Cats and grains

"Toni" wrote in message
. ..

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

Toni" wrote in message
. ..


I disagree. Processed pet foods have done more to harm animals over the
last 60 or so years they have been available. Much is lost in the
manufacturing process, and sprayed on substitutes are inferior to real
whole food. Also


This is just not true. Pets used to live only 5 or 6 years when I was a
child. The manufactured food available then was nutritionally unsound
and basically contained only food scraps and "left-overs" (thinks pig
hooves and gristle) from processed human food. Other than that pets were
given table scraps (which, while good for humans was not good for pets'
nutritional needs)

*MILLIONS* of dollars have been spent over the years by pet food
manufacturers to improve the quality of pet food and as a result pets are
living much longer, healthier lives.



Is todays processed food better than that initially introduced after WWll?
Of course it is.

Now ask me if I think that todays processed food is better than a diet of
fresh whole foods?
No.
If it was we'd all be eating Total cereal exclusively.

The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the
same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In order
to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them
exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things they
eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they
would eat in nature. And you know what - cats in "nature" live an average
of 3 to 5 years and most of them look pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me.
The research done on pets' nutritionaly needs is almost as extensive (in the
US) as for humans' nutritional needs. I would still trust that the millions
of dollars spent on that research has found out more about this subject than
what I can guess at, so I'll stick to manufactured foods for my cats (who
are 16, 8, 7, and 2 and are and have always been healthy and active).


Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal
exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods?

There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and
packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating
yourself in reading labels.


People are always talking about "the good old days", but take it from us
geezers who are older than dirt, "the good old days" weren't nearly as
good as today!



I'll see your 'geezer' and raise you 10 years.
g

OK, do you remember when "cell phones" where bigger than your head???! ;
When I was a child we didn't even have cell phones - our land lines came
with rotary dials, telephone numbers where only 7 digits, and telephone
number prefixes where things like "Edgewood 1".

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/





--
Toni (older than dirt myself)
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

"CatNipped" wrote

The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the
same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In
order
to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them
exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things
they
eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they
would eat in nature.

Precisely.

[...]


Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal
exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods?

There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and
packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating
yourself in reading labels.


Yep. It is mostly chemistry. However--there is fairly recent evidence
(for humans, anyway--or is that lab rats?) that there are protective
properties in whole foods that make them worth more than the sum
of their parts, if that makes sense. Meaning that health benefits
in whole foods are seen that cannot be explained by the chemicals
they know are in the foods. (Here I am using "whole foods" as in,
the whole pear instead of just the stuff we know is in the pear,
taken in a vitamin tablet.) It suggests to me that there are still
substances in some whole foods that have not been identified and
are destroyed with processing/preserving.

This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh"
thing, but I think it is a component.



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"cybercat" wrote in message
...

"CatNipped" wrote

The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not*
the
same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In
order
to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them
exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things
they
eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as they
would eat in nature.

Precisely.

[...]


Do you think that a human would be as healthy eating Total cereal
exclusively as he would be eating fresh, whole foods?

There are both nutritionally sound foods and junk foods, both fresh and
packaged, available for all species! ; It's all a matter of educating
yourself in reading labels.


Yep. It is mostly chemistry. However--there is fairly recent evidence
(for humans, anyway--or is that lab rats?) that there are protective
properties in whole foods that make them worth more than the sum
of their parts, if that makes sense. Meaning that health benefits
in whole foods are seen that cannot be explained by the chemicals
they know are in the foods. (Here I am using "whole foods" as in,
the whole pear instead of just the stuff we know is in the pear,
taken in a vitamin tablet.) It suggests to me that there are still
substances in some whole foods that have not been identified and
are destroyed with processing/preserving.

This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh"
thing, but I think it is a component.


True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they could
live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life
span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times,
let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad
things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a
short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite or
because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/






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"CatNipped" wrote
This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh"
thing, but I think it is a component.


True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they
could
live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life
span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times,
let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad
things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a
short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite
or
because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history.

--

You bet--and my comment was definitely not in favor of the
"good old days" or "back to nature" argument. You are right,
we are better off than ever. Even with regard to things like
air quality--exhaust fumes from cars and the hole in the
ozone layer are nothing to "sneeze at" so to speak. But
many people do not seem to think about how awful it
was when people used coal and/or wood fires for heat,
especially before advances in filtration.



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"cybercat" wrote in message
...

"CatNipped" wrote
This may be a whole other issue than the "packaged" vs "fresh"
thing, but I think it is a component.


True, but always remember that when humans first determined what they
could
live on, and before farming much less manufactured food, the average life
span was 15 - 20 years! Again, those "let's get back to the good times,
let's do like our forebears did" proponents don't really realize how bad
things were back then - disease was rampant and the average human lived a
short, brutal life. We're living longer, healthier lives (either despite
or
because of our current eating habits) than ever before in history.

--

You bet--and my comment was definitely not in favor of the
"good old days" or "back to nature" argument. You are right,
we are better off than ever. Even with regard to things like
air quality--exhaust fumes from cars and the hole in the
ozone layer are nothing to "sneeze at" so to speak. But
many people do not seem to think about how awful it
was when people used coal and/or wood fires for heat,
especially before advances in filtration.

I do have to agree with you and Toni, however, in saying that whole, natural
foods are better than most processed foods. A lot of our longevity is due
to a safer environment and the advances in health care more than due to
diet. I think we still have a long way to go in improving our diets
(*ESPECIALLY* here in the US - the fattest nation on earth).

I just like to keep in mind that when people bemoan the lack of "natural"
foods in our diets, that all those preservatives have provided more
available "fresh" food to feed our millions, and have decreased rot and
things like "natural" grain ergot that goes along with some "natural" food
and would kill us a lot sooner than cancer later in life.

Those nasty preservatives are what hat has allowed us to feed the
6,516,475,399 people currently living on this planet.

Hugs,

CatNipped

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"CatNipped" wrote in message

Remember transistor radios that only got AM? Remember 8 track tape decks?
Both too big to carry easily.

8 track tapes didn't exist when I was kid, but I do remember putting one in
the second hand '67 T-Bird bought when I was 19. Beautiful car, only after
putting $7000 into it in a span of two years, it rusted out from underneath
me.

Now I use an IPOD almost as small as the batteries those used to use

Never was into them much. To me they're not much different than the person
walking along and talking on their cell phone while they look for a
particular item in a store and pass by it four times because they're
distracted too much. I remember once watching one guy talking on his cell
phone to his girlfriend as he came into a corner store to find a money
machine. I knew right away what he was looking for. The machine was bigger
than he was, yet he walked by it three times and then asked at the front
couter if they had one. Absolutely ludicrous.

Nowadays, I'm so much into the electronic toys and power tools that I'm
almost ashamed for reminiscing about what wasn't around more than 40 years
ago.

Toni wrote:
I think you are nitpicking and missing the point.

Cats have evolved as obligate carnivores- animals who prey upon and eat
other animals. Prey animals consisting of meat, bone, organs, and
predigested vegetable matter in the stomach.
So, to me, feeding a cat a diet consisting of rice, corn, or wheat is in
direct opposition to what their preferred and necessary diet is.

No one is suggesting that you feed your cats rotten meat or disease riddled
animals.


So no, wild animal type of diet is definitely *not* a preferred choice for
your pet. Not if you want your pets to live longer, healthier lives.

There are many, many of us feeding a clean raw diet that would beg to
differ. Raw fed cats are some of the healthiest animals out there with
naturally strong immune systems, naturally clean teeth, and a gleaming non
shedding coat.

Well said, Toni, and I couldn't agree with you more. I've been feeding
my cats a homemade raw diet for over 5 years now and I think they've
really benefitted from it. I know a homemade diet is not for everyone,
but in my case, it's been well worth it.

Lauren

See my cats: http://tinyurl.com/76tg8

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not* the
same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet. In
order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed them
exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other things
they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and amount as
they would eat in nature.


Exactly.
What's so hard about that?


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

"Nomen Nescio" wrote in message
...
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From: "CatNipped"

OK, do you remember when "cell phones" where bigger than your head???! ;
When I was a child we didn't even have cell phones - our land lines came
with rotary dials, telephone numbers where only 7 digits, and telephone
number prefixes where things like "Edgewood 1".

No "party line"?
You musta bin summa dem rich folks when you wuz yung.

LOL! I forgot about those, but yes, we did!

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/





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"Toni" wrote in message
.. .

"CatNipped" wrote in message
...

The only problem with "fresh whole foods" for cats is that it is *not*
the same as fresh whole foods for humans - they need a different diet.
In order to give cats what they need nutritionally we would have to feed
them exclusively on mice, lizards, insects, grass, and all the other
things they eat in the wild - and feed them in the same proprotion and
amount as they would eat in nature.


Exactly.
What's so hard about that?

You left out my next statement...

"Cats in "nature" live an average of 3 to 5 years and most of them look
pretty scraggly and flea-bitten to me."

Cats, like humans in pre-history, tend to lead short, brutal lives when left
on their own in nature. They don't have the benefit of the millions of
dollars of research on cat health and nutrition that pet food companies have
conducted in the last 60 years, so they eat whatever they can catch (which
is not always the best thing for them, but it's all they can catch and
staves off starvation).

There are some people who have had success feeding their animals raw diets,
but it's a *LOT* harder than it sounds, it takes a lot of research to get
the right ingredients* in the right proportion - it's expensive - and you're
still taking the chance that you've forgotten or don't know about some
essential ingredient necessary to a cat's health.

* And people are still using ingredients (pork, beef) that cats wouldn't
normally eat in nature.

--

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/





--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com