Best way to keep us all cool?

Pat wrote:

Would it help if I put a box fan on top of the floor grate, blowing upward?

Couldn't hurt - any additional source of cooler air should help.

Should the window fan be blowing in, rather than sucking out?

In at night, out during the day? (I gather you already have thermal
drapes you can close during the day.)

If this was
your house, how would you arrange it? (don't tell me to install a/c; I can't
afford the appliance OR the extra electricity) (and no, I am not in a place
where a swamp cooler would do any good)

You say a swamp cooler wouldn't help. If you live where large blocks of
ice are available, how about setting a few in tubs and positioning your
room fans to blow across them? That might be a little better than a
simple evaporative cooler. I think it was the Prague opera-house (built
long before refrigeration) that had grills in the floor of the
high-priced main-floor seating area. Our guide told us that, in the
days of the Austro-Hungarian empire, they cooled the auditorium by
fanning air across ice-blocks positioned under the grids.

On 7/11/2011 10:39 PM, Yowie wrote:
In ,
typed:
I hope someone with a brain for physics can explain to me how to
maximize cooling of this non-air-conditioned house. It's been super
hot here lately and the cats, the hoomins and the bunny wabbit are
all suffering. But maybe we are doing something wrong....

Early in the morning we close up the thermal windows and doors
against the heat. This usually keeps the indoor temp about 20 degrees
cooler than outdoors until the middle to late afternoon. As the day
wears on, the temp differential shrinks until finally around 9 PM it
is equal and that's when we open all the windows and doors to let the
house cool down during the night.

Except lately the house isn't cooling down enough during the night
for it to be pleasant inside the next day. It was still 80 degrees
inside at 7 AM today. Normally it's at least down to 75. The outdoor
temp is going down lower than that most nights. Right now, at 10 PM,
it's 87 in here.
Tonight I want to do something to change the situation, if possible.
If I can figure out what it will take.

There is a 2'x3' hole in the floor in the center of the house, where
a floor furnace used to be. As of now, there is a metal grate sitting
in that hole and it lets cool air from the basement come up. There's
a window fan in the upper sash of one window sucking air out, which
helps to pull the cooler air up from the basement (door to the
outside is open down there). When I stand on the grate, I can feel
the cool air coming up.
I've also got 4 ceiling fans running at top speed. I noticed while
cleaning them yesterday that each one has a switch that can be used
to make it turn in the opposite direction. I don't know which way the
fans *should* be turning to help cool down the house at night, but I
know that when one is turning counter-clockwise, it produces more of
a "breeze" on my body if I stand under it.

Would it help if I put a box fan on top of the floor grate, blowing
upward? Should the window fan be blowing in, rather than sucking out?
If this was your house, how would you arrange it? (don't tell me to
install a/c; I can't afford the appliance OR the extra electricity)
(and no, I am not in a place where a swamp cooler would do any good)

Thanks in advance for any advice. And BTW I wear wet clothes in the
house, even in bed at night. It is the only way I've managed to
survive so far. But I'd really like for the house to be cooler, for
many reasons, not least of which is I think this computer would last
longer. Certainly the cats would be more comfortable, and so would
the bunny.

Its as simple as this:

Hot air rises, cold air falls.

Which is why the air in your basement is cooler than the air in your
ceiling.

What you need to do is suck as much cool air from the basement *into* your
house, and blow as much hot air from the ceiling/roof out of your house.

The fan blowing upwards over hte basement grate is *exactly* what you should
be doing. At the top of each window, blow the air out. Even better, blow it
out the top of yoru roof

I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get yor roof
fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the hottest air from
your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply by convection. It needs
no power. What is a whirley bird? They look like this:

http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are pumping into
your house.

And yes, closing up the house from the heat is the right thing to do until
it gets to the point where the house and the atmosphere are about the same
temp, and then you need to get rid of the heat in your house pronto.

The ceiling fans are there to mix the air up so there's not hot and no cold
spots, not necessarily to move air from one place to another. They are
generally set to provide a breeze in summer so as to increase the
evaopration of sweat on your skin, leaving you feeling a little cooler. If
you like the breeze, set it that way, but remember that they'll 'mix up' the
air. If you are trying to blow coool air in and blow hot air out, don't use
the ceiling fan in any other room than the one you are in and need the
'breeze'.

Placing a damp open weave cloth over the basement grate will cool the air
even more - this is the essence of a swamp cooler.

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south& west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating the
heat into the house.

Common sense dictates that you restict the use of 'heat making' equipment -
including computers, tvs, incandescent lights, cooking etc etc - to the
minimum necessary, and preferrably in a room where you can close the door
and go to a cooler part of the house when finished.

In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing walls,

One of the requirements I had when we were house hunting was that the
house be in a neighborhood that had lots and lots of trees - shade is
essential in this Houston heat! I can't understand why builders will
but acres of land for their tract housing and promptly cut down every
single tree in sight. I would not buy a house here that wasn't shaded
on all sides by dense, tall trees.

Pat, in lieu of trees it may help to use a tarp of something to create a
"roof" on the south and west side of the house to provide shade and
prevent the sun from shining directly on the house

you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out walls in summer,
but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter. Another trick is to paint
your roof white and use as much insulation as you can in your roof cavity.

Yowie
(Aussies are great at keeping cool in summer. We have no idea about how to
keep warm in winter, though)




--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, created by "Yowie", maintained by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.net/rpcablog/

Email: L(dot)T(dot)Crews(at)comcast(dot)net

Yowie wrote:
In ,
Pat typed:

I don't know what you call them over there, but if you can get yor roof
fitted with a whirley bird, that will happily remove the hottest air from
your roof cavity and draw in the cooler air simply by convection. It needs
no power. What is a whirley bird? They look like this:

http://www.sheds2go.com.au/images/am...hirly-bird.jpg

You can close them in winter so you don't lose the heat you are pumping into
your house.

I'm not sure what they're called, either, but several older houses where
I lived in California had them, and they really did seem to help.
(Although I suspect that's one place those little fruit rats were
getting into the attic.)

Pat wrote:

I do have a bunch of attic vents, but I mainly did that because mold was
growing up on the rafters. If I get this thing, do I then need to leave the
attic entrance open at all times? It's just a hole in the ceiling, covered
with a board. It's inside a small closet which is normally kept closed. I
used to think if I left both closet and attic entry open in summer, it would
help, but I don't think it worked, it didn't seem to make a difference. I
once left the attic entry open with the closet door shut. This caused the
contents of the closet to heat up a lot and made me wonder if the heat was
coming down even more when the closet door was open..

The "whirly bird" is essentially a fan operated by the convective air
current. The hot air naturally rises to the top of the house - with the
convective exhaust fan operating, it just continues on up through the
attic vent, allowing cooler air to rise and occupy the attic space. (It
only "runs" in one direction - which is why you close it off in winter
to prevent warm air escaping when you WANT it to stay indoors.)

jmcquown wrote:

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here.

I didn't think your house was that big. I just thought I'd suggest it, Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
clothes. Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

Pat wrote:

Yowie wrote

And if you have excess amounts of water (water is almost always restricted
here), as soon as the sun goes down, spray the down the south & west walls
of the house. It will cool them down and stop them continuing radiating
the heat into the house.

The walls stay pretty cool. The ceiling doesn't. Wouldn't spraying the roof
work better? It doesn't really matter, because the water here isn't free;
any extra used has to go on the garden.

Pat, you should look into gray water. That's water that has already been
used for something else, such as laundry. You have to invest some amount to
set it up, but once you have it in place, it could reduce your water usage
by a significant amount. Gray water is good for things like watering a
garden or, in your case, hosing down the sides of the house on hot days.

Joyce

wrote in message ...

jmcquown wrote:

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here.

I didn't think your house was that big. I just thought I'd suggest it,
Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
clothes. Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

- - - - - - - -

Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. I think you could run several
ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much current
as an a/c. Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less efficient
than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large). If
it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one.
They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

MaryL

On Jul 12, 2:42*pm, "MaryL" wrote:
wrote in t...

jmcquown wrote:
I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here.
I didn't think your house was that big. *I just thought I'd suggest it,
Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
clothes. *Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

- - - - - - - -

Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. *I think you could run several
ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much current
as an a/c. *Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less efficient
than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large). *If
it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one..
They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

MaryL

As someone who considers theirself a minor expert on a/c cost vs. fans
(why do you think
they named it the Sunshine State? Because it is *cool*? ) I said
nothing up to now but if
you want my input
MaryL is right on target about small a/c units (window units). Jill's
suggestion was very kind
but what would happen if you tried to cool entire large house (not
including basement) with
one (say 5000btu) instead of just a medium-size bedroom would be that
the unit would soon
burn itself out by 24/7 daily running, trying to cool area larger than
its capacity to do.
I had a central a/c unit in FL with vents in every room but only used
it when company came
over as I grew up when no one had a/c in homes and extreme sticky heat
doesn''t bother
me at all....but....a central unit has capacity to cool large house
area. OR...just one room.
Fans use *much* less power than any a/c unit; the power gobbler with a/
c is the *condenser*
its *cooling* mechanism. Once in awhile in FL I would turn on *just
the fan* on the central
unit, which circulated air and helped a little on scorching days
outside. What helped when
the unit needed repairs was my family there has friends who are a/c
mechanics and would
charge us only for parts needed.
Also, Lori is right about the shade trees; my FL house had large trees
hanging over it on
south side (house faced due east) and cooled *one side* of house from
worst heat of day:
early afternoon, south side.
No one I ever heard of, including me, ever had the notion of *hosing
down the outside walls*
of the house to cool the inside. Sounded nutty to me till I remembered
most FL home construction
is CBS, not wood nor brick (two materials bigtime expensive to haul
down to south FL.) You
could hose till doomsday on concrete walls with no result inside from
your effort.

MaryL wrote:



wrote in message ...

jmcquown wrote:

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here.

I didn't think your house was that big. I just thought I'd suggest it,
Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
clothes. Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

- - - - - - - -

Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. I think you could run several
ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much current
as an a/c. Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less efficient
than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large). If
it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one.
They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

Which is more energy efficient? Non=portable fans? Why is that? All my fans
are portable. Why would they be less efficient than non-portable? For that
matter, what is a non-portable fan? Other than a ceiling fan, thatis.

Joyce


--
- Mommy loves you too my sweaty litter baby fire
- Ummm what mom?
- MY SWEET LITTLE BABY GIRL!! sorry honey!
-- damnyouautocorrect.com

On 7/12/2011 11:51 AM, Pat wrote:
wrote

If you're not opposed to the idea, I'd be willing to chip in some money to
buy a window air conditioning unit for your house. I seem to remember we
did that for kilikini. I remember all too well what it was like living in
a small apartment (35 years ago) in the Tennessee heat without A/C. I
couldn't sleep it was so hot. As we get older we don't deal with the heat
as well and neither do our furry friends. I cannot imagine wearing wet
clothes to bed.

I'd be willing to pitch in $15. I found a window unit online from Home
Depot for $99. I think the highest price I found was $200. Anyone else
willing to chip in some money to cool Pat and her critters off?

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here. The main central part of the house is much too
big for a small unit to cool. That would leave putting it in one of the
bedrooms, and we can't all congregate in a bedroom all the time. Plus the
cost of electricity in this town is en route to the stars - it already went
to the moon years ago.




I can certainly sympathize with that - our electric bill last month was
almost $700!! Of course we could cut that down a *lot* if Ben could
stand the heat a bit more. As it is I have to put the electric blanket
on to keep warm. Ironically, my bedroom, being on the first floor,
keeps it cooler than his "territory" upstairs. I can feel a marked
difference whenever I go up there.

--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, created by "Yowie", maintained by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.net/rpcablog/

Email: L(dot)T(dot)Crews(at)comcast(dot)net