Cats and grains

wrote in message
I remember when CB radios had vacuum tubes. Heathkit still existed and
had real cool radio kits. My favorite radio receiver was a Hallicrafters
S-38 general coverage receiver

Remember the "Hero" robot from Heathkit? For years, I dreamed about owning
one of those. Haven't thought of Hero in years.

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

"Cats in "nature" live an average of 3 to 5 years and most of them look
pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me."

Cats, like humans in pre-history, tend to lead short, brutal lives when
left on their own in nature. They don't have the benefit of the millions
of dollars of research on cat health and nutrition that pet food companies
have conducted in the last 60 years, so they eat whatever they can catch
(which is not always the best thing for them, but it's all they can catch
and staves off starvation).



IMO the shorter lives are more often caused by cars, infections/fights,
kitten mortality, and other accidents than lack of proper food.


There are some people who have had success feeding their animals raw
diets, but it's a *LOT* harder than it sounds, it takes a lot of research
to get the right ingredients* in the right proportion - it's expensive -
and you're still taking the chance that you've forgotten or don't know
about some essential ingredient necessary to a cat's health.



Well- I can now walk into my pet shop and buy premade organic raw foods that
are every bit as researched and properly put together as processed dry
foods. I can buy lab raised frozen mice, lab raised crickets, cat grass, and
can order online a whole host of farm raised chickies, duckies, rats,
pheasant, etc.
Yes- it is quite a bit more expensive, but I figure on saving later in their
lives when they do not turn up with diabetes, hyperthyroidism, renal failure
etc. nor need dentals every year.


* And people are still using ingredients (pork, beef) that cats wouldn't
normally eat in nature.

That is true- I just ask myself if a cat could bring down and kill whatever
creature and if the answer is no my cats don't get it.

And I do have use for dry foods- Innova EVO is in my cupboard right now for
those days when raw is just not happening for whatever reason. I just avoid
those brands with what I consider to be excessive and unnecessary
carbohydrates that a cat would not ingest in nature- the subject of this
thread.


We're all just looking to do the best for our kitties in as reasonably a
safe, economical, and non labor intensive way as possible. Certain of our
own life beliefs influence the decisions we make for our animals, and as
long as what you feed is well researched and considered then it's fine by
me.


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

"Toni" wrote in message
. ..

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

"Cats in "nature" live an average of 3 to 5 years and most of them look
pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me."

Cats, like humans in pre-history, tend to lead short, brutal lives when
left on their own in nature. They don't have the benefit of the millions
of dollars of research on cat health and nutrition that pet food
companies have conducted in the last 60 years, so they eat whatever they
can catch (which is not always the best thing for them, but it's all they
can catch and staves off starvation).



IMO the shorter lives are more often caused by cars, infections/fights,
kitten mortality, and other accidents than lack of proper food.


There are some people who have had success feeding their animals raw
diets, but it's a *LOT* harder than it sounds, it takes a lot of research
to get the right ingredients* in the right proportion - it's expensive -
and you're still taking the chance that you've forgotten or don't know
about some essential ingredient necessary to a cat's health.



Well- I can now walk into my pet shop and buy premade organic raw foods
that are every bit as researched and properly put together as processed
dry foods. I can buy lab raised frozen mice, lab raised crickets, cat
grass, and can order online a whole host of farm raised chickies, duckies,
rats, pheasant, etc.
Yes- it is quite a bit more expensive, but I figure on saving later in
their lives when they do not turn up with diabetes, hyperthyroidism, renal
failure etc. nor need dentals every year.


* And people are still using ingredients (pork, beef) that cats wouldn't
normally eat in nature.

That is true- I just ask myself if a cat could bring down and kill
whatever creature and if the answer is no my cats don't get it.

And I do have use for dry foods- Innova EVO is in my cupboard right now
for those days when raw is just not happening for whatever reason. I just
avoid those brands with what I consider to be excessive and unnecessary
carbohydrates that a cat would not ingest in nature- the subject of this
thread.


We're all just looking to do the best for our kitties in as reasonably a
safe, economical, and non labor intensive way as possible. Certain of our
own life beliefs influence the decisions we make for our animals, and as
long as what you feed is well researched and considered then it's fine by
me.

True! Peace out!!!!

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/





--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

"Kiran" wrote in message
...
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/grains.php


Grain is man made -

Corn, rice, wheat are man-made? Okey dokey. See what I mean about Feline
Future being extreme and fanatical?



Now, at the dawn of mankind, grain was not a natural food for humans
either,


Bulli****. The first hominids were primarily herbivores. (That's why we
still have molars with fissured crowns instead of points)

snip

We had some good wars about "natural' fanaticism in this group a few years
ago. You can find them all in Google. I'm sure you'll get a few good laughs
from them. I did.

Phil

"Phil P." wrote:

Bulli****. The first hominids were primarily herbivores. (That's why we
still have molars with fissured crowns instead of points)

Phil, the Paleo diet did not consist of grains which is why there is a
strong following today advocating the Paleo diet.

-mhd

Phil P. wrote:

: "Kiran" wrote in message

I should have made it clearer that I was merely quoting an article by
someone else...

: Now, at the dawn of mankind, grain was not a natural food for
: humans
: either,
: Bulli****. The first hominids were primarily herbivores. (That's why we
: still have molars with fissured crowns instead of points)

While people ate roots and fruits for a long time, agriculture and
grains are more recent, under 15,000 yrs maybe.

This of cource has no bearing on whether *cats* should eat grains.
What is your view/experience on that?

wrote in message
...
"Phil P." wrote:

Bulli****. The first hominids were primarily herbivores. (That's why we
still have molars with fissured crowns instead of points)

Phil, the Paleo diet did not consist of grains which is why there is a
strong following today advocating the Paleo diet.



I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the early hominids were herbivores and
ate primarily plant material.

"Kiran" wrote in message
...
Phil P. wrote:

: "Kiran" wrote in message

I should have made it clearer that I was merely quoting an article by
someone else...

Yes, I know. I was commenting on the irrelevancies in the site.



: Now, at the dawn of mankind, grain was not a natural food for
: humans
: either,
: Bulli****. The first hominids were primarily herbivores. (That's why we
: still have molars with fissured crowns instead of points)

While people ate roots and fruits for a long time, agriculture and
grains are more recent, under 15,000 yrs maybe.


Hominids ate plant material long before they ate meat.



This of cource has no bearing on whether *cats* should eat grains.


Yep, I know. What humans ate has no bearing on what cats should eat. I have
no idea why Feline Future even mentioned human diets. See what I mean about
the site?


What is your view/experience on that?

Are you referring to carbohydrates in general or grains in particular?

Phil P. wrote:

: [on whether *cats* should eat grains]
: Are you referring to carbohydrates in general or grains in particular?

Whatever makes sense nutritionwise. I believe most of the controversy
is about grains (wheat, corn, rice, etc).

As fruits and vegetables are expensive and cats can't taste sugar, I
can't imagine too many manufacturers getting carried away with those.
So probably grains are the heroes of our story!

"Kiran" wrote in message
...
Phil P. wrote:

: [on whether *cats* should eat grains]
: Are you referring to carbohydrates in general or grains in particular?

Whatever makes sense nutritionwise. I believe most of the controversy
is about grains (wheat, corn, rice, etc).

As fruits and vegetables are expensive and cats can't taste sugar, I
can't imagine too many manufacturers getting carried away with those.

Better take a look at Wellness! Its practically a fruit salad! lol

"Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Flaxseed, Squash,
Cranberries, Blueberries, Zucchini"

They've substituted fruits and vegetables- which have a higher glycemic
index than most grains.


So probably grains are the heroes of our story!

A small amount of grain is ok. What Feline Future doesn't tell you is that
carbs have a protein-sparing effect.

A lot of people misuse the term "obligate carnivore"- it means the cat
*must* eat meat because some essential nutrients for cats are only found in
meat. It doesn't mean the cat must eat *only* meat.

Phil