Gabby made a critical mistake today... please help...

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "Paul M. Cook" :

"cindys" wrote in message
...

"Paul M. Cook" wrote in message
news:7BhPi.4748$d2.1672@trnddc08...

I will never really understand the big attraction to kittens.
Everyone ants a kitten. OK, they are cute. They are also holy
terrors with more energy than they can use in a day, rarely
sleep, ruin your stuff, cut and scratch you and generally just
get into nothing but trouble. Now you know why mother cats kick
them out after about the 12th week.

To be honest, had I know what was involved before getting Gabby we
would have probably not kept her. Sad as that sounds.

But we desperately wished to find her a no-kill zone and that was not
happening. Therefore before we could find an option AND before we
found out she is lightning in a kitten-skin suit, we were already
hooked and loving her.

My youngest cat is about 16 months old now. I got her at age 6
months. She ruined about 1000.00 of my things, she turned my
hand into a toy and caused me many deep cuts. She terrorized
one of my older cats. She kept me awake all night long. She
almost got killed several times, including a fall from a high
tree.

She is just now starting to calm down. She seems to like human
touch more and more. She misses me when I am away and is the
first at the door when I come home. She bites less, she
scratches less. It's showing some promise but for a while there
I was considering making an oven mitt out of her ass.

She will outgrow the worst of it in a year or so. Really that's
all that will work. I always tell people this, get an older cat
especially if you are elderly or if you have children. Don't
engage her in rough play. If she gets rough, walk away. She
will make the connection to roughness and playtime being over.

That seems to be the general consensus. Let her outgrow it. Another
person told me to not wish away her "kitten-hood" and I agree. I do
not want her to NOT be a kitten, I just wish it was a little calmer
kitten.

Sorry, there's no such thing as a calm kitten unless they are critically
ill. Archer has a *broken leg* and, if he escapes me, dashes through the
house like greased lightning - even up and down the stairs and straight up
our 6 foot cat tree!

Hugs,

CatNipped


And whatever you do, keep her and your child apart. Never allow
them alone together unsupervised. And there is never too early
a time to teach children that cats are not toys and they must
not be handled roughly.

Done and done! I meant to add that in the original post too. The
children are NOT the problem, as in, they do not tease, poke, or pull
Gabby. My 20 month old has never liked playing with her because from
the beginning Gabby scratched and bit, so she was leery of being near
her. Now she'll grab one of Gabby's toys and toss it away from her.
Smart cookie!

The other children don't play or anything anymore with Gabby because
she goes overboard. So everyone knows we have to give Gabby some time.
When she calms down we'll go back to the physical.

-------
In defense of Lost, my understanding is that they weren't looking
to adopt a cat in the first place. They found Gabby as a stray,
and they decided to provide her with a home rather than taking
her to a shelter where she would be euthanized, which is
wonderful. But in general, I do agree with everything you said
above. I have had only two kittens in my life (one of whom was
Alex). All of my other cats were adopted as adults. Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Exactly, thanks Cindy.

I think what she did was quite wonderful. She did not know what
she was getting into but that is not a crime. I don't tend to mix
words or to dwell on what I think is obvious so I may come across
as a tad harsh. I hope that Lost hangs in there, goes the
distance and in the end is rewarded with a nice companion animal.
I just made the observation about kittens in general. People seem
so surprised when they don't act like little angels, because they
sure look like little angels. They are really overrated. I am
sure all of my mellow, happy and easy going guys were probably
somebody else's headache once because they were all adults when I
got them.

Don't worry. I knew exactly what you were on about.

Trust me, I know the feeling about evil thoughts like when little
Noel destroyed an irreplaceable clay Chinese cooking vessel that
was custom made. But they were just thoughts and I quickly came to
my senses as did Lost. My little cat girl tried my patience as
far as any woman I have ever been with.
The only difference is she is still with me. So they are worth
:it.

Exactly. Talk about evil... boy oh boy I thought some horrible stuff.
But it quickly vanished and now I just want to help her get along
before the rest of the family starts disliking her or worse, hating
her.

They are still hooked though, they just don't want to play anymore.

Thanks for the information, Paul. In the future IF we ever get another
cat it will be an older one. Although I doubt we'll get another cat at
all.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from Meghan Noecker :

(And to note for the record again, this was just a rant about
living comfortably with animals. I was not trying to be rude or
disparage what you said.)

LOL! Yep, I know where you're coming from. We ailurophiles can
be a pretty strident bunch when it comes to cats.

But you really *don't* want (or need) to change anything in your
family's lifestyle in order to keep Gabby - that's a ridiculous
notion - and you don't *have* to! Just remember two things... 1)
any animal in its infancy has to learn adult behavior -
playfulness is really a method of learning survival techniques and
socialization (this includes humans as well) and we all make
mistakes, it's how we learn what *not* to do; and 2) any sensate
organism can be trained with good behavior modification
techniques.

Exactly.

It takes some time, work, and lots of patience, but (just going by
reading your posts) it seems you're willing to take the time, do
the work, and you certainly have enough patience if you've put up
with Gabby for this long.

Well, like I just explained to Sherry, my spouse has just told me about
an hour ago that they were done. That maybe it was time to get rid of
Gabby.

I have pretty much put my foot down and said it is not going to happen.
They simply were not prepared (like they thought they were) to handle a
kitten. I think what you have illustrated here for us is going to be
beneficial in changing their mind.

Either that or I am going to have to bash them over the head with
something because Gabby isn't going. Have I made that clear yet?
Haha!

I personally think that when things work out we are all going to be
thankful we stuck through it.

snip

Thanks for all of that helpful information, CatNipped.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from Meghan Noecker :

(And to note for the record again, this was just a rant about
living comfortably with animals. I was not trying to be rude or
disparage what you said.)

LOL! Yep, I know where you're coming from. We ailurophiles can
be a pretty strident bunch when it comes to cats.

But you really *don't* want (or need) to change anything in your
family's lifestyle in order to keep Gabby - that's a ridiculous
notion - and you don't *have* to! Just remember two things... 1)
any animal in its infancy has to learn adult behavior -
playfulness is really a method of learning survival techniques and
socialization (this includes humans as well) and we all make
mistakes, it's how we learn what *not* to do; and 2) any sensate
organism can be trained with good behavior modification
techniques.

Exactly.

It takes some time, work, and lots of patience, but (just going by
reading your posts) it seems you're willing to take the time, do
the work, and you certainly have enough patience if you've put up
with Gabby for this long.

Well, like I just explained to Sherry, my spouse has just told me about
an hour ago that they were done. That maybe it was time to get rid of
Gabby.

I have pretty much put my foot down and said it is not going to happen.
They simply were not prepared (like they thought they were) to handle a
kitten. I think what you have illustrated here for us is going to be
beneficial in changing their mind.

Either that or I am going to have to bash them over the head with
something because Gabby isn't going. Have I made that clear yet?
Haha!

I personally think that when things work out we are all going to be
thankful we stuck through it.

That is so true! When I lost my 17-year-old Bandit a few month ago, I felt
like someone ripped out a piece of my heart. When I remember her, I think
about her licking my face when I cried, coming over to let me hug her like a
teddy bear when I went to sleep, keeping me company and purring my pain away
when I was sick or hurt. I *don't* think about her terrorizing the entire
household when she was a kitten (if you read this story you'll get some idea
of what she was like as a kitten - and I promise you, there wasn't a whole
lot of exaggeration in the tale:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnip...t_Bad_Ass.asp).

My Sammy (AKA Samazon) is just now getting out of kitten-hood - here are
some tales of her depredations:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnipped/With_Mommy.asp.

Another gift nature gives us is the ability to forget pain (if not, I don't
think there's a woman alive who would have a second child if she could
really remember what labor felt like ;).

Hugs,

CatNipped


snip

Thanks for all of that helpful information, CatNipped.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response from "CatNipped" :

I personally think that when things work out we are all going to
be thankful we stuck through it.

That is so true! When I lost my 17-year-old Bandit a few month
ago, I felt like someone ripped out a piece of my heart. When I
remember her, I think about her licking my face when I cried,
coming over to let me hug her like a teddy bear when I went to
sleep, keeping me company and purring my pain away when I was sick
or hurt. I *don't* think about her terrorizing the entire
household when she was a kitten (if you read this story you'll get
some idea of what she was like as a kitten - and I promise you,
there wasn't a whole lot of exaggeration in the tale:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnip...t_Bad_Ass.asp).

Oh my, she definitely sounds like she was a handful. Although I
think she would be upset at one thing... you let the cat out of the
bag so to speak. If Sammy was able to chew on Bandit's tail and
Bandit didn't beat her for it, then maybe Bandit had a LITTLE TINY
BIT of softness to her? : )

My Sammy (AKA Samazon) is just now getting out of kitten-hood -
here are some tales of her depredations:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnipped/With_Mommy.asp.

Wow. I only had time to read the make-up story, but I am definitely
going to make time to read more.

I swear the entire time I was reading the 2nd story I kept thinking
to myself how this would make a very fun and endearing play. I would
definitely pay for a ticket to act that good!

Although if you do ever make it a play I want to be a producer!

Thanks for those heartwarming glimpses of your family, CatNipped. I
appreciate it.

Hehe... thanks to your pages I finally know what "DH" stands for.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response from "CatNipped" :

I personally think that when things work out we are all going to
be thankful we stuck through it.

That is so true! When I lost my 17-year-old Bandit a few month
ago, I felt like someone ripped out a piece of my heart. When I
remember her, I think about her licking my face when I cried,
coming over to let me hug her like a teddy bear when I went to
sleep, keeping me company and purring my pain away when I was sick
or hurt. I *don't* think about her terrorizing the entire
household when she was a kitten (if you read this story you'll get
some idea of what she was like as a kitten - and I promise you,
there wasn't a whole lot of exaggeration in the tale:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnip...t_Bad_Ass.asp).

Oh my, she definitely sounds like she was a handful. Although I
think she would be upset at one thing... you let the cat out of the
bag so to speak. If Sammy was able to chew on Bandit's tail and
Bandit didn't beat her for it, then maybe Bandit had a LITTLE TINY
BIT of softness to her? : )

Yep, but don't let on - her companions at the Rainbow Bridge would tease her
unmercifully if they new smiling tearfully.


My Sammy (AKA Samazon) is just now getting out of kitten-hood -
here are some tales of her depredations:
http://www.possibleplaces.com/catnipped/With_Mommy.asp.

Wow. I only had time to read the make-up story, but I am definitely
going to make time to read more.

I swear the entire time I was reading the 2nd story I kept thinking
to myself how this would make a very fun and endearing play. I would
definitely pay for a ticket to act that good!

I don't think anyone who has not had a kitten would believe a minute of it -
and anyone who has had a kitten has already lived through it! ;


Although if you do ever make it a play I want to be a producer!

Thanks for those heartwarming glimpses of your family, CatNipped. I
appreciate it.

You're welcome!


Hehe... thanks to your pages I finally know what "DH" stands for.

LOL! We forget sometimes that newbies to a group don't know all the
short-hand we use - sorry. [BTW, DH can also stand for dick head depending
on what he's done or not done lately! ;]

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Gabby is STILL pushing the limits. Today during their normal play I
could hear Pudge start to whimper as Gabby bit and clawed harder and
harder, nearer and nearer to Pudge's genitalia.

Almost at the exact moment I reached down to grab Gabby away, Pudge
bit her on the face.

3 things...

1. Pudge is the KINDEST, SWEETEST dog I have ever met or had the joy
to call my doggy daughter. She has NEVER done ANYTHING like that OR
even growled at ANYONE, including my youngest child who used to tug
on her quite forcefully. So I believe Pudge did what she did only
because it hurt too much.

2. Gabby is fine. It was not a vicious mauling or even a critical
snapping of the jaws. For "us" it would have been a nip to say back
off. For Gabby, whose head can fit inside Pudge's mouth it was, "Oh
****e, the mouth of Satan himself came gnashing at my soul!" Haha!

3. Pudge, I think having realized Gabby is just a baby made it a
point to walk over to her and give her the once over -- licking her
from head to toe.

How does Gabby repay Pudge for this kindness even after Gabby went
too far?

Back leg...
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?im...ntpudgelm8.jpg

Front leg...
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tpudge2ak1.jpg

Poor Pudge's Privates...
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?im...tpudge3lp2.jpg

I swear this cat is going to give someone a stroke.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

On Oct 12, 11:46 am, "-Lost" wrote:
snipped
See my question further down about Bosley and children.

I think cindy's suggestions soft paws is a good one. As your
kitty ages, he
may settle down. But if you exhaust your possibilities, and you
still feel that the kitty is a danger to your child, you might
consider re- homing
him to a quieter household. (Children would agitate Bosley
horribly).

In general he would be bothered by children? Or just problematic
children?

Bosley is bothered by people of any size who move suddenly, or are
loud,
or who touch him uninvited. He weighs over 20 pounds and usually goes
for the face. He just gets overstimulated easily. Even when I'm
petting him, he sends "signals" (ears back, or tail thumping)...that
he's had enough. If I don't stop, he attacks me. He's just a weird
cat.
If I know we are having company, I lock him in the bedroom. He would
*never* be suitable in a home with children. Remember though, that
your
cat sounds like he's just very hyper and playful, not so much
aggressive
like Bosley is.
I like your resolve, though. I hope things work out.
As a farm kid with dozens of pets of all species, I was scratched,
bitten,
kicked, thrown to the ground, and flogged lots of times. I still
remember
what my mother *invariably* said when I went bawling and tattling to
her:
"Well, what did *you* do to him/her/it?"

Sherry

I am trying to get a good understanding here because I thought it would
have to be a bothersome child or whatnot. In this scenario though it
is just a really hyper Gabby.

Good luck. BTW, there is a product over-the-counter called
"Scarzone" that
helps small scarring disappear. I've used it on cat scratches and
it seems
to help.

Thank you very much, Sherry. I will check it out.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text -

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Gabby is STILL pushing the limits. Today during their normal play I
could hear Pudge start to whimper as Gabby bit and clawed harder and
harder, nearer and nearer to Pudge's genitalia.

Almost at the exact moment I reached down to grab Gabby away, Pudge
bit her on the face.

3 things...

1. Pudge is the KINDEST, SWEETEST dog I have ever met or had the joy
to call my doggy daughter. She has NEVER done ANYTHING like that OR
even growled at ANYONE, including my youngest child who used to tug
on her quite forcefully. So I believe Pudge did what she did only
because it hurt too much.

2. Gabby is fine. It was not a vicious mauling or even a critical
snapping of the jaws. For "us" it would have been a nip to say back
off. For Gabby, whose head can fit inside Pudge's mouth it was, "Oh
****e, the mouth of Satan himself came gnashing at my soul!" Haha!

3. Pudge, I think having realized Gabby is just a baby made it a
point to walk over to her and give her the once over -- licking her
from head to toe.

How does Gabby repay Pudge for this kindness even after Gabby went
too far?

Back leg...
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?im...ntpudgelm8.jpg

Front leg...
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tpudge2ak1.jpg

Poor Pudge's Privates...
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?im...tpudge3lp2.jpg

I swear this cat is going to give someone a stroke.

LOL! Sorry, I know this is hard for you, but a picture of a tiny kitten
taking on a large dog - and *winning* is just too funny. I first got my
friend (a former dog owner) hooked on cats when a mother cat I was fostering
had kittens in my closet. I was showing them to her when mamma cat was out
getting a bite to eat. My large, friendly cocker spaniel took the
opportunity to come into my room to see what all the fuss was about. My
friend had the tiny bitties on the floor in front of her - they were about
maybe a week old and could barely stand, their eyes were still sealed shut -
but they heard and smelled the dog. *ALL* of those blind, helpless little
kittens stood with their backs arched, their fur all standing out on end and
hissing their little brains out at this monster who was about 100 times
their size - the monster retreated rather quickly. My friend was so amazed
at their courage (I didn't tell her it was kitten stupidity), and the "never
give up, never say die, fight to the death" attitude, she immediately put
dibs on adopting one of them.

Your pictures just reminded me of this. If you ever watch Animal Planet
you'll see kittens attacking their dog friends all the time. Did Pudge have
any actual scratches or bite marks on her? It would be very odd for a
kitten that small to do any real damage to a much larger dog. Some dogs
whine when they are in an unfamiliar situation and don't know what to do.
If Pudge has never been around kittens before she may not know how to play
with Gabby, and may feel uncomfortable at first. I think once they get to
know each other better they'll have a lot more fun (unless Pudge is a very
old dog) - puppies play even rougher than kittens, so I'm sure it's not a
case of Pudge being hurt. And as you stated, she does have her own
defenses. As long as Pudge isn't viscious I wouldn't worry about it -
they'll work it out. You may find that in a year's time that they've become
the best of friends.

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response from Sherry :

In general he would be bothered by children? Or just problematic
children?

Bosley is bothered by people of any size who move suddenly, or are
loud,
or who touch him uninvited. He weighs over 20 pounds and usually
goes for the face. He just gets overstimulated easily. Even when
I'm petting him, he sends "signals" (ears back, or tail
thumping)...that he's had enough. If I don't stop, he attacks me.
He's just a weird cat.

Ah, OK. And I knew the general tail THUMPING part, but I wonder, is
tail wagging in cats always indicative of poor mood or becoming
upset?

Mike Rowe on Dirty Jobs (on Discovery Channel) asked a groomer what
it meant that the cat was wagging his tail. The groomer said he was
angry. Is it that simple or is it a particular type of wagging?
Like thumping...

If I know we are having company, I lock him in the bedroom. He
would *never* be suitable in a home with children. Remember
though, that your
cat sounds like he's just very hyper and playful, not so much
aggressive
like Bosley is.

Oh yeah, Gabby is only playing as far as I can tell. She DOES get
worked up easily though. For example she DOES NOT fall for that just
ignore it routine. If you pull your hand or arm away, she pounces on
you. If you ignore her she just gets rougher and rougher until you
have to scream out in pain or yank your hand away or toss her away.

I like your resolve, though. I hope things work out.

Thanks.

As a farm kid with dozens of pets of all species, I was scratched,
bitten,
kicked, thrown to the ground, and flogged lots of times. I still
remember
what my mother *invariably* said when I went bawling and tattling
to her:
"Well, what did *you* do to him/her/it?"

I was a "farm kid" too and had to go through the same things. I
think I have been bitten by horses more times than anything to be
honest. But I can honestly say at about age six and beyond I stopped
being mean to animals. I only think I was before then because I
didn't know better.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response from "CatNipped" :

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Gabby is STILL pushing the limits. Today during their normal
play I could hear Pudge start to whimper as Gabby bit and clawed
harder and harder, nearer and nearer to Pudge's genitalia.

Almost at the exact moment I reached down to grab Gabby away,
Pudge bit her on the face.

3 things...

1. Pudge is the KINDEST, SWEETEST dog I have ever met or had the
joy to call my doggy daughter. She has NEVER done ANYTHING like
that OR even growled at ANYONE, including my youngest child who
used to tug on her quite forcefully. So I believe Pudge did what
she did only because it hurt too much.

2. Gabby is fine. It was not a vicious mauling or even a
critical snapping of the jaws. For "us" it would have been a nip
to say back off. For Gabby, whose head can fit inside Pudge's
mouth it was, "Oh ****e, the mouth of Satan himself came gnashing
at my soul!" Haha!

3. Pudge, I think having realized Gabby is just a baby made it a
point to walk over to her and give her the once over -- licking
her from head to toe.

How does Gabby repay Pudge for this kindness even after Gabby
went too far?

Back leg...
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?im...ntpudgelm8.jpg

Front leg...
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?i...tpudge2ak1.jpg

Poor Pudge's Privates...
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?im...tpudge3lp2.jpg

I swear this cat is going to give someone a stroke.

LOL! Sorry, I know this is hard for you, but a picture of a tiny
kitten taking on a large dog - and *winning* is just too funny.

Naaah, it cracks me up too. : )

snip

Your pictures just reminded me of this. If you ever watch Animal
Planet you'll see kittens attacking their dog friends all the
time. Did Pudge have any actual scratches or bite marks on her?

Actually, after the first genitalia bite I scoured Pudge's
underbelly and sure enough there were two TINY pinpricks so to
speak. Two itty-bitty drops of blood RIGHT BESIDE her genitalia.
My poor puppy. : |

It would be very odd for a kitten that small to do any real damage
to a much larger dog. Some dogs whine when they are in an
unfamiliar situation and don't know what to do. If Pudge has never
been around kittens before she may not know how to play with
Gabby, and may feel uncomfortable at first.

I thought so at first, but Pudge is actually the one who initiated
play with Gabby time and time again.

Demon on the other hand has NEVER wanted anything to do with her
really. Although they did have a bit of fun before Gabby started
biting too hard.

I think once they get to know each other better they'll have a
lot more fun (unless Pudge is a very old dog) - puppies play even
rougher than kittens, so I'm sure it's not a case of Pudge being
hurt.

Nope, Pudge and Demon both are barely 3 years old.

And beside what I told you about those couple drops of blood (I
couldn't even tell if they were bite or claw marks they were so small
and seriously DOTS), Pudge is just fine. I have roughhoused with her
10x worse than what Gabby did to her.

I think the worst part of it is being new to Gabby, liking her, and
then getting hurt (regardless of how severe) by her. She immediately
went and tended to Gabby afterward so there was no hard feelings.

And as you stated, she does have her own defenses. As
long as Pudge isn't viscious I wouldn't worry about it - they'll
work it out. You may find that in a year's time that they've
become the best of
friends.

Yeah, Pudge is the polar opposite of vicious. I used to call her
"pudding pup" is how laid back she is.

And now, as of about 10 minutes I made a startling revelation. And
it just goes to show me that when someone tells you something,
sometimes it helps to see for yourself.

See my new thread entitled "Gabby is a funny name for a boy." I am
sure you and everyone else will get a superb kick out of this one. :
)

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.