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#1
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Waaah, help me, please.
We've now had Marbles 2 weeks. He's a darling, sweet kitty that purrs all the
time, potties where he's supposed to, doesn't have any horrible habits but...my original kitties, Scottie and Abbey, are horrified of him. We kept Marbles confined to two rooms for about 4 days when we first got him. Scottie and Abbey did not seem to mind that there was another cat in the house. There was no hissing at the door or paws under the door or any major interest shown by any of the concerned parties. So, on the 4th day, we put a baby gate up on his door. This has been what we have done in the past. Well, about 2 minutes later, he jumped it and was out in the rest of the house so end of that plan. For the next several days, we let him be out with them except when we were at work or asleep (which is the majority of the time except on weekends). A few times, they all laid close to each other in the family room and once he and Scottie ate some grass about a foot apart. But, mostly, there is posturing by both Scottie and Marbles and twice there has been a shrieking cat fight with minimal contact. Abbey mostly hisses at Marbles. But on Sunday, inadvertently, Marbles somehow chased Scottie and Abbey back into the 2 rooms and there they have remained for 4 days now. They hide under the bed and only come out if the door is shut and he is locked out. So, once again, while we are at work or asleep, they are locked in and when we are home and awake, we let Marbles in. He will lay under the bed with them and nothing happens, no growling or hissing. He will lay about a foot away from them. If they happen to be out from under the bed when he comes into the 2 rooms, the posturing begins, primarily on his part, directed at Scottie. Scottie holds his ground for a few minutes and then bolts under the bed with Marbles chasing him. This is making me ill. I feel so bad for Scottie and Abbey to be prisoners in their own home while he has free rein. I'm sure they're miserable. Once we shut him out at night, they get in bed with us and act semi-normal but they seem to be horrified of him. He is smaller than both of them. They are all neutered/spayed and have been that way since they were youngsters. Scottie is 7, Marbles is 6, Abbey is 3. Marbles is from a six cat family where he supposedly got along wonderfully with the other 5 cats (I have emailed his former mom and this is what she tells me). Scottie has lived with 4 other cats during the time we've had him and Abbey has lived with 3 others. It was not all lovey-dovey with them all but there was no fighting, just ignoring of the others and an occasional hissing or swatting incident. Will this ever resolve? I have 2 Feliway diffusers at each end of the house so everyone is getting a whiff of that. One has been in place for almost a week, the other for about 4 days. I know it can take awhile to work but I also know it doesn't always work. I sincerely fear that Scottie and Abbey will never, ever come out if he is in the room with them. I am afraid to just let him have free run because I'm afraid they will freak out and start pottying under the bed and quit eating and we all know that it is very bad when cats quit eating. Therefore, I lock him out those times when we are not around so they can eat and relax and potty. Tony thinks we should not close any doors anymore and let them work it out but, as I said, I'm afraid Scottie and Abbey will never come out, will become more neurotic, and wind up miserable, unhappy cats. Scottie is a former feral and so is quite sensitive but since he's always gotten along with our other cats, I never thought this would happen or I would not have gotten another cat. Some of my friends and my mom (who is 2,000 miles away) think I owe my first loyalty to Scottie and Abbey and should return Marbles. He is from a no-kill rescue group who would take him back and then he would be back to life in a cage until someone else adopts him and he will have the stigma of not getting along with other cats on his adoption card. We love him now, too, and don't want to get rid of him. I would feel like a failure if I did that. I can't remember how long it has taken us to integrate other cats in the past; I know there were some rough times but this is seeming like it is worse and longer. I guess we should have gotten a kitten but I wanted to adopt an older cat since they are harder to place and we have integrated adult cats before. I feel Marbles is generally the aggressor and I don't understand why. We have no other room to lock Marbles into in order to get Scottie and Abbey out of these back rooms. We could do the bathroom but Marbles is a very vocal and loud cat so I know he would be howling if we put him in there and Scottie and Abbey would be too afraid to come out of those rooms then anyway. I think part of the problem is Marbles' vocalness. He walks around meowing much of the time and I think Scottie and Abbey interpret that as aggression even though he seems to do it all the time even when they're not around. The only time he is not excessively vocal is if he is laying under the bed with them or close by them. I think he wants to like them but can't stop showing aggression. Am I being unfair to S and A? Am I ruining their lives? Will this ever work out? Should I take him back? We would miss him and feel awful but is that the only solution? Does it absolutely have to work out in time or is it possible that we could fast forward 6 months and things would still be the same? Should we do as Tony wants and somehow drag S and A out from under the bed, toss them into the other part of the house, and prevent them from being able to get back under the bed and force the 3 of them to co-exist? Should we continue the separation? Should I give Marbles' time-outs whenever he aggresses toward them? Should I squirt him with a spray bottle when he begins to posture? Is it still within the bounds of normality that they are hostile or if it's still going on, does it mean it will never resolve? Would clomicalm help? I've read all the cat intro articles but no one gives a time frame or says what to do if it doesn't seem to be working. Right now, Marbles is sound asleep on top of the bed while S and A are underneath. Last night, Marbles and Scottie briefly laid on top of the bed together without incident. It seems that if Scottie is standing up or sitting up that Marbles then aggresses but if S is laying down, M is not aggressive. But poor Scottie, I would like for him to be able to stand and walk again in his own home. I think Abbey, who is very close to S, is following his lead. On her own, I don't think she would be quite as fearful. Can this family be saved? Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) |
#2
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"MacCandace" wrote in message ... We've now had Marbles 2 weeks. He's a darling, sweet kitty that purrs all the time, potties where he's supposed to, doesn't have any horrible habits but...my original kitties, Scottie and Abbey, are horrified of him. snip . Am I being unfair to S and A? Am I ruining their lives? Will this ever work out? Should I take him back? We would miss him and feel awful but is that the only solution? Does it absolutely have to work out in time or is it possible that we could fast forward 6 months and things would still be the same? Should we do as Tony wants and somehow drag S and A out from under the bed, toss them into the other part of the house, and prevent them from being able to get back under the bed and force the 3 of them to co-exist? Should we continue the separation? Should I give Marbles' time-outs whenever he aggresses toward them? Should I squirt him with a spray bottle when he begins to posture? Is it still within the bounds of normality that they are hostile or if it's still going on, does it mean it will never resolve? Would clomicalm help? Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) Candace, I think you need to start the process all over again by keeping the cats separate, and this time you need to take much *more* time before you permit Marbles to be in the same room with Scottie and Abbey. I took a full 6 weeks introducing Holly to Duffy. In that case, I knew Holly would be the aggressor because of a previous situation with her and my sister's cats, but you also now have a warning that the introduction will not go quickly for your cats. I *do not* agree with those who say you should return Marbles, but I do think you need to plan on some extra "steps" in the introduction. I kept Duffy in a separate room when I first adopted him. After a week, a friend located a damaged unfinished door. He cut a large square out of the bottom of the door and covered it with wire mesh (actually, it is the type of grill that is often mounted on the bottom of screen doors to protect them from damage - sturdy and smooth, with no rough edges). He temporarily replaced the bedroom door with the new screened door so that Holly and Duffy could get up-close without any danger to either of them. He removed the hardware (hinges and doorknob from the permanent door and mounted them on the temporary door, a process that was later reversed when we replaced the permanent door. This worked well, but an inexpensive screen door could be used for this same purpose. In fact, Megan has done this a number of times, and she spends less than $20.00 by buying a very cheap screen door and using the hardware from the permanent door for this purpose. This is a variation on your attempt to use a baby gate, but it would be much more secure. I spent a great deal of time in the room with Duffy during this time, but I was always careful to lavish lots of praise and affection on Holly whenever I exited the room - I didn't want her to feel neglected or displaced. I also left a radio on (tuned to classical or "easy listening" stations) when I left Duffy alone in the room. In addition, I would allocate some time each evening when I would place Holly in the computer room and let Duffy roam throughout the rest of the house. This gave Duffy an opportunity to become familiar with the house, but it also distributed his scent so that Holly would become used to it. My next step was to place tuna on two ends of a long platter and slip it under the door so the two cats could eat "together." The idea was to place a plate with special-treat food under the door (with food on each side of the door) so the cats would learn to associate something "good" with being in close proximity when they ate the treats. Eventually, I began to give Duffy the run of the house along with Holly, but only under close supervision. I gradually increased the amount of time the two were together and soon didn't need to supervise them. However, I did not leave them alone in the house. About five weeks into this process, I had a week of vacation. This was the ideal time to let them really get to know each other. Throughout the week, I gave them more and more time together - first all day, then both day and night. By the time we approached the sixth week, both cats had the full run of the house at all times, and then I began to leave the house for short periods of time (first only an hour at a time, then would go back to check on them). By the end of that week, they were together at all times. This very slow, gradual transition has really paid off. I adopted Duffy at the end of February 2003, and my two furbabies are now very comfortable together. I honestly do think you can work this out. People often try to make the transition much too quickly - especially when they have had success in the past and expect that each cat will react in the same way. You probably won't need to spend as much time as I described, but I do think you need to take some extra time to start the integration process all over again. I definitely would *not* try to "force" the cats to get together. This could be a nightmare in the making. Also, do not use the spray bottle, but do try to direct Marbles' attention elsewhere when he begins to act aggressive - use a wand with feathers on the end or a cord with a toy tied to it or possible a laser to get him to play instead of attacking one of your other cats. If you will look at some of the pictures in the first link under my signature, you can see some photos of the door I described (and also some pics of Holly and Duffy on different sides of the door). Good luck, Candace! I am sure this is a situation you can handle. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o' http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") |
#3
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"MacCandace" wrote in message ... We've now had Marbles 2 weeks. He's a darling, sweet kitty that purrs all the time, potties where he's supposed to, doesn't have any horrible habits but...my original kitties, Scottie and Abbey, are horrified of him. snip . Am I being unfair to S and A? Am I ruining their lives? Will this ever work out? Should I take him back? We would miss him and feel awful but is that the only solution? Does it absolutely have to work out in time or is it possible that we could fast forward 6 months and things would still be the same? Should we do as Tony wants and somehow drag S and A out from under the bed, toss them into the other part of the house, and prevent them from being able to get back under the bed and force the 3 of them to co-exist? Should we continue the separation? Should I give Marbles' time-outs whenever he aggresses toward them? Should I squirt him with a spray bottle when he begins to posture? Is it still within the bounds of normality that they are hostile or if it's still going on, does it mean it will never resolve? Would clomicalm help? Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) Candace, I think you need to start the process all over again by keeping the cats separate, and this time you need to take much *more* time before you permit Marbles to be in the same room with Scottie and Abbey. I took a full 6 weeks introducing Holly to Duffy. In that case, I knew Holly would be the aggressor because of a previous situation with her and my sister's cats, but you also now have a warning that the introduction will not go quickly for your cats. I *do not* agree with those who say you should return Marbles, but I do think you need to plan on some extra "steps" in the introduction. I kept Duffy in a separate room when I first adopted him. After a week, a friend located a damaged unfinished door. He cut a large square out of the bottom of the door and covered it with wire mesh (actually, it is the type of grill that is often mounted on the bottom of screen doors to protect them from damage - sturdy and smooth, with no rough edges). He temporarily replaced the bedroom door with the new screened door so that Holly and Duffy could get up-close without any danger to either of them. He removed the hardware (hinges and doorknob from the permanent door and mounted them on the temporary door, a process that was later reversed when we replaced the permanent door. This worked well, but an inexpensive screen door could be used for this same purpose. In fact, Megan has done this a number of times, and she spends less than $20.00 by buying a very cheap screen door and using the hardware from the permanent door for this purpose. This is a variation on your attempt to use a baby gate, but it would be much more secure. I spent a great deal of time in the room with Duffy during this time, but I was always careful to lavish lots of praise and affection on Holly whenever I exited the room - I didn't want her to feel neglected or displaced. I also left a radio on (tuned to classical or "easy listening" stations) when I left Duffy alone in the room. In addition, I would allocate some time each evening when I would place Holly in the computer room and let Duffy roam throughout the rest of the house. This gave Duffy an opportunity to become familiar with the house, but it also distributed his scent so that Holly would become used to it. My next step was to place tuna on two ends of a long platter and slip it under the door so the two cats could eat "together." The idea was to place a plate with special-treat food under the door (with food on each side of the door) so the cats would learn to associate something "good" with being in close proximity when they ate the treats. Eventually, I began to give Duffy the run of the house along with Holly, but only under close supervision. I gradually increased the amount of time the two were together and soon didn't need to supervise them. However, I did not leave them alone in the house. About five weeks into this process, I had a week of vacation. This was the ideal time to let them really get to know each other. Throughout the week, I gave them more and more time together - first all day, then both day and night. By the time we approached the sixth week, both cats had the full run of the house at all times, and then I began to leave the house for short periods of time (first only an hour at a time, then would go back to check on them). By the end of that week, they were together at all times. This very slow, gradual transition has really paid off. I adopted Duffy at the end of February 2003, and my two furbabies are now very comfortable together. I honestly do think you can work this out. People often try to make the transition much too quickly - especially when they have had success in the past and expect that each cat will react in the same way. You probably won't need to spend as much time as I described, but I do think you need to take some extra time to start the integration process all over again. I definitely would *not* try to "force" the cats to get together. This could be a nightmare in the making. Also, do not use the spray bottle, but do try to direct Marbles' attention elsewhere when he begins to act aggressive - use a wand with feathers on the end or a cord with a toy tied to it or possible a laser to get him to play instead of attacking one of your other cats. If you will look at some of the pictures in the first link under my signature, you can see some photos of the door I described (and also some pics of Holly and Duffy on different sides of the door). Good luck, Candace! I am sure this is a situation you can handle. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o' http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") |
#4
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Well, this may (eventually) help you to relax, a little....
Demelza was *petrified* of Herrie for a l-o-n-g time; she was absolutely _paranoid_ about him. Debbie was very wary of him & growled at him, but was a shade below paranoid. This was despite a long & controlled intro. Herrie was in this upstairs back bedroom/office/TV room for weeks, then in the dining room - which is shut off from the kitchen by a solid door & from the LR by French doors - after that for at least 2 more weeks. (Could've been a month). IOW - they could then see & hear him when he was in the DR, but no actual contact. Together, that must've been anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks - I honestly can't remember the exact length of time now, but it was a minimum of 2 weeks for each place he was sequestered during the intro. Then I bought a large crate & put him in it in the LR for an hour or so at a time, so they could all be in the same room, & touch if they wanted (Deb & Demelza did _not_ want to!). After each LR session, he was back in the DR, with the doors closed. Eventually I let Herrie out into the rest of the house - *if* I was at home, but it was pretty much a disaster. As I said, Debbie was scared & leery of him, but Demelza was absolutely petrified. She refused to be in the same room as him. If she accidentally came within a few feet of him, she'd jump up to the nearest windowsill or wherever, & pant like crazy - I was afraid she was going to hyperventilate. And when she was in that sort of state, she was too far over the edge to pay any attention to me, trying to sooth her. Only time, & Herrie out of her line of vision, would eventually calm her down. If I wasn't at home, then I put Herrie in this original room where he spent his first weeks, & also at night. Again, I can't now remember how long I felt it necessary to sequester him if I wasn't at home & during the night, but it was anywhere from several months to a year. All of this didn't bother him in the least - he would actually 'go to bed' in the carrier in which I originally brought him to the vet & then home to this room. He was relaxed & happy (unlike the other two), except for the fact that he obviously wanted to be friends w/ Debbie & Demelza, who didn't want any part of him, unfortunately. When he was in this room, then the other two would act their normal selves, also relaxed & happy. However, when he was allowed access to the rest of the house - when I was home & awake, Herrie eventually figured out that he could approach one of them & get a major reaction (rather like a sibling figures out that they can annoy the hell out of another sibling), so as time went on there were plenty of attacks, w/ fur literally flying. No blood that I know of - otoh, Debbie was LH as is Demelza - that may've helped! Eventually Debbie grew more tolerant of Herrie - within a year or so. She didn't actively *like* him, but it was reasonable. Demelza, otoh, was still not happy about his presence, at *all*. The day she finally ate, within sight of him, was a break-through. That was at _least_ a year after his intro - maybe 2. After 2 years the animosity on her part lessened somewhat, but there were still major fracases every day. 3 years after his intro, it became a bit better, with the occasional fracas - maybe one or two a day. (Him chasing her, just for the fun of it; her screeching her head off, even if he wasn't even touching her.) It's now been almost 5 years, & for the last couple of years she's been much more comfortable in his presence. She gets in surreptitious sniffs now & again, will sit next to him in the doorway to watch birds or squirrels out on the lawn, & will eat right next to him. No cuddling w/him, no mutual grooming, & no playing (on her part), but tolerance. The occasional scuffle, but generally calm compared to earlier years. I think the whole huge problem w/ Demelza is that when I adopted her, she immediately assumed queen position over Debbie - who was 7 years older & considerably bigger than Demelza. But Debbie was so laid back about it; she just let Demelza take over, & they became friends fairly quickly. So, when I adopted Herrie, I think Demelza saw him - whether or not it was actually true, just her own perception - as a threat to her place in the cat order of the house, & she just really couldn't handle it. She now tries to laud it over Herrie sometimes, but he seems to be top cat now - *just barely*; perhaps he realizes what an opponent Demelza is - how fiercely she's wanted to retain her position. It took years, but time eventually mellowed her out enough to live with him on an easy enough basis. So, IME, there's hope, but in the interim, the road may be very rocky. Cathy "MacCandace" wrote in message ... We've now had Marbles 2 weeks. He's a darling, sweet kitty that purrs all the time, potties where he's supposed to, doesn't have any horrible habits but...my original kitties, Scottie and Abbey, are horrified of him. We kept Marbles confined to two rooms for about 4 days when we first got him. Scottie and Abbey did not seem to mind that there was another cat in the house. There was no hissing at the door or paws under the door or any major interest shown by any of the concerned parties. So, on the 4th day, we put a baby gate up on his door. This has been what we have done in the past. Well, about 2 minutes later, he jumped it and was out in the rest of the house so end of that plan. For the next several days, we let him be out with them except when we were at work or asleep (which is the majority of the time except on weekends). A few times, they all laid close to each other in the family room and once he and Scottie ate some grass about a foot apart. But, mostly, there is posturing by both Scottie and Marbles and twice there has been a shrieking cat fight with minimal contact. Abbey mostly hisses at Marbles. But on Sunday, inadvertently, Marbles somehow chased Scottie and Abbey back into the 2 rooms and there they have remained for 4 days now. They hide under the bed and only come out if the door is shut and he is locked out. So, once again, while we are at work or asleep, they are locked in and when we are home and awake, we let Marbles in. He will lay under the bed with them and nothing happens, no growling or hissing. He will lay about a foot away from them. If they happen to be out from under the bed when he comes into the 2 rooms, the posturing begins, primarily on his part, directed at Scottie. Scottie holds his ground for a few minutes and then bolts under the bed with Marbles chasing him. This is making me ill. I feel so bad for Scottie and Abbey to be prisoners in their own home while he has free rein. I'm sure they're miserable. Once we shut him out at night, they get in bed with us and act semi-normal but they seem to be horrified of him. He is smaller than both of them. They are all neutered/spayed and have been that way since they were youngsters. Scottie is 7, Marbles is 6, Abbey is 3. Marbles is from a six cat family where he supposedly got along wonderfully with the other 5 cats (I have emailed his former mom and this is what she tells me). Scottie has lived with 4 other cats during the time we've had him and Abbey has lived with 3 others. It was not all lovey-dovey with them all but there was no fighting, just ignoring of the others and an occasional hissing or swatting incident. Will this ever resolve? I have 2 Feliway diffusers at each end of the house so everyone is getting a whiff of that. One has been in place for almost a week, the other for about 4 days. I know it can take awhile to work but I also know it doesn't always work. I sincerely fear that Scottie and Abbey will never, ever come out if he is in the room with them. I am afraid to just let him have free run because I'm afraid they will freak out and start pottying under the bed and quit eating and we all know that it is very bad when cats quit eating. Therefore, I lock him out those times when we are not around so they can eat and relax and potty. Tony thinks we should not close any doors anymore and let them work it out but, as I said, I'm afraid Scottie and Abbey will never come out, will become more neurotic, and wind up miserable, unhappy cats. Scottie is a former feral and so is quite sensitive but since he's always gotten along with our other cats, I never thought this would happen or I would not have gotten another cat. Some of my friends and my mom (who is 2,000 miles away) think I owe my first loyalty to Scottie and Abbey and should return Marbles. He is from a no-kill rescue group who would take him back and then he would be back to life in a cage until someone else adopts him and he will have the stigma of not getting along with other cats on his adoption card. We love him now, too, and don't want to get rid of him. I would feel like a failure if I did that. I can't remember how long it has taken us to integrate other cats in the past; I know there were some rough times but this is seeming like it is worse and longer. I guess we should have gotten a kitten but I wanted to adopt an older cat since they are harder to place and we have integrated adult cats before. I feel Marbles is generally the aggressor and I don't understand why. We have no other room to lock Marbles into in order to get Scottie and Abbey out of these back rooms. We could do the bathroom but Marbles is a very vocal and loud cat so I know he would be howling if we put him in there and Scottie and Abbey would be too afraid to come out of those rooms then anyway. I think part of the problem is Marbles' vocalness. He walks around meowing much of the time and I think Scottie and Abbey interpret that as aggression even though he seems to do it all the time even when they're not around. The only time he is not excessively vocal is if he is laying under the bed with them or close by them. I think he wants to like them but can't stop showing aggression. Am I being unfair to S and A? Am I ruining their lives? Will this ever work out? Should I take him back? We would miss him and feel awful but is that the only solution? Does it absolutely have to work out in time or is it possible that we could fast forward 6 months and things would still be the same? Should we do as Tony wants and somehow drag S and A out from under the bed, toss them into the other part of the house, and prevent them from being able to get back under the bed and force the 3 of them to co-exist? Should we continue the separation? Should I give Marbles' time-outs whenever he aggresses toward them? Should I squirt him with a spray bottle when he begins to posture? Is it still within the bounds of normality that they are hostile or if it's still going on, does it mean it will never resolve? Would clomicalm help? I've read all the cat intro articles but no one gives a time frame or says what to do if it doesn't seem to be working. Right now, Marbles is sound asleep on top of the bed while S and A are underneath. Last night, Marbles and Scottie briefly laid on top of the bed together without incident. It seems that if Scottie is standing up or sitting up that Marbles then aggresses but if S is laying down, M is not aggressive. But poor Scottie, I would like for him to be able to stand and walk again in his own home. I think Abbey, who is very close to S, is following his lead. On her own, I don't think she would be quite as fearful. Can this family be saved? Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) |
#5
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Well, this may (eventually) help you to relax, a little....
Demelza was *petrified* of Herrie for a l-o-n-g time; she was absolutely _paranoid_ about him. Debbie was very wary of him & growled at him, but was a shade below paranoid. This was despite a long & controlled intro. Herrie was in this upstairs back bedroom/office/TV room for weeks, then in the dining room - which is shut off from the kitchen by a solid door & from the LR by French doors - after that for at least 2 more weeks. (Could've been a month). IOW - they could then see & hear him when he was in the DR, but no actual contact. Together, that must've been anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks - I honestly can't remember the exact length of time now, but it was a minimum of 2 weeks for each place he was sequestered during the intro. Then I bought a large crate & put him in it in the LR for an hour or so at a time, so they could all be in the same room, & touch if they wanted (Deb & Demelza did _not_ want to!). After each LR session, he was back in the DR, with the doors closed. Eventually I let Herrie out into the rest of the house - *if* I was at home, but it was pretty much a disaster. As I said, Debbie was scared & leery of him, but Demelza was absolutely petrified. She refused to be in the same room as him. If she accidentally came within a few feet of him, she'd jump up to the nearest windowsill or wherever, & pant like crazy - I was afraid she was going to hyperventilate. And when she was in that sort of state, she was too far over the edge to pay any attention to me, trying to sooth her. Only time, & Herrie out of her line of vision, would eventually calm her down. If I wasn't at home, then I put Herrie in this original room where he spent his first weeks, & also at night. Again, I can't now remember how long I felt it necessary to sequester him if I wasn't at home & during the night, but it was anywhere from several months to a year. All of this didn't bother him in the least - he would actually 'go to bed' in the carrier in which I originally brought him to the vet & then home to this room. He was relaxed & happy (unlike the other two), except for the fact that he obviously wanted to be friends w/ Debbie & Demelza, who didn't want any part of him, unfortunately. When he was in this room, then the other two would act their normal selves, also relaxed & happy. However, when he was allowed access to the rest of the house - when I was home & awake, Herrie eventually figured out that he could approach one of them & get a major reaction (rather like a sibling figures out that they can annoy the hell out of another sibling), so as time went on there were plenty of attacks, w/ fur literally flying. No blood that I know of - otoh, Debbie was LH as is Demelza - that may've helped! Eventually Debbie grew more tolerant of Herrie - within a year or so. She didn't actively *like* him, but it was reasonable. Demelza, otoh, was still not happy about his presence, at *all*. The day she finally ate, within sight of him, was a break-through. That was at _least_ a year after his intro - maybe 2. After 2 years the animosity on her part lessened somewhat, but there were still major fracases every day. 3 years after his intro, it became a bit better, with the occasional fracas - maybe one or two a day. (Him chasing her, just for the fun of it; her screeching her head off, even if he wasn't even touching her.) It's now been almost 5 years, & for the last couple of years she's been much more comfortable in his presence. She gets in surreptitious sniffs now & again, will sit next to him in the doorway to watch birds or squirrels out on the lawn, & will eat right next to him. No cuddling w/him, no mutual grooming, & no playing (on her part), but tolerance. The occasional scuffle, but generally calm compared to earlier years. I think the whole huge problem w/ Demelza is that when I adopted her, she immediately assumed queen position over Debbie - who was 7 years older & considerably bigger than Demelza. But Debbie was so laid back about it; she just let Demelza take over, & they became friends fairly quickly. So, when I adopted Herrie, I think Demelza saw him - whether or not it was actually true, just her own perception - as a threat to her place in the cat order of the house, & she just really couldn't handle it. She now tries to laud it over Herrie sometimes, but he seems to be top cat now - *just barely*; perhaps he realizes what an opponent Demelza is - how fiercely she's wanted to retain her position. It took years, but time eventually mellowed her out enough to live with him on an easy enough basis. So, IME, there's hope, but in the interim, the road may be very rocky. Cathy "MacCandace" wrote in message ... We've now had Marbles 2 weeks. He's a darling, sweet kitty that purrs all the time, potties where he's supposed to, doesn't have any horrible habits but...my original kitties, Scottie and Abbey, are horrified of him. We kept Marbles confined to two rooms for about 4 days when we first got him. Scottie and Abbey did not seem to mind that there was another cat in the house. There was no hissing at the door or paws under the door or any major interest shown by any of the concerned parties. So, on the 4th day, we put a baby gate up on his door. This has been what we have done in the past. Well, about 2 minutes later, he jumped it and was out in the rest of the house so end of that plan. For the next several days, we let him be out with them except when we were at work or asleep (which is the majority of the time except on weekends). A few times, they all laid close to each other in the family room and once he and Scottie ate some grass about a foot apart. But, mostly, there is posturing by both Scottie and Marbles and twice there has been a shrieking cat fight with minimal contact. Abbey mostly hisses at Marbles. But on Sunday, inadvertently, Marbles somehow chased Scottie and Abbey back into the 2 rooms and there they have remained for 4 days now. They hide under the bed and only come out if the door is shut and he is locked out. So, once again, while we are at work or asleep, they are locked in and when we are home and awake, we let Marbles in. He will lay under the bed with them and nothing happens, no growling or hissing. He will lay about a foot away from them. If they happen to be out from under the bed when he comes into the 2 rooms, the posturing begins, primarily on his part, directed at Scottie. Scottie holds his ground for a few minutes and then bolts under the bed with Marbles chasing him. This is making me ill. I feel so bad for Scottie and Abbey to be prisoners in their own home while he has free rein. I'm sure they're miserable. Once we shut him out at night, they get in bed with us and act semi-normal but they seem to be horrified of him. He is smaller than both of them. They are all neutered/spayed and have been that way since they were youngsters. Scottie is 7, Marbles is 6, Abbey is 3. Marbles is from a six cat family where he supposedly got along wonderfully with the other 5 cats (I have emailed his former mom and this is what she tells me). Scottie has lived with 4 other cats during the time we've had him and Abbey has lived with 3 others. It was not all lovey-dovey with them all but there was no fighting, just ignoring of the others and an occasional hissing or swatting incident. Will this ever resolve? I have 2 Feliway diffusers at each end of the house so everyone is getting a whiff of that. One has been in place for almost a week, the other for about 4 days. I know it can take awhile to work but I also know it doesn't always work. I sincerely fear that Scottie and Abbey will never, ever come out if he is in the room with them. I am afraid to just let him have free run because I'm afraid they will freak out and start pottying under the bed and quit eating and we all know that it is very bad when cats quit eating. Therefore, I lock him out those times when we are not around so they can eat and relax and potty. Tony thinks we should not close any doors anymore and let them work it out but, as I said, I'm afraid Scottie and Abbey will never come out, will become more neurotic, and wind up miserable, unhappy cats. Scottie is a former feral and so is quite sensitive but since he's always gotten along with our other cats, I never thought this would happen or I would not have gotten another cat. Some of my friends and my mom (who is 2,000 miles away) think I owe my first loyalty to Scottie and Abbey and should return Marbles. He is from a no-kill rescue group who would take him back and then he would be back to life in a cage until someone else adopts him and he will have the stigma of not getting along with other cats on his adoption card. We love him now, too, and don't want to get rid of him. I would feel like a failure if I did that. I can't remember how long it has taken us to integrate other cats in the past; I know there were some rough times but this is seeming like it is worse and longer. I guess we should have gotten a kitten but I wanted to adopt an older cat since they are harder to place and we have integrated adult cats before. I feel Marbles is generally the aggressor and I don't understand why. We have no other room to lock Marbles into in order to get Scottie and Abbey out of these back rooms. We could do the bathroom but Marbles is a very vocal and loud cat so I know he would be howling if we put him in there and Scottie and Abbey would be too afraid to come out of those rooms then anyway. I think part of the problem is Marbles' vocalness. He walks around meowing much of the time and I think Scottie and Abbey interpret that as aggression even though he seems to do it all the time even when they're not around. The only time he is not excessively vocal is if he is laying under the bed with them or close by them. I think he wants to like them but can't stop showing aggression. Am I being unfair to S and A? Am I ruining their lives? Will this ever work out? Should I take him back? We would miss him and feel awful but is that the only solution? Does it absolutely have to work out in time or is it possible that we could fast forward 6 months and things would still be the same? Should we do as Tony wants and somehow drag S and A out from under the bed, toss them into the other part of the house, and prevent them from being able to get back under the bed and force the 3 of them to co-exist? Should we continue the separation? Should I give Marbles' time-outs whenever he aggresses toward them? Should I squirt him with a spray bottle when he begins to posture? Is it still within the bounds of normality that they are hostile or if it's still going on, does it mean it will never resolve? Would clomicalm help? I've read all the cat intro articles but no one gives a time frame or says what to do if it doesn't seem to be working. Right now, Marbles is sound asleep on top of the bed while S and A are underneath. Last night, Marbles and Scottie briefly laid on top of the bed together without incident. It seems that if Scottie is standing up or sitting up that Marbles then aggresses but if S is laying down, M is not aggressive. But poor Scottie, I would like for him to be able to stand and walk again in his own home. I think Abbey, who is very close to S, is following his lead. On her own, I don't think she would be quite as fearful. Can this family be saved? Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) |
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I really think you should try the screen door approach that Mary suggests.
If they can see him, but not be threatened he can reach them, I would think they would become accustomed to him in a more positive non-threatening way. I did it with 3 baby gates separating Pearl from Sugar and Grant. The door would have worked much better and been handier. I didn't have them out together for at least 4 weeks. Then I would begin to have them out together, but when I was gone, alternated who was out in the rest of the place and who was in the bedroom (by now, Pearl could scale the baby gates, so that's why a screen door would have been handier). It may take awhile, but I say give it a try. |
#7
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I really think you should try the screen door approach that Mary suggests.
If they can see him, but not be threatened he can reach them, I would think they would become accustomed to him in a more positive non-threatening way. I did it with 3 baby gates separating Pearl from Sugar and Grant. The door would have worked much better and been handier. I didn't have them out together for at least 4 weeks. Then I would begin to have them out together, but when I was gone, alternated who was out in the rest of the place and who was in the bedroom (by now, Pearl could scale the baby gates, so that's why a screen door would have been handier). It may take awhile, but I say give it a try. |
#8
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It's not so bad, really. Although I felt just like you did when it was
happening and we talked about returning the new cat as well. Don't! You've desribed a lot of good progress in two weeks. They are working things out. The fights are about enforcing and defining the rules of living together. They are mid-process. In our case with two year and a half old females, it took five weeks. And at a month, much less two weeks, I was wringing my hands, feeling like it was a disaster and trying to convince myself that I didn't need to return the new cat and resign myself that the older cat was an only cat by choice. One week later, it was OK and almost a year later, they are literally best friends. |
#9
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It's not so bad, really. Although I felt just like you did when it was
happening and we talked about returning the new cat as well. Don't! You've desribed a lot of good progress in two weeks. They are working things out. The fights are about enforcing and defining the rules of living together. They are mid-process. In our case with two year and a half old females, it took five weeks. And at a month, much less two weeks, I was wringing my hands, feeling like it was a disaster and trying to convince myself that I didn't need to return the new cat and resign myself that the older cat was an only cat by choice. One week later, it was OK and almost a year later, they are literally best friends. |
#10
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