Feeding questions

From: (GAUBSTER2)


Dear Chris.

You are wrong.

Very, very wrong. And it's getting on my nerves. No emoticons here.

In fact, post proof or retract your statement that ""All life stage"
foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate for kittens, not adult
or senior animals."


What's getting on my nerves is that this is SO easy to understand. ANY food
that is labelled "all life stages" (according to the AAFCO statement) has
passed the minimum requirements to sustain the most demanding stage of
life--the growth (kitten) stage. An "all life stage" food may contain levels
of nutrients that are more appropriate for a kitten and not appropriate
(excesses of nutrients) for an adult or senior cat (which may require lower
levels of certain nutrients, not higher). That's just the way it is. It
shouldn't be hard to understand. Kittens REQUIRE (for proper nutrition)
higher
levels of fat, protein, phosphorus, calcium, etc. Adult and senior cats do
not
require the same levels of those nutrients as they did when they were
kittens.
Don't trick people into thinking that feeding an "all life stage" food to an
older cat is okay. It may NOT be. That's all I'm saying. For anyone to
come
on here (especially after reading all of the info that has been posted about
all life stage foods) and then ADVOCATE feeding this type of product is not
being responsible. Will feeding an "all life stage" food guarantee problems?

Of course not. Are you avoiding risk factors by feeding this type of food?
No.

Wrong. Now go get the proof that Alison asked for or shut up.
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

GAUBSTER2 wrote:

Karen, you're wrong. Haven't you been reading the all life stage food

posts?

Any food whose AAFCO label states that it is for "all life stages" IS a

kitten

food. "All life stage" foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate

for

kittens, not adult or senior animals.

G, please keep your insane need to argue away from this posting. This
person wants help. I think this person is smart enough to take what is
written and go look into appropriate foods for her cats.



But if you are providing WRONG information, I would hope that the OP would want
to know that. Keep your wrong information to yourself and no one will have to
correct you.

You're just trying to provoke another war, which for some reason you
seem to love. You made your point, I made mine. Drop it and let the OP
get on with it. Of course, I doubt the OP is who you're concerned with
here.

GAUBSTER2 wrote:

Karen, you're wrong. Haven't you been reading the all life stage food

posts?

Any food whose AAFCO label states that it is for "all life stages" IS a

kitten

food. "All life stage" foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate

for

kittens, not adult or senior animals.

G, please keep your insane need to argue away from this posting. This
person wants help. I think this person is smart enough to take what is
written and go look into appropriate foods for her cats.



But if you are providing WRONG information, I would hope that the OP would want
to know that. Keep your wrong information to yourself and no one will have to
correct you.

You're just trying to provoke another war, which for some reason you
seem to love. You made your point, I made mine. Drop it and let the OP
get on with it. Of course, I doubt the OP is who you're concerned with
here.

(GAUBSTER2) wrote in message ...
From: "Karen M."

(...)

Karen, you're wrong. Haven't you been reading the all life stage food
posts? Any food whose AAFCO label states that it is for "all life stages" IS
a kitten food. "All life stage" foods have to contain nutrient levels
appropriate for kittens, not adult or senior animals.

Mr G,

You are wrong.

Again. And again.

In the thread somewhere thataway, I pointed out in some detail why you
are wrong. I provided links to some sites that list nutrient values of
various foods, where your errors are trivial for anyone to see.

TBH, I can only conclude that:

- You are trolling,
- Absolutely nothing you say should be taken at face value; I would
strongly advise anyone reading your posts to NOT believe anything you
say.

Food composition et al: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/

This data appears to be provided by someone without an axe to grind,
or agenda to heave around.


From the FDA's site (http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petlabel.htm):

Regarding ALS foods, '...the higher levels of nutrients would not be
harmful to the healthy adult animal...'

And:
'A maintenance ration will meet the needs of an adult, non-reproducing
dog or cat of *normal* activity, but may not be sufficient for a
growing, reproducing, or *hard-working* animal'

Emphasis (*) added.

But, returning to the OP, in an attempt to avoid a complete derailment
by Gaubster:

How long should he be on kitten food?

How long's a piece of string? Put it this way - after 1 year or so, he
will have stopped growing.


I hesitate to ask as I
gather there is a debate over dry and wet food but should he be on more
"wet" food because he is a male?

I would say yes.

He doesn't seem to want to eat much at one
sitting but would rather munch during the day. This is a challenge as Isabel
is a total chow hound and must be watched like a hawk or she'll eat the
kitten food if left out.
Any suggestions how to handle the needs of all these guys so that they all
get what they need?

You could try to find a food that seems to fit the nutrional
requirements of both growing cats and adult cats - have a look at the
Katkarma link - and so no longer care if they eat each other's food.
But, TBH, the actual food you want to feed doesn't seem to be your
problem - more, how to get the khats to eat *when* they are supposed
to.

You can train the kitten to eat at set times in the day. Just put the
food down at set times, and remove it after a certain period of time.
Khatoid will then learn that if he doesn't chow down *now*, he'll have
to wait a few hours for the next feed. Not sure I would be entirely
happy doing this with a youngish kitten though.

You could try to find a food that one cat likes, but the other does
not (yeah, right).

I think you can get automated feeder bowls that open at set times? Or
maybe I'm imagining this?

Steve.

(GAUBSTER2) wrote in message ...
From: "Karen M."

(...)

Karen, you're wrong. Haven't you been reading the all life stage food
posts? Any food whose AAFCO label states that it is for "all life stages" IS
a kitten food. "All life stage" foods have to contain nutrient levels
appropriate for kittens, not adult or senior animals.

Mr G,

You are wrong.

Again. And again.

In the thread somewhere thataway, I pointed out in some detail why you
are wrong. I provided links to some sites that list nutrient values of
various foods, where your errors are trivial for anyone to see.

TBH, I can only conclude that:

- You are trolling,
- Absolutely nothing you say should be taken at face value; I would
strongly advise anyone reading your posts to NOT believe anything you
say.

Food composition et al: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/

This data appears to be provided by someone without an axe to grind,
or agenda to heave around.


From the FDA's site (http://www.fda.gov/cvm/index/consumer/petlabel.htm):

Regarding ALS foods, '...the higher levels of nutrients would not be
harmful to the healthy adult animal...'

And:
'A maintenance ration will meet the needs of an adult, non-reproducing
dog or cat of *normal* activity, but may not be sufficient for a
growing, reproducing, or *hard-working* animal'

Emphasis (*) added.

But, returning to the OP, in an attempt to avoid a complete derailment
by Gaubster:

How long should he be on kitten food?

How long's a piece of string? Put it this way - after 1 year or so, he
will have stopped growing.


I hesitate to ask as I
gather there is a debate over dry and wet food but should he be on more
"wet" food because he is a male?

I would say yes.

He doesn't seem to want to eat much at one
sitting but would rather munch during the day. This is a challenge as Isabel
is a total chow hound and must be watched like a hawk or she'll eat the
kitten food if left out.
Any suggestions how to handle the needs of all these guys so that they all
get what they need?

You could try to find a food that seems to fit the nutrional
requirements of both growing cats and adult cats - have a look at the
Katkarma link - and so no longer care if they eat each other's food.
But, TBH, the actual food you want to feed doesn't seem to be your
problem - more, how to get the khats to eat *when* they are supposed
to.

You can train the kitten to eat at set times in the day. Just put the
food down at set times, and remove it after a certain period of time.
Khatoid will then learn that if he doesn't chow down *now*, he'll have
to wait a few hours for the next feed. Not sure I would be entirely
happy doing this with a youngish kitten though.

You could try to find a food that one cat likes, but the other does
not (yeah, right).

I think you can get automated feeder bowls that open at set times? Or
maybe I'm imagining this?

Steve.

GAUBSTER2 wrote:
Dear Chris.

You are wrong.

Very, very wrong. And it's getting on my nerves. No emoticons here.

In fact, post proof or retract your statement that ""All life stage"
foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate for kittens, not adult
or senior animals."



What's getting on my nerves is that this is SO easy to understand. ANY food
that is labelled "all life stages" (according to the AAFCO statement) has
passed the minimum requirements to sustain the most demanding stage of
life--the growth (kitten) stage. An "all life stage" food may contain levels
of nutrients that are more appropriate for a kitten and not appropriate
(excesses of nutrients) for an adult or senior cat (which may require lower
levels of certain nutrients, not higher). That's just the way it is. It
shouldn't be hard to understand. Kittens REQUIRE (for proper nutrition) higher
levels of fat, protein, phosphorus, calcium, etc. Adult and senior cats do not
require the same levels of those nutrients as they did when they were kittens.
Don't trick people into thinking that feeding an "all life stage" food to an
older cat is okay. It may NOT be. That's all I'm saying. For anyone to come
on here (especially after reading all of the info that has been posted about
all life stage foods) and then ADVOCATE feeding this type of product is not
being responsible. Will feeding an "all life stage" food guarantee problems?
Of course not. Are you avoiding risk factors by feeding this type of food?
No.

Something to keep in mind here, if the food meets ALL lifestages as per
AAFCO it also means it contains a MINIMUM of 0.8 % (dry matter basis) of
phosphorous.

Even if the manufacturer doesn't say the food meets ALL lifestages but
you do the comparison of the proximate analysis with the AAFCO Growth
and Reproduction minimums and all those minimums are met... then the
food is an ALL lifestages as per AAFCO standards.

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

GAUBSTER2 wrote:
Dear Chris.

You are wrong.

Very, very wrong. And it's getting on my nerves. No emoticons here.

In fact, post proof or retract your statement that ""All life stage"
foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate for kittens, not adult
or senior animals."



What's getting on my nerves is that this is SO easy to understand. ANY food
that is labelled "all life stages" (according to the AAFCO statement) has
passed the minimum requirements to sustain the most demanding stage of
life--the growth (kitten) stage. An "all life stage" food may contain levels
of nutrients that are more appropriate for a kitten and not appropriate
(excesses of nutrients) for an adult or senior cat (which may require lower
levels of certain nutrients, not higher). That's just the way it is. It
shouldn't be hard to understand. Kittens REQUIRE (for proper nutrition) higher
levels of fat, protein, phosphorus, calcium, etc. Adult and senior cats do not
require the same levels of those nutrients as they did when they were kittens.
Don't trick people into thinking that feeding an "all life stage" food to an
older cat is okay. It may NOT be. That's all I'm saying. For anyone to come
on here (especially after reading all of the info that has been posted about
all life stage foods) and then ADVOCATE feeding this type of product is not
being responsible. Will feeding an "all life stage" food guarantee problems?
Of course not. Are you avoiding risk factors by feeding this type of food?
No.

Something to keep in mind here, if the food meets ALL lifestages as per
AAFCO it also means it contains a MINIMUM of 0.8 % (dry matter basis) of
phosphorous.

Even if the manufacturer doesn't say the food meets ALL lifestages but
you do the comparison of the proximate analysis with the AAFCO Growth
and Reproduction minimums and all those minimums are met... then the
food is an ALL lifestages as per AAFCO standards.

--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

In om,
Steve G composed with style:

You could try to find a food that one cat likes, but the other does
not (yeah, right).

Believe it or not, but my 3 each eat different wet food. I dunno how
that happened but it works out.

I think you can get automated feeder bowls that open at set times?
Or
maybe I'm imagining this?

Yup. Petco has 'em but they're like US $30 so I haven't tried it.
The even have a cold pack to put in the bottom for wet food. Same
price plus shipping in F&S catalog.

In om,
Steve G composed with style:

You could try to find a food that one cat likes, but the other does
not (yeah, right).

Believe it or not, but my 3 each eat different wet food. I dunno how
that happened but it works out.

I think you can get automated feeder bowls that open at set times?
Or
maybe I'm imagining this?

Yup. Petco has 'em but they're like US $30 so I haven't tried it.
The even have a cold pack to put in the bottom for wet food. Same
price plus shipping in F&S catalog.

GAUBSTER2 wrote:
Dear Chris.

You are wrong.

Very, very wrong. And it's getting on my nerves. No emoticons here.

In fact, post proof or retract your statement that ""All life stage"
foods have to contain nutrient levels appropriate for kittens, not adult
or senior animals."



What's getting on my nerves is that this is SO easy to understand. ANY food
that is labelled "all life stages" (according to the AAFCO statement) has
passed the minimum requirements to sustain the most demanding stage of
life--the growth (kitten) stage. An "all life stage" food may contain levels
of nutrients that are more appropriate for a kitten and not appropriate
(excesses of nutrients) for an adult or senior cat (which may require lower
levels of certain nutrients, not higher). That's just the way it is. It
shouldn't be hard to understand. Kittens REQUIRE (for proper nutrition) higher
levels of fat, protein, phosphorus, calcium, etc. Adult and senior cats do not
require the same levels of those nutrients as they did when they were kittens.
Don't trick people into thinking that feeding an "all life stage" food to an
older cat is okay. It may NOT be. That's all I'm saying.

I'd tend to agree with this considering all life stages will contain a
minimum of 0.8 % DMB phosphorous... if an older cat does have
undiagnosed CRF the phosphorous will speed the disease along.


For anyone to come
on here (especially after reading all of the info that has been posted about
all life stage foods) and then ADVOCATE feeding this type of product is not
being responsible. Will feeding an "all life stage" food guarantee problems?
Of course not. Are you avoiding risk factors by feeding this type of food?
No.


--
"Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck