recommended amounts on canned food

I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I
stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and decided
to look at all the different canned foods. Since there has been a lot of
talk about the recommended amount for them, I decided to look at all the
different labels. On just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different
recommended amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like the
'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor.
Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to?

"blueberries79" wrote in message
news:hAahe.16236$aB.9711@lakeread03...
I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I
stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and
decided
to look at all the different canned foods. Since there has been a lot of
talk about the recommended amount for them, I decided to look at all the
different labels. On just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different
recommended amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like
the
'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor.
Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to?



You mean how much you should feed? We have had so many long
discussions on that. It seems to me that cats are like people--they have
slower and faster metabolisms, so it depends. Phil has a very specific
calorie-based recommendation, but it seems to me that past discussion
supports feeding the average (healthy, average activity level)
10-pound cat about 8-10 ounces of canned food. About three little
cans or, what, two big cans? But for my cat Buddha that would be way
too much. First, she ought to weigh about 8 pounds, second, I want
her to lose weight, and third she has both thyroid and heart conditions
that mean her metabolism is a bit slow. Very complicated question!
(Or, better, simple question, complicated answer.)

"Mary" wrote in message
...

"blueberries79" wrote in message
news:hAahe.16236$aB.9711@lakeread03...
I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I
stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and
decided
to look at all the different canned foods. Since there has been a lot
of
talk about the recommended amount for them, I decided to look at all the
different labels. On just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different
recommended amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like
the
'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was
flavor.
Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to?



You mean how much you should feed? We have had so many long
discussions on that. It seems to me that cats are like people--they have
slower and faster metabolisms, so it depends. Phil has a very specific
calorie-based recommendation, but it seems to me that past discussion
supports feeding the average (healthy, average activity level)
10-pound cat about 8-10 ounces of canned food. About three little
cans or, what, two big cans? But for my cat Buddha that would be way
too much. First, she ought to weigh about 8 pounds, second, I want
her to lose weight, and third she has both thyroid and heart conditions
that mean her metabolism is a bit slow. Very complicated question!
(Or, better, simple question, complicated answer.)



Yes and no... I kind of figured about 2 1/2 cans/day would be enough for the
two of them, I just cant believe the different standards all these cans
have! A sane person would go crazy trying to go by each of these labels
with the way they all have different amounts on them. And a crazy person...
well they would probably smash all the cans on the ground after getting
frustrated! Come to think of it... a sane person might do that too : )

On Fri 13 May 2005 07:16:55p, blueberries79 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:hAahe.16236$aB.9711@lakeread03):

I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour
ago. I stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo
starve!!) and decided to look at all the different canned foods.
Since there has been a lot of talk about the recommended amount
for them, I decided to look at all the different labels. On
just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different recommended
amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like the
'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference
was flavor. Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers
are held to?




Different foods have differing amounts of calories. Adjust food
intake based on calories. Makes sense to me. What do you mean by
"standard"?

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Fri 13 May 2005 07:16:55p, blueberries79 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:hAahe.16236$aB.9711@lakeread03):

I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour
ago. I stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo
starve!!) and decided to look at all the different canned foods.
Since there has been a lot of talk about the recommended amount
for them, I decided to look at all the different labels. On
just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different recommended
amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like the
'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference
was flavor. Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers
are held to?




Different foods have differing amounts of calories. Adjust food
intake based on calories. Makes sense to me. What do you mean by
"standard"?

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has packaging based
on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered average for a 'average'
human. I (mistakenly it seems) assumed these cat food manufacturers would
have the same type of averages in place on their labels... if not across the
board with all other makers, but at least across the board on their own
brand of cat food. Does that make a bit more sense? Sometimes I write
things and they make perfect sense in my head, but other people scrach their
heads : )

On Fri 13 May 2005 08:38:35p, blueberries79 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:RMbhe.16242$aB.4890@lakeread03):

I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has
packaging based on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered
average for a 'average' human.

I guess I still don't understand this. You mean where they indicate
for example, 2 servings per box, 100 calories per serving? Or do
you mean percentage? I have only seen percentage listed for
nutrients, not calories. Then, with human food, it is up to us to
know how many servings of this food we should have in a day based
on other food we eat. Or am I totally misunderstanding what you
mean?


I (mistakenly it seems) assumed
these cat food manufacturers would have the same type of
averages in place on their labels... if not across the board
with all other makers, but at least across the board on their
own brand of cat food. Does that make a bit more sense?
Sometimes I write things and they make perfect sense in my head,
but other people scrach their heads : )

I understand. I do the same thing.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
On Fri 13 May 2005 08:38:35p, blueberries79 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:RMbhe.16242$aB.4890@lakeread03):

I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has
packaging based on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered
average for a 'average' human.

I guess I still don't understand this. You mean where they indicate
for example, 2 servings per box, 100 calories per serving? Or do
you mean percentage? I have only seen percentage listed for
nutrients, not calories. Then, with human food, it is up to us to
know how many servings of this food we should have in a day based
on other food we eat. Or am I totally misunderstanding what you
mean?


I (mistakenly it seems) assumed
these cat food manufacturers would have the same type of
averages in place on their labels... if not across the board
with all other makers, but at least across the board on their
own brand of cat food. Does that make a bit more sense?
Sometimes I write things and they make perfect sense in my head,
but other people scrach their heads : )

I understand. I do the same thing.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will
work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight
for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body
weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" - the
last one is what really shocked me. That would mean Gabe should be getting
6 cans a day! way wayyyy too much - The last one was in a boxed set, so the
more I think about it, I am wondering if they were smaller tins just made by
the same company; in that case 3 tins might equal 1 1/2 or 2 tins of the
larger ones I was looking at. Regardless, the fact is that I picked up 2 of
the exact same food by the exact same manufacturer with just a different
flavor label and one said "1 1/2" and the other said "2"

Better? This is where I should have brought my husband in... hes much
better at saying something in just a few words and not having to say it 3
times before the point gets across. I tend to ramble and not make any sense
:P

"blueberries79" wrote

We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will
work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight
for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body
weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight"

I understood exactly what you were saying, as did most people. We have
all read these cat food cans.

On Fri 13 May 2005 10:24:22p, blueberries79 wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:0kdhe.16261$aB.8525@lakeread03):

We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe
that will work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per
6-8 lbs body weight for an adult cat" while the next one said
"feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" and yet another said "feed
3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" - the last one is what really
shocked me. That would mean Gabe should be getting 6 cans a
day! way wayyyy too much - The last one was in a boxed set, so
the more I think about it, I am wondering if they were smaller
tins just made by the same company; in that case 3 tins might
equal 1 1/2 or 2 tins of the larger ones I was looking at.
Regardless, the fact is that I picked up 2 of the exact same
food by the exact same manufacturer with just a different flavor
label and one said "1 1/2" and the other said "2"

Better? This is where I should have brought my husband in...
hes much better at saying something in just a few words and not
having to say it 3 times before the point gets across. I tend
to ramble and not make any sense
:P

NP I understand where you're coming from with the pet food
labels and recommended amounts, but I never pay attention to them.
That's my point. I guess I've read here long enough to know to
disregard them. But it can be confusing. If a single can of one
variety or flavor says to feed 2 cans per day, in order for another
variety or other flavor and differing ingredients to keep to the 2
can per day allowance, one or the other has to either add water,
remove fat, add fiber/carbs etc etc to make the calorie intake
exactly the same. Does that make sense? If they muck with one
flavor so that the calorie content matches the other, one might not
be palatable. Look at the calorie content to make the decision on
how much to feed. You also have to allow for the activity level of
the cat being fed.

I had a cat who required a certain amount of calories per day for
his liver to heal from hepatic lipidosis. I found an online KCAL
calculator that told you exact number of MGs, ounces or even MLs to
feed per day to get that correct intake based on the severity of
illness. Most people don't need this to be so exact. I like what
William Hamblen just wrote - put the food down for a certain amount
of time, what they don't eat is too much food put down. Adjust from
there.

--
Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

"blueberries79" wrote in message
news:0kdhe.16261$aB.8525@lakeread03...

We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will
work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight
for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body
weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" -

Disregard label recommendations- they don't take into consideration sex
status, activity level, indoor/outdoor, age-associated changes, or risk
factor management. Right off the bat, neutered cats require about 33% less
calories a day than intact cats, inactive cats also require less calories.
Label recommendations are responsible for many overweight cats

There's no one-size-fits-all diet for cats. Nutritional management should
be based on the individual cat's needs and circumstances.

Here's a simple formula you can use as a guide- or starting point for a good
nutritional management program. From here you'll have to fine tune the diet
to your individual cat's needs:

Weigh your cat and keep a record of her weight and diet (food and amount and
feeding pattern. Then, assign a body condition score according to this
chart: http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Body_...stem-Chart.jpg

Start your cat's nutritional management program by feeding ~45 kcals/kg/day
(assuming your cat is neutered). You may need to contact the petfood mfg.
for the energy density (kcals/g or kcals/can or cup), "as fed" % protein, %
fat, and % carbs of the diet you're feeding. For example, Science Diet
Adult Turkey contains 95 kcal/ 3 oz (85 g) can and 174 kcal/ 5.5 oz (156 g)
can.

An 'average' 4 kg, neutered, indoor, moderate-to inactive cat has a daily
energy requirement (DER) of about 180 kcals. So, one 5.5 oz can (174 kcals)
divided into 2 or 3 feedings should be just about right and a good starting
point. You don't have to be super critical with serving sizes, but the more
accurate you are, the easier it will be to fine tune the diet to reach and
maintain your cat's optimum weight.

If your cat's DER requires more or less than a can, you might want to weigh
the servings until you can judge the amounts to feed. $10-$20 diet scales
are accurate enough. Here's a simple formula for determining how much food
to feed:

Protein= 3.5 kcal/gram; Fat= 8.5 kcal/gram; Carbohydrate= 3.5 kcal/gram.

Based on SD Adult Turkey:
Multiply the As fed % protein x 3.5
Multiply the As Fed % fat x 8.5
Multiply the As Fed % carb x 3.5 and add the products.

e.g., protein: 11%- .11 X 3.5 = 0.385
carbohydrate: 5.7 %- 0.057 X 3.5 = 0.20
fat: 6.2%: 0.065 X 8.5 = 0.553
Caloric Density = 1.138 kcal/gram

If your cat has a DER of 225 kcals/day, divide 1.138 into 225 = 198 grams of
food - or 1, 5.5 oz can + 1/2, 3 oz can divided into 2 feedings/day. If you
decide to weigh the servings, buying the large 12 oz/404 g cans would be
much more economical. Just feed 2, 100 g or 3, 65 g servings/day. After you
see how much 100 g of food looks like, you won't need the scale.

The same formula works for dry food- just different As Fed values. You'll
be amazed by how much more volume of dry food needs to be fed to meet the
same caloric value - much of which ends up in the ltterbox since dry food
isn't as digestible as equal-quality canned food.

Best of luck,

Phil.