first time, or he is continuing to mark. The cat is
ruining furniture and has made this highly valued space unusable. If
we don't resolve this problem, we will be forced to choose between the
cat, and our billiard room/basement lounge.

I have no experience with cat behavior of this type, so any suggestions
to any of the following questions are much appreciated:

(1) What can we use to really get the stink out of couches and
comforters? Have tried Nature's Miracle and Kids and Pets with mixed
results (seemed to work on the comforter, did not work at all with an
upholstered chair). Does cat urine stink ever just fade over, lets
say, weeks? I stuck that stinky upholstered chair outside in the fresh
air -- is that likely to have any effect at all?

(2) Any opinions on the "1-2-3 ODOR FREE" kit? I am a little
concerned about costs -- if it were a spot here or there, I imagine it
would be manageable, but since most instructions say "soak thoroughly"
and since the cat marks in so many places, I imagine we could run
through a gallon in no time.

(3) Can one accurately detect dried urine with those black light
detectors? I am tired of sniffing around on my hands and knees.

(4) The cat does not have a litter box...he has always gone out to go
to the bathroom. Might his marking have anything to do with him having
to go to the bathroom but being unwilling to go outside? If so, we
could put a litter box in the tool room where he goes to eat, but if
this marking is not remotely a "have to go the bathroom" issue, then I
am disinclined to start using a litterbox. We are not sure if he has
EVER used a litter box (certainly not with us) -- if this is likely to
have any impact on the marking behavior at all, what should we know
about types of boxes, and how should we introduce him to it?

(5) I heard about some pheromone products that supposedly mellow cats
out so they don't feel the need to mark. Are these of any value at
all?

(6) I presume this cat is neutered (we took him to the vet once and I
think the vet confirmed this...not sure); is this easy for me to
detect? If he is not neutered, I will definitely neuter him -- might
this discourage the marking instinct?

(7) I know this is a common problem, but is it one that people ever
really solve? Or is it something like chronic back pain -- try all
known remedies, but expect only meager success and more likely outright
failure.

For the record, we live way out in the country...our nearest neighbors
are about a 1/4 mile away, so our cat has no contact at all with other
pets except for occasionally with our 15-yr old Australian Shepherd.
Cody (the dog) doesn't like Jerry (the cat) and rushes at him
sometimes, but (a) Cody doesn't spend much time in the basement lounge
where Jerry stays, (b) Cody is old and a comically ineffectual chaser,
(c) Jerry seems more amused than fearful, and (d) the chasing behavior
preceded the marking behavior by over a year.

I know that is a lot of questions, but we are desperate and appreciate
any suggestions regarding any of the above points! Jerry is otherwise
a good cat.

Chuck

wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings all!

I have never had a cat my whole life, but a couple years ago, a cat our
new neighbors inherited with their house more or less adopted us. He
just kept hanging out at our house, and we'd take him to his real home
after a week or so, but he kept coming back even though we never fed
him...and anyway, now he lives with us.

He lives mostly in the bottom floor of our house. We call this level
the "basement" even though it is mostly above ground, and over the last
18 months, we have finished it off nicely as a billiard room, lounge,
rec. room etc. It is a huge and delightful space, and the cat loves
it, and can go in and out as he pleases through a pair of doggy doors
(one door into the tool room, where his food and water is, and a
subsequent doggy door to the outside).

We had no urine or marking trouble until about 6 weeks ago, when we
noticed that unmistakable stench in the air, and found a couple places
he had marked -- one on the comforter of the bed he sleeps on, and
another spot on the couch.

Considering that he's peeing/marking on soft places, I'd make a vet appt.
for him ASAP, since he might have a UTI. If he does, a round or two of
antibiotic(s) will solve his/the problem. Inappropriate peeing, esp. as a
new problem & on soft surfaces, is a classic symptom of a urinary tract
infection.

snipped

(4) The cat does not have a litter box...he has always gone out to go
to the bathroom. Might his marking have anything to do with him having
to go to the bathroom but being unwilling to go outside? If so, we
could put a litter box in the tool room where he goes to eat, but if
this marking is not remotely a "have to go the bathroom" issue, then I
am disinclined to start using a litterbox. We are not sure if he has
EVER used a litter box (certainly not with us) -- if this is likely to
have any impact on the marking behavior at all, what should we know
about types of boxes, and how should we introduce him to it?

I'd just make one available to him, show him where it is, & see what
happens...

(6) I presume this cat is neutered (we took him to the vet once and I
think the vet confirmed this...not sure); is this easy for me to
detect? If he is not neutered, I will definitely neuter him -- might
this discourage the marking instinct?

In some male cats it's very easy to tell if they've been neutered with one
visual glance - they're just obviously deflated. ;-) Otehres, not as
obvious. Yes, being neutered, Vs. not neutered makes a huge difference,
marking. AFAIK, all intact male cats mark, whereas only some neutewred cats
do.

So... I'd make a vet appt. & have him re-checked to see if he's been
neutered, while checking for a UTI.

Good luck.

Cathy

in article ,
at wrote on 2/26/05 2:58 PM:

Greetings all!

I have never had a cat my whole life, but a couple years ago, a cat our
new neighbors inherited with their house more or less adopted us. He
just kept hanging out at our house, and we'd take him to his real home
after a week or so, but he kept coming back even though we never fed
him...and anyway, now he lives with us.

He lives mostly in the bottom floor of our house. We call this level
the "basement" even though it is mostly above ground, and over the last
18 months, we have finished it off nicely as a billiard room, lounge,
rec. room etc. It is a huge and delightful space, and the cat loves
it, and can go in and out as he pleases through a pair of doggy doors
(one door into the tool room, where his food and water is, and a
subsequent doggy door to the outside).

We had no urine or marking trouble until about 6 weeks ago, when we
noticed that unmistakable stench in the air, and found a couple places
he had marked -- one on the comforter of the bed he sleeps on, and
another spot on the couch. We treated those areas as best we could,
but over time we found stinky spots all over the place! Either we
missed them the first time, or he is continuing to mark. The cat is
ruining furniture and has made this highly valued space unusable. If
we don't resolve this problem, we will be forced to choose between the
cat, and our billiard room/basement lounge.

I have no experience with cat behavior of this type, so any suggestions
to any of the following questions are much appreciated:

(1) What can we use to really get the stink out of couches and
comforters? Have tried Nature's Miracle and Kids and Pets with mixed
results (seemed to work on the comforter, did not work at all with an
upholstered chair). Does cat urine stink ever just fade over, lets
say, weeks? I stuck that stinky upholstered chair outside in the fresh
air -- is that likely to have any effect at all?

You have to really soak the chair as if it is down in the padding the stuff
may have not reached it. I would soak the heck out of it and stick it in the
sun to dry.



(3) Can one accurately detect dried urine with those black light
detectors? I am tired of sniffing around on my hands and knees.

Apparently yes. I have not had to do this, but hear from pretty much
everyone that yes it works. It may also show up other types of stains too,
but at least you get a headstart.

(4) The cat does not have a litter box...he has always gone out to go
to the bathroom. Might his marking have anything to do with him having
to go to the bathroom but being unwilling to go outside? If so, we
could put a litter box in the tool room where he goes to eat, but if
this marking is not remotely a "have to go the bathroom" issue, then I
am disinclined to start using a litterbox. We are not sure if he has
EVER used a litter box (certainly not with us) -- if this is likely to
have any impact on the marking behavior at all, what should we know
about types of boxes, and how should we introduce him to it?
YES. Add a box!!!! There may be some reason he doesn't want to go out. All
our indoor/outdoor cats always came in to do their business anyway. Also,
there may be a strange cat in the area and he is marking. But mostly *you
need to have him vet checked*. 95% of all inappropriate peeing is due to a
medical problem. He NEEDS to be checked. And adding a box is a good idea
anyway.

(5) I heard about some pheromone products that supposedly mellow cats
out so they don't feel the need to mark. Are these of any value at
all?

Feliway diffusers. They are good for many reasons. Mostly it is a good idea
because if it is a medical problem, they are usually exacerbated by stress
(and we cannot always tell what is stressful to a cat, but certainly redoing
a familiar space can rank way up there as stressful to cats who LOVE
routine. Another reason I think you should have him vet checked. Just
redoing the basement could be a stressful thing, just like moving is
stressful for us, even when it is GOOD. It is still stressful and that can
bring on a UTI or interstitial cystitis).
(6) I presume this cat is neutered (we took him to the vet once and I
think the vet confirmed this...not sure); is this easy for me to
detect? If he is not neutered, I will definitely neuter him -- might
this discourage the marking instinct?

Hmmm. You aren't sure the vet confirmed this? Does he LOOK like he has all
the equipment? Unless long haired, you can usually tell visually very easily
if they have testes or not.

(7) I know this is a common problem, but is it one that people ever
really solve? Or is it something like chronic back pain -- try all
known remedies, but expect only meager success and more likely outright
failure.

Absoultely not. It is common because male cats are prone to urinary
problems. But people think "oh that's just a cat thing". It ISN'T. They are
usually in pain from crstals or infection. Seriously 95% of inappropriate
elimination is due to a medical problem. Even if the culture is clear, it
can be interstitial cystitis that is idiopathic (not having a known source).
It comes and goes in cycles. The only thing you can do there is try to
reduce stress with Feliway diffusers (which don't put out a smell we can
sense so don't worry about that), give them a choice of places to go and
keep them clean, try to get an increase of fluids in the cat; I had great
success with placing water bowls all over the house (and even outside in
your case) so that they are often reminded. Feed wet food of high quality
and avoid flavors where fish is high in the label of ingredients. The longer
you let it go, the worse it can become or it can even become a habit. So
PLEASE get kitty checked. It should not have to come to a decision between
the cat and the room. I am certain that you can beat this. I honestly never
had a problem and I've had many male cats.

For the record, we live way out in the country...our nearest neighbors
are about a 1/4 mile away, so our cat has no contact at all with other
pets except for occasionally with our 15-yr old Australian Shepherd.
Cody (the dog) doesn't like Jerry (the cat) and rushes at him
sometimes, but (a) Cody doesn't spend much time in the basement lounge
where Jerry stays, (b) Cody is old and a comically ineffectual chaser,
(c) Jerry seems more amused than fearful, and (d) the chasing behavior
preceded the marking behavior by over a year.

They probably both actually enjoy this. It is probably more of a "game" than
anything. I doubt highly it is a cause. One other thing. If Cody is old,
sometimes animals sense illness in other animals they live with and it can
cause them stress, and as I said, stress can cause inappropriate peeing, so
it would not be a bad idea to get Cody a thorough geriatric work up as well.

I know that is a lot of questions, but we are desperate and appreciate
any suggestions regarding any of the above points! Jerry is otherwise
a good cat.

Chuck

Please keep us posted on your progress. I'm quite certain you can solve
this.

Cathy Friedmann wrote:
snipped
Considering that he's peeing/marking on soft places, I'd make a vet appt.
for him ASAP, since he might have a UTI. If he does, a round or two of
antibiotic(s) will solve his/the problem. Inappropriate peeing, esp. as a
new problem & on soft surfaces, is a classic symptom of a urinary tract
infection.

My female cat had struvite crystals. She's on C/D now. But she was also
peeing on soft things. Any idea why they prefer soft surfaces to urinate
when they have a UTI?

Chris Dutton wrote:
Cathy Friedmann wrote:
snipped
Considering that he's peeing/marking on soft places, I'd make a vet
appt.
for him ASAP, since he might have a UTI. If he does, a round or
two of
antibiotic(s) will solve his/the problem. Inappropriate peeing,
esp. as a
new problem & on soft surfaces, is a classic symptom of a urinary
tract
infection.

My female cat had struvite crystals. She's on C/D now. But she was
also
peeing on soft things. Any idea why they prefer soft surfaces to
urinate
when they have a UTI?

Couple of reasons - if feels better to them and if they pee someplace
they aren't supposed to, YOU will notice it. They can't talk, so they
have to tell you somehow. I know cats that pee in the bathtub when
they have UTIs because they know it's the ONE place their guardian
always goes in the morning.

-L.

"Chris Dutton" wrote in message
news:4XfUd.518167$Xk.499200@pd7tw3no...
Cathy Friedmann wrote:
snipped
Considering that he's peeing/marking on soft places, I'd make a vet
appt.
for him ASAP, since he might have a UTI. If he does, a round or two of
antibiotic(s) will solve his/the problem. Inappropriate peeing, esp. as
a
new problem & on soft surfaces, is a classic symptom of a urinary tract
infection.

My female cat had struvite crystals. She's on C/D now. But she was also
peeing on soft things. Any idea why they prefer soft surfaces to urinate
when they have a UTI?

UTI's can hurt like hell, when you go (inflamed urethra, to the point of
urine having blood in it). So maybe it's an instinctual thing - trying to
counteract the burning pain?

Cathy

I to have the same problem. I have 2 males, both nuetered, not until
about 2 years ago did I start noticing it and it is starting to get out
of hand. I have tried every product you have mentioned and nothing
worked for me. I would appreciate if you could share with me any
remedies.