Best way to keep us all cool?

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:01:04 -0500, "Pat"
wrote:

I hope someone with a brain for physics can explain to me how to maximize
cooling of this non-air-conditioned house. It's been super hot here lately
and the cats, the hoomins and the bunny wabbit are all suffering. But maybe
we are doing something wrong....

Early in the morning we close up the thermal windows and doors against the
heat. This usually keeps the indoor temp about 20 degrees cooler than
outdoors until the middle to late afternoon. As the day wears on, the temp
differential shrinks until finally around 9 PM it is equal and that's when
we open all the windows and doors to let the house cool down during the
night.

Except lately the house isn't cooling down enough during the night for it to
be pleasant inside the next day. It was still 80 degrees inside at 7 AM
today. Normally it's at least down to 75. The outdoor temp is going down
lower than that most nights. Right now, at 10 PM, it's 87 in here.

Tonight I want to do something to change the situation, if possible. If I
can figure out what it will take.

There is a 2'x3' hole in the floor in the center of the house, where a floor
furnace used to be. As of now, there is a metal grate sitting in that hole
and it lets cool air from the basement come up. There's a window fan in the
upper sash of one window sucking air out, which helps to pull the cooler air
up from the basement (door to the outside is open down there). When I stand
on the grate, I can feel the cool air coming up.

I've also got 4 ceiling fans running at top speed. I noticed while cleaning
them yesterday that each one has a switch that can be used to make it turn
in the opposite direction. I don't know which way the fans *should* be
turning to help cool down the house at night, but I know that when one is
turning counter-clockwise, it produces more of a "breeze" on my body if I
stand under it.

Would it help if I put a box fan on top of the floor grate, blowing upward?
Should the window fan be blowing in, rather than sucking out? If this was
your house, how would you arrange it? (don't tell me to install a/c; I can't
afford the appliance OR the extra electricity) (and no, I am not in a place
where a swamp cooler would do any good)

Thanks in advance for any advice. And BTW I wear wet clothes in the house,
even in bed at night. It is the only way I've managed to survive so far. But
I'd really like for the house to be cooler, for many reasons, not least of
which is I think this computer would last longer. Certainly the cats would
be more comfortable, and so would the bunny.

How hot is 'super hot'? I don't know where you live...

You're doing exactly what my mother taught me to do in the summer...
she still doesn't have an air-conditioner, and Melbourne summers
aren't exactly cool. If it gets too unbearably hot (ie. expected to be
over 40 Celsius), she goes to the local mall early in the morning and
spends most of the day in their free air-conditioning.

Close all the curtains in the morning as soon as the sun starts
hitting the windows and it'll help insulate the windows and keep more
heat out. We only have plastic blinds here and it's WAY less efficient
at cooling - if you don't have blackout/insulating curtains, get some
and put them up on the sunniest side of the house. Keep them closed
all day and open them up when the sun goes down. Have the windows open
all night long.

Mama put a couple of whirly birds in the roof and they made another
huge difference in cooling. They're temperature-operated so when the
air in the roofspace is hotter than the air outside they start
whirling it out. Before water was restricted, she'd go out and water
the garden every evening and spray the windows/roof to help start them
cooling off. There isn't any water to spare for that sort of thing
nowadays but it also made a difference.

Do you have insulation in your roof? If not, GET SOME! The more
insulation there is between you and the outside, the cooler the house
will stay. You're one-up on us by having ceiling fans - mama doesn't
have them either. She never used fans at all until I insisted that hot
moving air is more bearable than hot still air. I always had a small
desk fan beside my bed to blow directly onto me.

And turn off anything heat-producing that you can spare. Electronics
of all sort pump out tons of heat. Save the computer for the evenings.
And set up a cooling station for the animals - put a big block of ice
into their water dish and blow a fan in their direction. When our a/c
went out the cats spent most of their time under the bed or in the
bathtub...

On 7/12/2011 4:30 PM, hopitus wrote:
On Jul 12, 2:42 pm, wrote:
wrote in t...

jmcquown wrote:
I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here.
I didn't think your house was that big. I just thought I'd suggest it,
Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
clothes. Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

- - - - - - - -

Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. I think you could run several
ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much current
as an a/c. Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less efficient
than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large). If
it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one.
They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

MaryL

As someone who considers theirself a minor expert on a/c cost vs. fans
(why do you think
they named it the Sunshine State? Because it is *cool*? ) I said
nothing up to now but if
you want my input
MaryL is right on target about small a/c units (window units). Jill's
suggestion was very kind
but what would happen if you tried to cool entire large house (not
including basement) with
one (say 5000btu) instead of just a medium-size bedroom would be that
the unit would soon
burn itself out by 24/7 daily running, trying to cool area larger than
its capacity to do.
I had a central a/c unit in FL with vents in every room but only used
it when company came
over as I grew up when no one had a/c in homes and extreme sticky heat
doesn''t bother
me at all...

I don't know how we survived in New Orleans without A/C when I was
growing up. I do remember that the house had an "attic fan" - a very
large, built-in fan that drew hot air up out of the house and into the
attic (where we had the 'whirly-bird' type of vent). I remember it so
clearly because that's what caused the demise of our pet parakeet when
he got out of the cage once.

.but....a central unit has capacity to cool large house
area. OR...just one room.
Fans use *much* less power than any a/c unit; the power gobbler with a/
c is the *condenser*
its *cooling* mechanism. Once in awhile in FL I would turn on *just
the fan* on the central
unit, which circulated air and helped a little on scorching days
outside. What helped when
the unit needed repairs was my family there has friends who are a/c
mechanics and would
charge us only for parts needed.
Also, Lori is right about the shade trees; my FL house had large trees
hanging over it on
south side (house faced due east) and cooled *one side* of house from
worst heat of day:
early afternoon, south side.
No one I ever heard of, including me, ever had the notion of *hosing
down the outside walls*
of the house to cool the inside. Sounded nutty to me till I remembered
most FL home construction
is CBS, not wood nor brick (two materials bigtime expensive to haul
down to south FL.) You
could hose till doomsday on concrete walls with no result inside from
your effort.


--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, created by "Yowie", maintained by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.net/rpcablog/

Email: L(dot)T(dot)Crews(at)comcast(dot)net

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:47:22 -0500, CatNipped
wrote:

On 7/11/2011 10:39 PM, Yowie wrote:
In ,

In the future plant deciduous trees on the south and west facing walls,

One of the requirements I had when we were house hunting was that the
house be in a neighborhood that had lots and lots of trees - shade is
essential in this Houston heat! I can't understand why builders will
but acres of land for their tract housing and promptly cut down every
single tree in sight. I would not buy a house here that wasn't shaded
on all sides by dense, tall trees.

Pat, in lieu of trees it may help to use a tarp of something to create a
"roof" on the south and west side of the house to provide shade and
prevent the sun from shining directly on the house

you'll block out a lot of the heat from heating your out walls in summer,
but will enjoy the benefits of sunlight in winter. Another trick is to paint
your roof white and use as much insulation as you can in your roof cavity.

Yowie
(Aussies are great at keeping cool in summer. We have no idea about how to
keep warm in winter, though)

Oh yes. I just thought of something else low-cost that daddy did that
made a huge difference to the cooling. A lot of houses in Australia
have awnings on the windows. Mama didn't want anything permanent
because in winter we WANT the extra light. I'm not sure how he made it
work (it was a long time ago) but Daddy hung shadecloth awnings over
the back windows in the summertime, and they really helped to keep
their bedroom cool. All the other sides of the house had trees in
front of them (greenery is natures' insulation!) but the back was
two-stories and the window was right up there in thin air. Greenery is
the best insulation, but in lieu of it shadecloth will do a lot to
help and it's not very expensive. (Are you absolutely SURE you can't
plant alongside the house? I wouldn't want to live anywhere that
didn't at least have bushes and shrubs up against the walls...)

"Kajikit" wrote

How hot is 'super hot'? I don't know where you live...

100+ F., with "heat index" 7-10 degrees warmer. I'm not quite sure where I
live anymore... Feels like Cambodia or maybe Calcutta.

You're doing exactly what my mother taught me to do in the summer...
she still doesn't have an air-conditioner, and Melbourne summers
aren't exactly cool. If it gets too unbearably hot (ie. expected to be
over 40 Celsius), she goes to the local mall early in the morning and
spends most of the day in their free air-conditioning.

Close all the curtains in the morning as soon as the sun starts
hitting the windows and it'll help insulate the windows and keep more
heat out. We only have plastic blinds here and it's WAY less efficient
at cooling - if you don't have blackout/insulating curtains, get some
and put them up on the sunniest side of the house. Keep them closed
all day and open them up when the sun goes down.

I have thermal insulated windows with argon gas between panes, and the glass
is specially made to stop solar heat gain.

Mama put a couple of whirly birds in the roof and they made another
huge difference in cooling. They're temperature-operated so when the
air in the roofspace is hotter than the air outside they start
whirling it out.

I think I will get at least one of those. Eventually.

Do you have insulation in your roof?

Yes, quite a lot.

wrote in message ...

MaryL wrote:



wrote in message ...

jmcquown wrote:

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window
a/c
unit would do any good here.

I didn't think your house was that big. I just thought I'd suggest it,
Pat.
I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in
wet
clothes. Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

Joyce

- - - - - - - -

Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. I think you could run several
ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much
current
as an a/c. Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less
efficient
than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large).
If
it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one.
They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

Which is more energy efficient? Non=portable fans? Why is that? All my fans
are portable. Why would they be less efficient than non-portable? For that
matter, what is a non-portable fan? Other than a ceiling fan, thatis.

Joyce
- - - - - - - - -

I did not mean to indicate that non-portable fans are more energy efficient
than portable fans. I was basing that statement on the fact that it is more
expensive and inconvenient to replace a ceiling fan than a portable fan (and
newer fans of either type are usually more efficient than older fans). No,
my basic comment about efficiency related to the difference between large
and small air conditioners. I probably wrote too quickly and did not
clearly distinguish between two comparisons.

MaryL

"CatNipped" wrote in message ...
Ironically, my bedroom, being on the first floor,
keeps it cooler than his "territory" upstairs. I can feel a marked
difference whenever I go up there.

--
Hugs,

CatNipped

- - - - - - - - - -

That is almost always true in multi-story houses because heat rises. Could
you and Ben trade bedrooms during hot weather? Would that help?

MaryL

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:18:58 -0500, "Pat"
wrote:


"Kajikit" wrote

How hot is 'super hot'? I don't know where you live...

100+ F., with "heat index" 7-10 degrees warmer. I'm not quite sure where I
live anymore... Feels like Cambodia or maybe Calcutta.

That's up there alright... my sympathies. Google tells me that 40C is
104. It's a relatively balmy 92 in South Florida, and that feels hot
enough to fry an egg on the pavement come midday!

When it's that hot, heat-conservation measures really aren't going to
work very well - there just aren't enough 'cool hours' in the night to
cancel out all of that daytime heating, and the warmer you start off,
the warmer it's going to be all day.

You're doing exactly what my mother taught me to do in the summer...
she still doesn't have an air-conditioner, and Melbourne summers
aren't exactly cool. If it gets too unbearably hot (ie. expected to be
over 40 Celsius), she goes to the local mall early in the morning and
spends most of the day in their free air-conditioning.

Close all the curtains in the morning as soon as the sun starts
hitting the windows and it'll help insulate the windows and keep more
heat out. We only have plastic blinds here and it's WAY less efficient
at cooling - if you don't have blackout/insulating curtains, get some
and put them up on the sunniest side of the house. Keep them closed
all day and open them up when the sun goes down.

I have thermal insulated windows with argon gas between panes, and the glass
is specially made to stop solar heat gain.

Well, if it's THAT hot, it couldn't hurt to have a curtain as well -
if you don't want anything permanent string up a sheet in front of the
window - anything to keep the sun from shining in.

Mama put a couple of whirly birds in the roof and they made another
huge difference in cooling. They're temperature-operated so when the
air in the roofspace is hotter than the air outside they start
whirling it out.

I think I will get at least one of those. Eventually.

They make a HUGE difference because they suck a lot of that hot air
out of the roofspace every night. Get one! It's not hard to put them
in and they're not very expensive.

On Jul 12, 3:42*pm, wrote:
MaryL wrote:
* wrote in t...
* jmcquown wrote:

* I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
* unit would do any good here.

* I didn't think your house was that big. *I just thought I'd suggest it,
* Pat.
* I'd rather pay a few extra bucks a month for electricity than sleep in wet
* clothes. *Running fans constantly can't exactly be inexpensive.

* You know, that brings up a good question - how *do* fans compare with a/c,
* in terms of energy consumption? I use fans at home, for a limited time,
* usually - at night when I'm trying to cool the house off. That takes maybe
* an hour or so (small apartment). I put one fan in each room, all of them
* pulling the cool air inward. Works great. Once the apartment is livable, I
* turn off all the fans except the one that's in the room I'm using.

* Joyce

* - - - - - - - -

* Fans take far less electricity than an a/c. *I think you could run several
* ceiling fans continuously *all the time* and not draw nearly as much current
* as an a/c. *Ironically, the small air conditioners are often less efficient
* than a large a/c (but will probably pull less current simply because they
* have less capacity--but may not be effective if the area is too large). *If
* it's a portable fan, it may be worth the cost of replacing with a new one.
* They are often very inexpensive but more energy efficient.

Which is more energy efficient? Non=portable fans? Why is that? All my fans
are portable. Why would they be less efficient than non-portable? For that
matter, what is a non-portable fan? Other than a ceiling fan, thatis.

Joyce
Same reason big fish swim faster than little ones.....bigger fins
moving more area.

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...
On 7/12/2011 11:51 AM, Pat wrote:
wrote

If you're not opposed to the idea, I'd be willing to chip in some money
to
buy a window air conditioning unit for your house. I seem to remember
we
did that for kilikini. I remember all too well what it was like living
in
a small apartment (35 years ago) in the Tennessee heat without A/C. I
couldn't sleep it was so hot. As we get older we don't deal with the
heat
as well and neither do our furry friends. I cannot imagine wearing wet
clothes to bed.

I'd be willing to pitch in $15. I found a window unit online from Home
Depot for $99. I think the highest price I found was $200. Anyone else
willing to chip in some money to cool Pat and her critters off?

I sure appreciate the thought, Jill, but I don't think a small window a/c
unit would do any good here. The main central part of the house is much
too
big for a small unit to cool. That would leave putting it in one of the
bedrooms, and we can't all congregate in a bedroom all the time. Plus the
cost of electricity in this town is en route to the stars - it already
went
to the moon years ago.

I can certainly sympathize with that - our electric bill last month was
almost $700!! Of course we could cut that down a *lot* if Ben could stand
the heat a bit more. As it is I have to put the electric blanket on to
keep warm. Ironically, my bedroom, being on the first floor, keeps it
cooler than his "territory" upstairs. I can feel a marked difference
whenever I go up there.

--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

I don't tolerate heat well at all but hey, I'm stuck in the south. When
John visits he just piles the quilts up on his side of the bed and I kick
off the blanket I was under the impression Pat lives in a small house.
I figured a single A/C unit would at least do more cooling than running all
those fans and wearing wet clothing to bed.

Jill

MaryL wrote:

Which is more energy efficient? Non=portable fans? Why is that? All my fans
are portable. Why would they be less efficient than non-portable? For that
matter, what is a non-portable fan? Other than a ceiling fan, thatis.

I did not mean to indicate that non-portable fans are more energy efficient
than portable fans. I was basing that statement on the fact that it is more
expensive and inconvenient to replace a ceiling fan than a portable fan (and
newer fans of either type are usually more efficient than older fans). No,
my basic comment about efficiency related to the difference between large
and small air conditioners. I probably wrote too quickly and did not
clearly distinguish between two comparisons.

OK, thanks, that makes more sense. And I'm glad to hear it, too. I'm lucky
because I live in a part of the country that's referred to as "semi-arid"
(although that description didn't seem very appropriate this past spring
with all the rain we got!). What it does mean is that no matter how hot it
gets during the day, it almost always cools down considerably at night. This
area also has a coastal maritime climate which means that fog comes in on a
regular basis, and that brings cold air. Summer in the San Francisco area
often means hot during the day and pretty cool at night. Unfortunately that
doesn't apply to Pat, so my solution for cooling down the apartment at night
wouldn't work for her.

I also have a small window a/c, but I hardly ever use it. I haven't used
it for about 4 or 5 years. But back in 1999, I was working at home part-
time, and I wanted to be comfortable while working. So the a/c is meant to
cool only one room (my computer room), and it's a very small room, so when
I worked in there on very hot days, I'd close the door and run the a/c. On
milder days, I didn't use it because it's really not necessary.

That first year I lived in this apartment ('99) was exceptionally hot for
this area - we had strings of days where the temp went over 100 F (heh, I
guess the "F" wasn't really necessary ). Over the past few years, summers
have been quite a bit cooler, with most days being mild to cool, and even
the heat waves were shorter-lasting and not as hot. So no need for a/c at
all.

BTW, the a/c is not permanently installed in the window. Most of the time,
it sits on a short cart right next to the window and functions as a seat
from which the cats can look out of the window. The reason for this is that
on the vast majority of days, if I need any cooling machine at all, it's a
fan. Also, I don't want sunlight blocked for most of the year for the one
or two days I might want to turn the a/c on. If a heat wave strikes, I
just put it in the window and stuff any openings with foam, including along
the top and bottom of the a/c. That may not be as efficient as a proper
installation, but for my needs, I think it works OK. If I had it installed,
I would probably be tempted to use it on days when all I really need is a
fan.

Question: if I were to use it now, would it be safe in terms of mold or
other stagnant-water borne nasties? As I said, it's been sitting there
unused for several years, and I know it's had water in there for some of
that time. Does it need to be serviced so the inside can get cleaned out?
I've never had it cleaned in the 12 years I've owned it.

Joyce

--
Cats' hearing apparatus is built to allow the human voice to easily
go in one ear and out the other. -- Stephen Baker