"Tutorial" guidance required for reading cat food labels - please help, anyone

From: "Cheryl"

Also, Lauren, good tip about the egg shells. Do you wash them first?
(probably a stupid question).

Yes, I do wash them first, then let them air dry for a few days. However, I
would recommend using organic eggs because some eggs are sprayed with mineral
oil.
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

PawsForThought wrote:

From: "Cheryl"


Also, Lauren, good tip about the egg shells. Do you wash them first?
(probably a stupid question).


Yes, I do wash them first, then let them air dry for a few days. However, I
would recommend using organic eggs because some eggs are sprayed with mineral
oil.

Wow, I did not know that. Do you know why?

________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

PawsForThought wrote:

From: "Cheryl"


Also, Lauren, good tip about the egg shells. Do you wash them first?
(probably a stupid question).


Yes, I do wash them first, then let them air dry for a few days. However, I
would recommend using organic eggs because some eggs are sprayed with mineral
oil.

Wow, I did not know that. Do you know why?

________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: "Karen M."

PawsForThought wrote:

From: "Cheryl"


Also, Lauren, good tip about the egg shells. Do you wash them first?
(probably a stupid question).


Yes, I do wash them first, then let them air dry for a few days. However,
I
would recommend using organic eggs because some eggs are sprayed with
mineral
oil.

Wow, I did not know that. Do you know why?

Apparently, all eggs are washed before being sent to market. Since eggshells
are porous, mineral oil is used to preserve shelf life and protect them. If
you wash the eggs before grinding, that is fine. You can use warm water or one
of those washes from a health food store for fruits and vegetables. I get my
eggs from either a local farmer or I've been buying organic ones. I'm going to
check with the organic company and see whether or not they use mineral oil.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

From: "Karen M."

PawsForThought wrote:

From: "Cheryl"


Also, Lauren, good tip about the egg shells. Do you wash them first?
(probably a stupid question).


Yes, I do wash them first, then let them air dry for a few days. However,
I
would recommend using organic eggs because some eggs are sprayed with
mineral
oil.

Wow, I did not know that. Do you know why?

Apparently, all eggs are washed before being sent to market. Since eggshells
are porous, mineral oil is used to preserve shelf life and protect them. If
you wash the eggs before grinding, that is fine. You can use warm water or one
of those washes from a health food store for fruits and vegetables. I get my
eggs from either a local farmer or I've been buying organic ones. I'm going to
check with the organic company and see whether or not they use mineral oil.

Lauren
________
See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe
Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html
http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html
Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm

HI!

I had a really busy week, but finally managed to get the time to check
back in and i have to say THANK YOU for straightening me out on the
calculation !

THank you thank you - i should have known something was wrong, because
suddenly all the things i was checking out started looking like they
had not enough levels of magnesium and phosphorous.

[ snip detailed example on calculation , with thanks again ]


OK but correct me if I'm wrong, from what I've read. Giving a
chicken thigh alone would not be achieving the correct ratio
because the thigh is fleshier and not balanced.

I can't tell you it's not balanced because I'd need to do the
calculations I did above for both the bone and the meat on a dry
matter basis. My guess is a thigh is ok though. It's not ok when you
feed *only* meat, without bones or some other good source of calcium
such as milk, cheese, cream or yogurt.

ok gotcha


By this reasoning, just giving necks alone would also not be
achieving the correct ratio.

Probably would.

Here are the ingredients: ingredients snipped

Ingredients look good too, especially because two meat sources are
listed first. I am not against grains, I am against excessive
carbohydrates and I don't care if they are in the form of grains,
fruits, vegetables or whatever. This is one of the reasons I feel
feeding only dry is not good. Dry has too much carbs (mostly in the
form of grains) and too little water. It´s important to calculate
canned food nutrients on a dry matter basis because they can put a lot
of carbs in there and you don´t see it unless you do the math.
Personally, I prefer canned foods without carbs.


Nod nod. Personally, I think dry is only advantageous to us feeders
really - it's convenient, it's easy to store and easier to clean up.
And then there's the notion that dry produces less stinky poo poo -
i'm not sure that's always true, but everyone I talk to thinks that.

My other question is (generally) - WHY don't manufacturers just
say how many carbs are in their pet foods? it seems to be the
only food group they leave out.

Some do. I wish they all did.

What would you consider a high ash content?

I don't look at the total amount of ash but what the ash is composed
of and how it is balanced. You can make a food with very little ash,
say 1% ash. But if that ash is only a copper salt, this food would be
toxic. I found a site listing the ash content of many different
animals. The ones that cats prey on have an ash content ranging from
9% to 15%. So perhaps anything above 15% is too much considering the
cat's natural diet. The biggest problem I see with properly balanced
ash (minerals), is not the ash itself, but how much water the cat
drinks. Too much ash and too little water will definitively result in
uroliths.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

This article didn't work when I tried it.


Thanks - my cat hated the sample of that semi-moist food.
I tried to trick her into eating it by putting it in with
the B2B dry but she actually picked out every semi-moist
nugget and left it on the floor.

Smart cat!

But i have a weird cat, compared to those of my friends.
She LOOVES raw meat?

I personally find that a cat that does not love raw meat is weird and
not the other way around.


Well YES , .. see, what's so strange about that, right? I mean, even
with the arguements about bacteria, etc, its not that strange that a
cat would like raw meat. Whether or not you think it's the best thing
for the cat is a seperate issue - I'm just talking about the fact that
she loves it here. But my colleagues and fellow cat chatters who feed
science diet, IAMS, avoderm, whatever, think she's completely weird.

When I get the prota pak out, she makes this little "rrrrrr" sound and
dashes for the bowl, it's quite frightening sometimes LOL, I'm afraid
on days when I run out and have to feed her my backup dry food
instead.

Liz, are you referring to a newsgroup or an email list?
Could you give me the email if its a email list?

Here are some:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawBC/...1?viscount=100
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rrboot-camp/
http://www.barfers.com/barflists.html
http://www.curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=37

Thanks for your reply.

Welcome!

Thanks! I will check these out very soon.

Thanks again - I'm sorry I took so long to reply.

HI!

I had a really busy week, but finally managed to get the time to check
back in and i have to say THANK YOU for straightening me out on the
calculation !

THank you thank you - i should have known something was wrong, because
suddenly all the things i was checking out started looking like they
had not enough levels of magnesium and phosphorous.

[ snip detailed example on calculation , with thanks again ]


OK but correct me if I'm wrong, from what I've read. Giving a
chicken thigh alone would not be achieving the correct ratio
because the thigh is fleshier and not balanced.

I can't tell you it's not balanced because I'd need to do the
calculations I did above for both the bone and the meat on a dry
matter basis. My guess is a thigh is ok though. It's not ok when you
feed *only* meat, without bones or some other good source of calcium
such as milk, cheese, cream or yogurt.

ok gotcha


By this reasoning, just giving necks alone would also not be
achieving the correct ratio.

Probably would.

Here are the ingredients: ingredients snipped

Ingredients look good too, especially because two meat sources are
listed first. I am not against grains, I am against excessive
carbohydrates and I don't care if they are in the form of grains,
fruits, vegetables or whatever. This is one of the reasons I feel
feeding only dry is not good. Dry has too much carbs (mostly in the
form of grains) and too little water. It´s important to calculate
canned food nutrients on a dry matter basis because they can put a lot
of carbs in there and you don´t see it unless you do the math.
Personally, I prefer canned foods without carbs.


Nod nod. Personally, I think dry is only advantageous to us feeders
really - it's convenient, it's easy to store and easier to clean up.
And then there's the notion that dry produces less stinky poo poo -
i'm not sure that's always true, but everyone I talk to thinks that.

My other question is (generally) - WHY don't manufacturers just
say how many carbs are in their pet foods? it seems to be the
only food group they leave out.

Some do. I wish they all did.

What would you consider a high ash content?

I don't look at the total amount of ash but what the ash is composed
of and how it is balanced. You can make a food with very little ash,
say 1% ash. But if that ash is only a copper salt, this food would be
toxic. I found a site listing the ash content of many different
animals. The ones that cats prey on have an ash content ranging from
9% to 15%. So perhaps anything above 15% is too much considering the
cat's natural diet. The biggest problem I see with properly balanced
ash (minerals), is not the ash itself, but how much water the cat
drinks. Too much ash and too little water will definitively result in
uroliths.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

This article didn't work when I tried it.


Thanks - my cat hated the sample of that semi-moist food.
I tried to trick her into eating it by putting it in with
the B2B dry but she actually picked out every semi-moist
nugget and left it on the floor.

Smart cat!

But i have a weird cat, compared to those of my friends.
She LOOVES raw meat?

I personally find that a cat that does not love raw meat is weird and
not the other way around.


Well YES , .. see, what's so strange about that, right? I mean, even
with the arguements about bacteria, etc, its not that strange that a
cat would like raw meat. Whether or not you think it's the best thing
for the cat is a seperate issue - I'm just talking about the fact that
she loves it here. But my colleagues and fellow cat chatters who feed
science diet, IAMS, avoderm, whatever, think she's completely weird.

When I get the prota pak out, she makes this little "rrrrrr" sound and
dashes for the bowl, it's quite frightening sometimes LOL, I'm afraid
on days when I run out and have to feed her my backup dry food
instead.

Liz, are you referring to a newsgroup or an email list?
Could you give me the email if its a email list?

Here are some:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawBC/...1?viscount=100
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rrboot-camp/
http://www.barfers.com/barflists.html
http://www.curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=37

Thanks for your reply.

Welcome!

Thanks! I will check these out very soon.

Thanks again - I'm sorry I took so long to reply.