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#11
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Cats and grains
"Toni" wrote in message
. .. "CatNipped" wrote in message ... Toni" wrote in message . .. I disagree. Processed pet foods have done more to harm animals over the last 60 or so years they have been available. Much is lost in the manufacturing process, and sprayed on substitutes are inferior to real whole food. Also This is just not true. Pets used to live only 5 or 6 years when I was a child. The manufactured food available then was nutritionally unsound and basically contained only food scraps and "left-overs" (thinks pig hooves and gristle) from processed human food. Other than that pets were given table scraps (which, while good for humans was not good for pets' nutritional needs) *MILLIONS* of dollars have been spent over the years by pet food manufacturers to improve the quality of pet food and as a result pets are living much longer, healthier lives. Is todays processed food better than that initially introduced after WWll? Of course it is. Now ask me if I think that todays processed food is better than a diet of fresh whole foods? No. If it was we'd all be eating Total cereal exclusively. The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they would eat in nature. And you know what - cats in "nature" live an average of 3 to 5 years and most of them look pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me. The research done on pets' nutritionaly needs is almost as extensive (in the US) as for humans' nutritional needs. I would still trust that the millions of dollars spent on that research has found out more about this subject than what I can guess at, so I'll stick to manufactured foods for my cats (who are 16, 8, 7, and 2 and are and have always been healthy and active). Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods? There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating yourself in reading labels. People are always talking about "the good old days", but take it from us geezers who are older than dirt, "the good old days" weren't nearly as good as today! I'll see your 'geezer' and raise you 10 years. g OK, do you remember when "cell phones" where bigger than your head???! ; When I was a child we didn't even have cell phones - our land lines came with rotary dials, telephone numbers where only 7 digits, and telephone number prefixes where things like "Edgewood 1". -- Hugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ -- Toni (older than dirt myself) http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com |
#12
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Cats and grains
"CatNipped" wrote The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they would eat in nature. Precisely. [...] Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods? There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating yourself in reading labels. Yep. It is mostly chemistry. However--there is fairly recent evidence (for humans, anyway--or is that lab rats?) that there are protective properties in whole foods that make them worth more than the sum of their parts, if that makes sense. Meaning that health benefits in whole foods are seen that cannot be explained by the chemicals they know are in the foods. (Here I am using "whole foods" as in, the whole pear instead of just the stuff we know is in the pear, taken in a vitamin tablet.) It suggests to me that there are still substances in some whole foods that have not been identified and are destroyed with processing/preserving. This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh" thing, but I think it is a component. Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php |
#13
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Cats and grains
"cybercat" wrote in message
... "CatNipped" wrote The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they would eat in nature. Precisely. [...] Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods? There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating yourself in reading labels. Yep. It is mostly chemistry. However--there is fairly recent evidence (for humans, anyway--or is that lab rats?) that there are protective properties in whole foods that make them worth more than the sum of their parts, if that makes sense. Meaning that health benefits in whole foods are seen that cannot be explained by the chemicals they know are in the foods. (Here I am using "whole foods" as in, the whole pear instead of just the stuff we know is in the pear, taken in a vitamin tablet.) It suggests to me that there are still substances in some whole foods that have not been identified and are destroyed with processing/preserving. This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh" thing, but I think it is a component. True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they could live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times, let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite or because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history. -- Hugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php |
#14
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Cats and grains
"CatNipped" wrote This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh" thing, but I think it is a component. True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they could live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times, let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite or because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history. -- You bet--and my comment was definitely not in favor of the "good old days" or "back to nature" argument. You are right, we are better off than ever. Even with regard to things like air quality--exhaust fumes from cars and the hole in the ozone layer are nothing to "sneeze at" so to speak. But many people do not seem to think about how awful it was when people used coal and/or wood fires for heat, especially before advances in filtration. Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php |
#15
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Cats and grains
"cybercat" wrote in message
... "CatNipped" wrote This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh" thing, but I think it is a component. True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they could live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times, let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite or because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history. -- You bet--and my comment was definitely not in favor of the "good old days" or "back to nature" argument. You are right, we are better off than ever. Even with regard to things like air quality--exhaust fumes from cars and the hole in the ozone layer are nothing to "sneeze at" so to speak. But many people do not seem to think about how awful it was when people used coal and/or wood fires for heat, especially before advances in filtration. I do have to agree with you and Toni, however, in saying that whole, natural foods are better than most processed foods. A lot of our longevity is due to a safer environment and the advances in health care more than due to diet. I think we still have a long way to go in improving our diets (*ESPECIALLY* here in the US - the fattest nation on earth). I just like to keep in mind that when people bemoan the lack of "natural" foods in our diets, that all those preservatives have provided more available "fresh" food to feed our millions, and have decreased rot and things like "natural" grain ergot that goes along with some "natural" food and would kill us a lot sooner than cancer later in life. Those nasty preservatives are what hat has allowed us to feed the 6,516,475,399 people currently living on this planet. Hugs, CatNipped Inviato da X-Privat.Org - Registrazione gratuita http://www.x-privat.org/join.php |
#16
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Cats and grains
"CatNipped" wrote in message
Remember transistor radios that only got AM? Remember 8 track tape decks? Both too big to carry easily. 8 track tapes didn't exist when I was kid, but I do remember putting one in the second hand '67 T-Bird bought when I was 19. Beautiful car, only after putting $7000 into it in a span of two years, it rusted out from underneath me. Now I use an IPOD almost as small as the batteries those used to use Never was into them much. To me they're not much different than the person walking along and talking on their cell phone while they look for a particular item in a store and pass by it four times because they're distracted too much. I remember once watching one guy talking on his cell phone to his girlfriend as he came into a corner store to find a money machine. I knew right away what he was looking for. The machine was bigger than he was, yet he walked by it three times and then asked at the front couter if they had one. Absolutely ludicrous. Nowadays, I'm so much into the electronic toys and power tools that I'm almost ashamed for reminiscing about what wasn't around more than 40 years ago. |
#17
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Cats and grains
Toni wrote: I think you are nitpicking and missing the point. Cats have evolved as obligate carnivores- animals who prey upon and eat other animals. Prey animals consisting of meat, bone, organs, and predigested vegetable matter in the stomach. So, to me, feeding a cat a diet consisting of rice, corn, or wheat is in direct opposition to what their preferred and necessary diet is. No one is suggesting that you feed your cats rotten meat or disease riddled animals. So no, wild animal type of diet is definitely *not* a preferred choice for your pet. Not if you want your pets to live longer, healthier lives. There are many, many of us feeding a clean raw diet that would beg to differ. Raw fed cats are some of the healthiest animals out there with naturally strong immune systems, naturally clean teeth, and a gleaming non shedding coat. Well said, Toni, and I couldn't agree with you more. I've been feeding my cats a homemade raw diet for over 5 years now and I think they've really benefitted from it. I know a homemade diet is not for everyone, but in my case, it's been well worth it. Lauren See my cats: http://tinyurl.com/76tg8 |
#18
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Cats and grains
"CatNipped" wrote in message ... The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they would eat in nature. Exactly. What's so hard about that? -- Toni http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com |
#19
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Cats and grains
"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message
... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "CatNipped" OK, do you remember when "cell phones" where bigger than your head???! ; When I was a child we didn't even have cell phones - our land lines came with rotary dials, telephone numbers where only 7 digits, and telephone number prefixes where things like "Edgewood 1". No "party line"? You musta bin summa dem rich folks when you wuz yung. LOL! I forgot about those, but yes, we did! -- Hugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: N/A iQCVAwUBRGwJl5MoscYxZNI5AQHtYAP9HsPnPVkiXg93WeQ45C JRnfuDjIaciKmx dJvy1eUKVLyiH+jWyrAvkqhnKVMxgVS6xrB+4uU/82xk5v2ASlqj9qGqIJH7uYbH oXiHqQqL6nr57AaTOhL8b97H36K86trew5WddyDGQarMuzV4jh I3dBq6e8s40p+r wbRp9EgK/ho= =lzLW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#20
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Cats and grains
"Toni" wrote in message
.. . "CatNipped" wrote in message ... The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they would eat in nature. Exactly. What's so hard about that? You left out my next statement... "Cats in "nature" live an average of 3 to 5 years and most of them look pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me." Cats, like humans in pre-history, tend to lead short, brutal lives when left on their own in nature. They don't have the benefit of the millions of dollars of research on cat health and nutrition that pet food companies have conducted in the last 60 years, so they eat whatever they can catch (which is not always the best thing for them, but it's all they can catch and staves off starvation). There are some people who have had success feeding their animals raw diets, but it's a *LOT* harder than it sounds, it takes a lot of research to get the right ingredients* in the right proportion - it's expensive - and you're still taking the chance that you've forgotten or don't know about some essential ingredient necessary to a cat's health. * And people are still using ingredients (pork, beef) that cats wouldn't normally eat in nature. -- Hugs, CatNipped See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ -- Toni http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com |
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