Adventurous cat

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:59:53 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off either
block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in the
wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference. "Freedom"
is a relative human construct. For instance, many ex-convicts will
re-commit in order to return to the comfort of three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an atrium
where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house. They
are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just before
the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for shots and
inspection)

My experience with allowing cats to roam has been unpleasant. For one
thing, there are a lot of "cat-haters" out there who enjoy dispatching
them to the hereafter; also, weirdos who enjoy torturing them.

A few years ago, my neighbor let her cat roam, and it came to my home
at night-time and started knocking plants off the balcony. I'd be
awakened in the middle of the night with resounding crashes. The
neighbor got stubborn about my complaints.

It took the police to tell her that she was responsible for her cat -
and that I was free to do anything I wanted to in order to protect my
property.

I still say that if you truly love your cat, you won't let it roam.

My experience has been different from yours. I have owned cats all of my
life, and only lost one. I also lost a dog many years ago from the same
thing, and he was not allowed to roam. So, the point I am making is that you
shouldn't impress your own experience on everyone else. You are perfectly
free to operate accorkinjg to your own personal experience, and I wouldn't
presume to tell you that. "Anyone who forces his cats to live cooped up
inside his house is practicing cruelty toward animals". But you (aqnd many
others like you) are quick to tell me that you believe that anyone who lets
his cats roam free is practicing cruelty toward his animals.
If you want cruelty to animals, look to the great God of this universe.
He has forced the freezing and starvation of literally millions of animals
every Winter for millions of years now. I would not question you were you to
bitch about Him....:^)

I can't force you to keep yout cat indoors, but the police can if your
cat destroys my property- unless you want to get rid of it. I can
also do whatever I need to if your cat trespasses onto my property.
Having said that, I am a cat lover, but there are plenty of cat haters
in the world.

Look at the millions of people God starves everyday.

"Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born.
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night."
- William Blake


--

Per Gandalf ingold1234(at)yahoo(dot)com:
It is a well documented fact that indoor only cats live longer lives
than indoor/outdoor cats. There are MANY risk factors

Raul Wallenberg probably lived a very long time underground in
Lubianka Prison.

But longevity isn't everything.

Whether or not a cat is capable of perceiving the diff is another
question....
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2012-10-14, Gandalf ingold1234 wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off either
block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to roam
"cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long life,
you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in the
wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference. "Freedom"
is a relative human construct. For instance, many ex-convicts will
re-commit in order to return to the comfort of three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an atrium
where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI would
hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they were free when
they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of their food and drink. My
five cats choose to sleep in my house. They are free to leave at almost any
time. (I do trap them just before the roving vet gets here, so they will be
available for shots and inspection)

It is a well documented fact that indoor only cats live longer lives
than indoor/outdoor cats. There are MANY risk factors for cats with
access to the outdoor: cars/trucks/busses, kids (and adults) with pellet
rifles, slingshots, firearms, etc., fleas, ticks, mange, roundworms,
hookworms, FIP, FIV, feline leukemia, feline herpes, predation by fox,
coyotes, hawks, and owls, and fighting with other cats, and dogs. I'm
sure the list goes on; this is just what I quickly thought of.

I think it is harness time for our cat.

--
Member - Liberal International This is Ici
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
USA petition to dissolve the Republic and vote to disoolve it in November 2012

On 2012-10-14, Bill Graham wrote:
Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off either
block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in the
wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference. "Freedom"
is a relative human construct. For instance, many ex-convicts will
re-commit in order to return to the comfort of three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an atrium
where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house. They
are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just before
the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for shots and
inspection)

My experience with allowing cats to roam has been unpleasant. For one
thing, there are a lot of "cat-haters" out there who enjoy dispatching
them to the hereafter; also, weirdos who enjoy torturing them.

A few years ago, my neighbor let her cat roam, and it came to my home
at night-time and started knocking plants off the balcony. I'd be
awakened in the middle of the night with resounding crashes. The
neighbor got stubborn about my complaints.

It took the police to tell her that she was responsible for her cat -
and that I was free to do anything I wanted to in order to protect my
property.

I still say that if you truly love your cat, you won't let it roam.

My experience has been different from yours. I have owned cats all of my
life, and only lost one. I also lost a dog many years ago from the same
thing, and he was not allowed to roam. So, the point I am making is that you
shouldn't impress your own experience on everyone else. You are perfectly
free to operate accorkinjg to your own personal experience, and I wouldn't
presume to tell you that. "Anyone who forces his cats to live cooped up
inside his house is practicing cruelty toward animals". But you (aqnd many
others like you) are quick to tell me that you believe that anyone who lets
his cats roam free is practicing cruelty toward his animals.
If you want cruelty to animals, look to the great God of this universe.
He has forced the freezing and starvation of literally millions of animals
every Winter for millions of years now. I would not question you were you to
bitch about Him....:^)


What prompted this thread was that I was mad to find our cat outside
his boundaries. He was on the other side if the block and
was not supposed to be there.

He has been with us for 13 months now but for his 1st 4 months
months of his life he was the colony guard.

We took him in as his colony dispersed. I still want him
a little wild but not to wild.


--
Member - Liberal International This is Ici
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k
USA petition to dissolve the Republic and vote to disoolve it in November 2012

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:59:53 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off
either block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in
the wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference.
"Freedom" is a relative human construct. For instance, many
ex-convicts will re-commit in order to return to the comfort of
three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an
atrium where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house.
They are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just
before the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for
shots and inspection)

My experience with allowing cats to roam has been unpleasant. For
one thing, there are a lot of "cat-haters" out there who enjoy
dispatching them to the hereafter; also, weirdos who enjoy
torturing them.

A few years ago, my neighbor let her cat roam, and it came to my
home at night-time and started knocking plants off the balcony.
I'd be awakened in the middle of the night with resounding crashes.
The neighbor got stubborn about my complaints.

It took the police to tell her that she was responsible for her cat
- and that I was free to do anything I wanted to in order to
protect my property.

I still say that if you truly love your cat, you won't let it roam.

My experience has been different from yours. I have owned cats all
of my life, and only lost one. I also lost a dog many years ago from
the same thing, and he was not allowed to roam. So, the point I am
making is that you shouldn't impress your own experience on everyone
else. You are perfectly free to operate accorkinjg to your own
personal experience, and I wouldn't presume to tell you that.
"Anyone who forces his cats to live cooped up inside his house is
practicing cruelty toward animals". But you (aqnd many others like
you) are quick to tell me that you believe that anyone who lets his
cats roam free is practicing cruelty toward his animals. If you
want cruelty to animals, look to the great God of this universe.
He has forced the freezing and starvation of literally millions of
animals every Winter for millions of years now. I would not question
you were you to bitch about Him....:^)

I can't force you to keep yout cat indoors, but the police can if your
cat destroys my property- unless you want to get rid of it. I can
also do whatever I need to if your cat trespasses onto my property.
Having said that, I am a cat lover, but there are plenty of cat haters
in the world.

Look at the millions of people God starves everyday.

"Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born.
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night."
- William Blake

I find it hard to believe that any cat can, "Destroy property". We are
talking about pet kitty's here, and not lions. None of my neighbors, (many
of whom have their own cats) have ever told me that they had any problems
with any of my cats. I*n fact. I had one that loved to sneak into their
houses whenever he found one of their windows open four inches or more. He
would turn up at dinnertime waiting for a handout.... Even the neighbor who
was allergic to cats loved him....
I am sorry thsat you have such neighbors, that value some flowers more than
a friendly cat.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

But longevity isn't everything.

Exactly my point. Some would trade anything for a few more days of life. I
can not speak for my cats, but I know that there are many things more
important, so I have little choice but to impress my philosophy on my cats.
They were, "Born free", as it were, and they continue to live free under my
care. In fact, if I had to keep my cats inside, I wouldn't own any of tthem.
(except perhaps Junie, who is old and blind, and never goes outside any more
anyway)

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:05:13 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:59:53 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off
either block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in
the wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference.
"Freedom" is a relative human construct. For instance, many
ex-convicts will re-commit in order to return to the comfort of
three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an
atrium where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house.
They are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just
before the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for
shots and inspection)

My experience with allowing cats to roam has been unpleasant. For
one thing, there are a lot of "cat-haters" out there who enjoy
dispatching them to the hereafter; also, weirdos who enjoy
torturing them.

A few years ago, my neighbor let her cat roam, and it came to my
home at night-time and started knocking plants off the balcony.
I'd be awakened in the middle of the night with resounding crashes.
The neighbor got stubborn about my complaints.

It took the police to tell her that she was responsible for her cat
- and that I was free to do anything I wanted to in order to
protect my property.

I still say that if you truly love your cat, you won't let it roam.

My experience has been different from yours. I have owned cats all
of my life, and only lost one. I also lost a dog many years ago from
the same thing, and he was not allowed to roam. So, the point I am
making is that you shouldn't impress your own experience on everyone
else. You are perfectly free to operate accorkinjg to your own
personal experience, and I wouldn't presume to tell you that.
"Anyone who forces his cats to live cooped up inside his house is
practicing cruelty toward animals". But you (aqnd many others like
you) are quick to tell me that you believe that anyone who lets his
cats roam free is practicing cruelty toward his animals. If you
want cruelty to animals, look to the great God of this universe.
He has forced the freezing and starvation of literally millions of
animals every Winter for millions of years now. I would not question
you were you to bitch about Him....:^)

I can't force you to keep yout cat indoors, but the police can if your
cat destroys my property- unless you want to get rid of it. I can
also do whatever I need to if your cat trespasses onto my property.
Having said that, I am a cat lover, but there are plenty of cat haters
in the world.

Look at the millions of people God starves everyday.

"Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born.
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night."
- William Blake

I find it hard to believe that any cat can, "Destroy property". We are
talking about pet kitty's here, and not lions. None of my neighbors, (many
of whom have their own cats) have ever told me that they had any problems
with any of my cats. I*n fact. I had one that loved to sneak into their
houses whenever he found one of their windows open four inches or more. He
would turn up at dinnertime waiting for a handout.... Even the neighbor who
was allergic to cats loved him....
I am sorry thsat you have such neighbors, that value some flowers more than
a friendly cat.

I already told you what the cat did. I have potted plants on my
balcony. The balcony in one story above the ground. There are steps
leading to the balcony. The cat would go up the steps and push the
plants off the ledge onto the path below. The cat did this about a
half-dozen times, and I saw it running away on a couple of occasions.
No doubt what happened.

I told the neighbor about it several times, then finally I called the
police who came out to the house and told the neighbor she would have
to keep her cat on her own property or suffer the consequences.

--

The Doctor wrote:
On 2012-10-14, Gandalf ingold1234 wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off either
block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in
the wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference.
"Freedom" is a relative human construct. For instance, many
ex-convicts will re-commit in order to return to the comfort of
three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an
atrium where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house.
They are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just
before the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for
shots and inspection)

It is a well documented fact that indoor only cats live longer lives
than indoor/outdoor cats. There are MANY risk factors for cats with
access to the outdoor: cars/trucks/busses, kids (and adults) with
pellet rifles, slingshots, firearms, etc., fleas, ticks, mange,
roundworms, hookworms, FIP, FIV, feline leukemia, feline herpes,
predation by fox, coyotes, hawks, and owls, and fighting with other
cats, and dogs. I'm sure the list goes on; this is just what I
quickly thought of.

I think it is harness time for our cat.

I never said that outdoor cats don't face hazards that indoor cats don't
have to face. I only suggest that the price of their longevity may be too
high for some. To each his own. Just don't call it "cruelty".

P.S. The cat was a bitch like her owner. The plant pot problem
stopped after the police came.

--

On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:16:42 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

The Doctor wrote:
On 2012-10-14, Gandalf ingold1234 wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:48:27 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 19:34:41 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote:

Mack A. Damia wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:27:39 +0000 (UTC),
(The Doctor) wrote:

First time owning a cat of our own.

I let him own for the 2nd time today. Just coming back from
errands, I saw our cat roaming outside acceptable bounds!

He was coming back to our block, but he was not to go off either
block or crescent.

He is due at the vet this Monday.

What needs to be done?

Others may disagree, but I consider letting cats (pets) out to
roam "cruelty". If you love your cat and want it to live a long
life, you'll keep it strictly indoors.

With some cats (and other animals) living a free life is more
important than a long one... This applies to people also, come to
think of it.....

I don't think cat's understand the concept. If they are born in
the wild and captured, they "sense" an unpleasant difference.
"Freedom" is a relative human construct. For instance, many
ex-convicts will re-commit in order to return to the comfort of
three hots and a cot.

My cat is free to roam around a large two-story house with an
atrium where she even get a taste of the outdoors. She's free as
a..........cat.

Oh, I agree. Many cats are perfectly happy as incoor cats. but ZI
would hardly call lettong one out, "cruelty". Especially if they
were free when they came to me and I imprisoned them as a cost of
their food and drink. My five cats choose to sleep in my house.
They are free to leave at almost any time. (I do trap them just
before the roving vet gets here, so they will be available for
shots and inspection)

It is a well documented fact that indoor only cats live longer lives
than indoor/outdoor cats. There are MANY risk factors for cats with
access to the outdoor: cars/trucks/busses, kids (and adults) with
pellet rifles, slingshots, firearms, etc., fleas, ticks, mange,
roundworms, hookworms, FIP, FIV, feline leukemia, feline herpes,
predation by fox, coyotes, hawks, and owls, and fighting with other
cats, and dogs. I'm sure the list goes on; this is just what I
quickly thought of.

I think it is harness time for our cat.

I never said that outdoor cats don't face hazards that indoor cats don't
have to face. I only suggest that the price of their longevity may be too
high for some. To each his own. Just don't call it "cruelty".

Then you don't truly love your cats. It's animal cruelty to let them
roam.

--