ProPlan vs Nutro

I wish I could also find a good quality canned food that they like. I
have tried them all, Wellness, Inova, etc. The only canned foods they
like are Trader Joe brand. I expect it's not very high quality, but the
label just says things like, beef, chicken and so forth. It doesn't
mention any meat by-products.

How about Nutro canned? My three indoor cats love it. They eat only
canned, since one can't eat dry and I want to minimize eating
complications.

They were raised on Nutro Max Kitten, Royal Canin, and Nutro Max Kitten
canned when they were younger, but they don't like any of the Nutro
canned anymore.

I give them ProPlan canned food. The only one they like is the turkey
cubes in gravy. They lick off all the gravy and eat most of the cubes.
I also get the ProPlan salmon and the sardine in aspic. It looks really
good - big chunks of real fish - but they only eat a little of it so the
outside guys usually end up eating it.

I have three "outside cats". One is a feral who has gotten pretty tame
and lives in the garden. If he's hungry, he will eat whatever kind of
food I give him.

The other two belong to neighbors, but they come over here for handouts.
Sometimes they want the dry, sometimes they want canned food. If I bring
the wrong one, they will holler and bang on the door until I bring out
the one they have a taste for at that particular time.

Everybody (except the coons) seems to like the Trader Joe brand, which
makes me suspicious of it, but Trader Joe specializes in natural and
organic foods for humans, so I'm hoping the cat food is also good.

"kaeli" wrote in message
...

The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking...
(I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me)

My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova,
etc. They despise Science Diet.
I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some
labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it
to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). I don't
know a lot about the subject, not that I haven't tried to read the sites
like Max's House and such.

So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Pro Plan:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 34.0%
Crude fat (min.) 14.0%
Crude fiber (max.) 2.0%
Moisture (max.) 12.0%
Linoleic acid (min.) 1.4%
Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.85%
Phosphorus (P)(min.) 0.8%
Magnesium (Mg) (max.) 0.12%
Vitamin A (min.) 10,000 IU/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.15%

Ingredients:
Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, whole
grain corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of
Vitamin E), soybean meal, wheat flour, fish meal, egg product,
phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, natural
flavors, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, salt, choline
chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), taurine, zinc sulfate,
ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), L-Alanine,
riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate,
biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride,
copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source
of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. F-4629

Nutro Max:
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat
(preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E),
Ground Whole Wheat, Lamb Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors,
Brewers Dried Yeast, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, DL-
Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper
Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine
Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of
Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12
Supplement.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals,
including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.

Kaeli,

I was a strong Nutro propnent for many years until I noticed a decline in
the quality of the food as evidenced by increasing P & Ca levels (from
cheaper cuts of meat with a lot of bone). At about the same time, I noticed
Nutro no longer uses animal feeding trials to assess the digestibility and
nutritional adequacy of their foods. Instead of expensive feeding trials,
Nutro switched to cheaper chemical analysis. Little or nothing can be
derived from chemical analysis about palatability, digestibility, and
biological availability of nutrients. This maybe one of the reasons why
many long-term Nuto eaters now refuse the same food.

To make matters worse and support my suspicions, Nutro stopped publishing
the proximate analyses of their diets on their website. The PAs listed the
analysis of all their diets on a DM, AF and caloric basis.

To my mind, Nutro isn't the same food upon which their reputation was
built.... (maybe the second or third generation took over the compay and are
only interested in the bucks).

At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind
Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the
two, I'd go with Purina...

Phil

"kaeli" wrote in message
...

The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking...
(I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me)

My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova,
etc. They despise Science Diet.
I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some
labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it
to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). I don't
know a lot about the subject, not that I haven't tried to read the sites
like Max's House and such.

So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Pro Plan:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 34.0%
Crude fat (min.) 14.0%
Crude fiber (max.) 2.0%
Moisture (max.) 12.0%
Linoleic acid (min.) 1.4%
Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.85%
Phosphorus (P)(min.) 0.8%
Magnesium (Mg) (max.) 0.12%
Vitamin A (min.) 10,000 IU/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.15%

Ingredients:
Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, whole
grain corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of
Vitamin E), soybean meal, wheat flour, fish meal, egg product,
phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, natural
flavors, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, salt, choline
chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), taurine, zinc sulfate,
ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), L-Alanine,
riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate,
biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride,
copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source
of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. F-4629

Nutro Max:
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat
(preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E),
Ground Whole Wheat, Lamb Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors,
Brewers Dried Yeast, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, DL-
Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper
Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine
Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of
Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12
Supplement.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals,
including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.

Kaeli,

I was a strong Nutro propnent for many years until I noticed a decline in
the quality of the food as evidenced by increasing P & Ca levels (from
cheaper cuts of meat with a lot of bone). At about the same time, I noticed
Nutro no longer uses animal feeding trials to assess the digestibility and
nutritional adequacy of their foods. Instead of expensive feeding trials,
Nutro switched to cheaper chemical analysis. Little or nothing can be
derived from chemical analysis about palatability, digestibility, and
biological availability of nutrients. This maybe one of the reasons why
many long-term Nuto eaters now refuse the same food.

To make matters worse and support my suspicions, Nutro stopped publishing
the proximate analyses of their diets on their website. The PAs listed the
analysis of all their diets on a DM, AF and caloric basis.

To my mind, Nutro isn't the same food upon which their reputation was
built.... (maybe the second or third generation took over the compay and are
only interested in the bucks).

At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind
Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the
two, I'd go with Purina...

Phil

kaeli wrote:

The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking...
(I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me)

My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova,
etc. They despise Science Diet.
I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some
labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it
to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). I don't
know a lot about the subject, not that I haven't tried to read the sites
like Max's House and such.

So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Pro Plan:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 34.0%
Crude fat (min.) 14.0%
Crude fiber (max.) 2.0%
Moisture (max.) 12.0%
Linoleic acid (min.) 1.4%
Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.85%
Phosphorus (P)(min.) 0.8%
Magnesium (Mg) (max.) 0.12%
Vitamin A (min.) 10,000 IU/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.15%

Ingredients:
Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, whole
grain corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of
Vitamin E), soybean meal, wheat flour, fish meal, egg product,
phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, natural
flavors, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, salt, choline
chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), taurine, zinc sulfate,
ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), L-Alanine,
riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate,
biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride,
copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source
of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. F-4629

Nutro Max:
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat
(preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E),
Ground Whole Wheat, Lamb Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors,
Brewers Dried Yeast, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, DL-
Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper
Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine
Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of
Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12
Supplement.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals,
including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.


I would say that the Nutro is better than the Proplan because:

1. The sources of meat in PP is meat as opposed to meat meal which is
the meat with the moisture removed. Nutro's meat is all meat meal which
is better. The Nutro has more actual meat in it than the proplan because
once you remove the moisture in the beef in PP it will no longer be the
first ingredient.

2. Nutro contains no meat by products.

3. PP contains whole grain corn as the #5 ingredient - just all filler -
cats have no need for corn.

4. PP contains soybean meal - another filler.

kaeli wrote:

The recent nutrition conversation has gotten me thinking...
(I know, that's dangerous, but bear with me)

My cats won't touch any of the really good foods, like Wellness, Innova,
etc. They despise Science Diet.
I used to feed Nutro, but then heard bad things about them. I read some
labels and found that Purina ProPlan seemed the best food (I compared it
to the other high brands like IAMS, Science Diet, and Wellness). I don't
know a lot about the subject, not that I haven't tried to read the sites
like Max's House and such.

So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Pro Plan:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein (min.) 34.0%
Crude fat (min.) 14.0%
Crude fiber (max.) 2.0%
Moisture (max.) 12.0%
Linoleic acid (min.) 1.4%
Calcium (Ca) (min.) 0.85%
Phosphorus (P)(min.) 0.8%
Magnesium (Mg) (max.) 0.12%
Vitamin A (min.) 10,000 IU/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.15%

Ingredients:
Beef, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, whole
grain corn, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of
Vitamin E), soybean meal, wheat flour, fish meal, egg product,
phosphoric acid, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, natural
flavors, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate, salt, choline
chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), taurine, zinc sulfate,
ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), L-Alanine,
riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate,
biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride,
copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source
of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. F-4629

Nutro Max:
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Rice, Poultry Fat
(preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E),
Ground Whole Wheat, Lamb Meal, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavors,
Brewers Dried Yeast, Monosodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, DL-
Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper
Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Calcium
Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine
Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of
Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12
Supplement.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals,
including those used by our suppliers who provide our ingredients.


I would say that the Nutro is better than the Proplan because:

1. The sources of meat in PP is meat as opposed to meat meal which is
the meat with the moisture removed. Nutro's meat is all meat meal which
is better. The Nutro has more actual meat in it than the proplan because
once you remove the moisture in the beef in PP it will no longer be the
first ingredient.

2. Nutro contains no meat by products.

3. PP contains whole grain corn as the #5 ingredient - just all filler -
cats have no need for corn.

4. PP contains soybean meal - another filler.

And on the day 22 Aug 2003 02:25:06 GMT, enlightened
us with ...
So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Interesting (and revealing) that Nutro wouldn't put their phosphorus levels on
the bag--unless you just didn't include them. Nutro is notorious for having
high levels of phosphorus and calcium.




I copied whatever ther website had, so no, they didn't list it.


--------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions
and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you
are God.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/
------------------------------------------------

And on the day 22 Aug 2003 02:25:06 GMT, enlightened
us with ...
So anyway, is Proplan a good food?
Nutro seems like it isn't as good based on the labels... Those are the
only two my cats like except for the real crap like Fancy Feast and Cat
Chow.
Can anyone decipher this for me? *BG*

Interesting (and revealing) that Nutro wouldn't put their phosphorus levels on
the bag--unless you just didn't include them. Nutro is notorious for having
high levels of phosphorus and calcium.




I copied whatever ther website had, so no, they didn't list it.


--------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions
and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you
are God.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/
------------------------------------------------

And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400,
enlightened us with ...

At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind
Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the
two, I'd go with Purina...


What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients?



--------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions
and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you
are God.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/
------------------------------------------------

And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400,
enlightened us with ...

At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind
Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the
two, I'd go with Purina...


What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients?



--------------------------------------------------
~kaeli~
Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions
and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you
are God.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace/
------------------------------------------------

kaeli wrote in message . att.net...
And on the day Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:03:14 -0400,
enlightened us with ...

At leat there's science behind Purina diets - I don't know what's behind
Nutro's diets anymore (except greed). If you cats won't eat SD, of the
two, I'd go with Purina...


What do you think of the meat vs meal meal ingredients?


"Meat" like "chicken", "beef" etc is what is called "wet" meat, it
includes all the moisture that will be cooked away during processing.
About 70% of the weight of a wet meat is lost in the production
process.

"meat meal" like "Chicken meal", "beef meal" etc is merely the dried
version of the same thing, the water has been removed before
processing begins.

Manufacturers use a "wet" meat to make it appear that a food contains
more of a given ingredient and move that ingredient higher on the
ingredient list. Ingredients are listed in order of the weight of each
ingredient prior to the acutal manufacturng process.

For example suppose a food had the following list of ingredients:

chicken, corn meal, rice flour, vegetable oil
the above ingredient list could contain the following:
15 ounces of chicken
14 ounces of corn meal
13 ounces of rice flour
12 ounces of vegetable oil

After the food is processed and the water is removed the food actually
has the following amounts of each ingredient
15 ounces of wet meat chicken, less 70% water = 4.5 oounces chicken
14 ounces of corn meal, less 10% moisture = 12.6 ounces corn meal
13 ounces of rice flour, less 10% moisture = 11.7 ounces of rice flour
12 ounces of vegetable oil, less 0% moisture = 12 ounces of vegetable
oil.

If this same food had been produced using chicken meal instead of
chicken the chicken would have been listed fourth on the ingredient
list instead of first. Remember this is just a very rough example
designed as an example of the process.