"Sick" day

This is a combination of some things I wrote to a couple of friends
today. I thought I'd reach out here, too.

I'm home "sick" today. I guess you could call it a mental health
day, although it feels more like a mental illness day to me. I'm
not getting enough sleep, I don't have much energy, and I feel
overwhelmed all the time. But mostly I just feel very alone.

I'm really scared about getting old and disabled and not having
anyone to take care of me. Apparently, it's a crime to be too damaged
to be able to form and keep close relationships. If you don't have a
partner, or kids, or an extended family, or a circle of loving
friends, I guess you can just go die in the street.

I don't need sympathy so much as I need people who simply enjoy
hanging out with me, whether in person or via the intertubes. I come
home each night to voicemails from 800 numbers, and I log on every
morning to a bunch of stupid notices about what some total stranger
did on LinkedIn or Facebook - my "social" networks that are really so
impersonal. Am I that much of a drag to be around? What have I done
to cause this? Or not done? (Not rhetorical - answer if you wish.)

Joyce

On 03 Aug 2011 22:16:23 GMT, wrote:

This is a combination of some things I wrote to a couple of friends
today. I thought I'd reach out here, too.

I'm home "sick" today. I guess you could call it a mental health
day, although it feels more like a mental illness day to me. I'm
not getting enough sleep, I don't have much energy, and I feel
overwhelmed all the time. But mostly I just feel very alone.

I'm really scared about getting old and disabled and not having
anyone to take care of me. Apparently, it's a crime to be too damaged
to be able to form and keep close relationships. If you don't have a
partner, or kids, or an extended family, or a circle of loving
friends, I guess you can just go die in the street.

I don't need sympathy so much as I need people who simply enjoy
hanging out with me, whether in person or via the intertubes. I come
home each night to voicemails from 800 numbers, and I log on every
morning to a bunch of stupid notices about what some total stranger
did on LinkedIn or Facebook - my "social" networks that are really so
impersonal. Am I that much of a drag to be around? What have I done
to cause this? Or not done? (Not rhetorical - answer if you wish.)

Joyce

I'm reaching back. While I do not post a real addy in my header info,
here it is for you anytime you wish.



It's real and open to you.

Sophia

On 8/3/2011 5:16 PM, wrote:
This is a combination of some things I wrote to a couple of friends
today. I thought I'd reach out here, too.

I'm home "sick" today. I guess you could call it a mental health
day, although it feels more like a mental illness day to me. I'm
not getting enough sleep, I don't have much energy, and I feel
overwhelmed all the time. But mostly I just feel very alone.

I'm really scared about getting old and disabled and not having
anyone to take care of me. Apparently, it's a crime to be too damaged
to be able to form and keep close relationships. If you don't have a
partner, or kids, or an extended family, or a circle of loving
friends, I guess you can just go die in the street.

I don't need sympathy so much as I need people who simply enjoy
hanging out with me, whether in person or via the intertubes. I come
home each night to voicemails from 800 numbers, and I log on every
morning to a bunch of stupid notices about what some total stranger
did on LinkedIn or Facebook - my "social" networks that are really so
impersonal. Am I that much of a drag to be around? What have I done
to cause this? Or not done? (Not rhetorical - answer if you wish.)

Joyce

I feel like I know you a bit, having corresponded with you over the
years here in this group. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe you had a
very troubled childhood. I did too, but not in the same manner (just
the opposite, I think, my mother was very distant and cold, emotionally,
my brothers were a lot older than me and I was alone a lot). I didn't
know *how* to make friends. There was just one friend who sort of
latched onto me, and because I didn't have any other friends, we stayed
friends all these years until recently because I would forgive her
anything rather than be friendless. She was extremely toxic for me and
when I look back at it she was probably the reason my life turned out as
bad as it did compared to my other relatives.

Anyway, I'm getting at two points. First, making friends does not come
naturally to some people - especially we who had "abnormal" childhoods.
Second, you're not alone - there are a lot of us who have only "online
friends". And even though I have children, I can't rely on them to take
care of me when I get old and feeble - I just hope social security pays
for a decent nursing home!

--
Hugs,

CatNipped
See all our masters at: http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped

See the RPCA FAQ site, created by "Yowie", maintained by Mark Edwards, at:
http://www.professional-geek.net/rpcablog/

Email: L(dot)T(dot)Crews(at)comcast(dot)net

In ,
typed:
This is a combination of some things I wrote to a couple of friends
today. I thought I'd reach out here, too.

I'm home "sick" today. I guess you could call it a mental health
day, although it feels more like a mental illness day to me. I'm
not getting enough sleep, I don't have much energy, and I feel
overwhelmed all the time. But mostly I just feel very alone.

I'm really scared about getting old and disabled and not having
anyone to take care of me. Apparently, it's a crime to be too damaged
to be able to form and keep close relationships. If you don't have a
partner, or kids, or an extended family, or a circle of loving
friends, I guess you can just go die in the street.

I don't need sympathy so much as I need people who simply enjoy
hanging out with me, whether in person or via the intertubes. I come
home each night to voicemails from 800 numbers, and I log on every
morning to a bunch of stupid notices about what some total stranger
did on LinkedIn or Facebook - my "social" networks that are really so
impersonal. Am I that much of a drag to be around? What have I done
to cause this? Or not done? (Not rhetorical - answer if you wish.)

Askign what you've done to cause this is sorta like looking for something or
someone - including yourself- to blame.

There would have been things you've done that have prevented you from making
friends, however I doubt that you did them intentionally and I'd lay money
on the fact tha tyou wouldn't even be aware of what they are. Mostly, they
are very subtle things that 'most' people find perfectly natural, but some
folks (like you & I) don't intuitively understand or do to the same degree
as others. Things like eye contact, body movements, the rhythm of
conversation etc etc.

Not that I'm all that skilled in making *friends*. Oh, I have lots of people
I "know", lots of people who are colleagues and aquaintances who I get along
with perfectly well *for colleagues and aquaintances* but I don't have a
particularly large circle of friends in Meatspace. Online is a different
thing all together, because I am judged almost entirely for my words, rather
than how I look, or what body language I display (or, in my case, don't
display).

And even then, its no coincidence that the friends I do have in Meatspace
are all self-confessed nerds and geeks. Whilst of course there's the whole
common-interest thing, I also believe that its because geeks and nerds on
the whole are more forgiving about the lack of that 'social dance' thing
that is expected by regular non-geek/nerd people. I personally wouldn'tbe
surprised to find that every single meatspace friend of mine - and myself -
have a degree of Asperger's. Not *severe* obviously, but there's enough
formal diagnoses in my social circle that it makes me wonder about the rest
of us. And to the letter, all of my social circle are cat people.... I have
this strange feeling it almost goes hand in hand :-)

However, thats not REALLY what you are asking about, IMHO. What you are
expressing above, again IMHO, is that you feel unloved, unliked,
unappreciated, unwanted, unimportant, lonely, depressed. Whilst the rest us
can point out the that we value your friendship, we aprpeciate and love you,
that you are an important part of this here community and we want you to
stay around, its very unlikely that you will be able to believe any of that,
because of the last one, depression. Until the depression is managed,
there's probably not a lot that anyone could say or do to make you feel
better baout yourself, which is a shame, because you really have no idea how
wonderful you truly are!

Yowie

Check your "J Wermont" email.

On 08/03/2011 04:16 PM, wrote:
This is a combination of some things I wrote to a couple of friends
today. I thought I'd reach out here, too.

I'm home "sick" today. I guess you could call it a mental health
day, although it feels more like a mental illness day to me. I'm
not getting enough sleep, I don't have much energy, and I feel
overwhelmed all the time. But mostly I just feel very alone.

I'm really scared about getting old and disabled and not having
anyone to take care of me. Apparently, it's a crime to be too damaged
to be able to form and keep close relationships. If you don't have a
partner, or kids, or an extended family, or a circle of loving
friends, I guess you can just go die in the street.

I don't need sympathy so much as I need people who simply enjoy
hanging out with me, whether in person or via the intertubes. I come
home each night to voicemails from 800 numbers, and I log on every
morning to a bunch of stupid notices about what some total stranger
did on LinkedIn or Facebook - my "social" networks that are really so
impersonal. Am I that much of a drag to be around? What have I done
to cause this? Or not done? (Not rhetorical - answer if you wish.)

Joyce



FYI I have given this a lot of thought, but I do not have an answer.
Having family and/or friends can cause problems too. Will continue
thinking about it. Best wishes, MLB

Yowie wrote:

There would have been things you've done that have prevented you from making
friends, however I doubt that you did them intentionally and I'd lay money
on the fact tha tyou wouldn't even be aware of what they are. Mostly, they
are very subtle things that 'most' people find perfectly natural, but some
folks (like you & I) don't intuitively understand or do to the same degree
as others. Things like eye contact, body movements, the rhythm of
conversation etc etc.

I'm not sure this is true for me. Actually, for most of my life, I've been
pretty good at making friends. I was extremely shy and withdrawn as a child,
but I came out of my shell in my 20s and was a pretty social person for the
next couple of decades. But over the past 10 years or so, I've found myself
retreating again, becoming more reclusive and isolated, and more misanthropic.
I don't know why this has happened - I have some theories about it, but no
specific cause I can point to and say, aha, that's what started it. I've been
trying to get out of this stuck place for years, but it actually seems to
be getting worse, not better. So I'm dealing with a strong force here that
I don't understand and can't seem to get a grip on. Maybe it's a biological
imperative to turn into my mother.

One thing I've always had trouble with, even in my social years, was *keeping*
friends. Most friendships would just kind of end mysteriously, before it
had the chance to take hold. I did have closer friends with whom I maintained
long relationships, but eventually, even those fell apart. My past is littered
with (what seems like) dozens of broken relationships. The main thing I
had going for me was that I could always make new friends. Now that I'm not
doing much of that, my social life has dwindled down to just a few people,
who I cling to like they're a life raft.

I consider myself to be neurotypical. I'm quirky, some might call me weird,
but - whatever. I think my social difficulties come from an abusive upbringing
and aren't biologically based.

Not that I'm all that skilled in making *friends*. Oh, I have lots of people
I "know", lots of people who are colleagues and aquaintances who I get along
with perfectly well *for colleagues and aquaintances* but I don't have a
particularly large circle of friends in Meatspace. Online is a different
thing all together, because I am judged almost entirely for my words, rather
than how I look, or what body language I display (or, in my case, don't
display).

Do you mean that you're not very expressive in person? You certainly
are in writing. You're also a very logical person, but not in an
emotionless or "robotic" sort of way - actually you come across to me
as pretty warm and friendly.

And even then, its no coincidence that the friends I do have in Meatspace
are all self-confessed nerds and geeks. Whilst of course there's the whole
common-interest thing, I also believe that its because geeks and nerds on
the whole are more forgiving about the lack of that 'social dance' thing
that is expected by regular non-geek/nerd people.

Yes, I agree with that. On the other hand, I've encountered some pretty
intense intolerance from geeks about my lack of knowledge in various
areas, mostly technical or scientific, and especially at jobs. You know
how geeks can really slam a person if they make an incorrect or baseless
statement. I don't know, maybe Aussie nerds are more relaxed, but I live
in Geek Mecca USA and have worked in the computer industry for 3 decades,
so I've seen a lot of computer geeks in my day. Unfortunately, I have to
say that a high percentage of those encounters have been pretty unpleasant.

Which is not to say that I haven't found my own subcultural niche to fit
into, but it's definitely not the sf/RPG/gamer/superheroes/anime/build-your-
own-Linux-machine type of subculture. My crowd is more like politically
progressive, artists, musicians, writers, activists, queers and other
misfits. These folks aren't always the most tolerant either, but I think
that's true of most cliques.

I personally wouldn'tbe
surprised to find that every single meatspace friend of mine - and myself -
have a degree of Asperger's. Not *severe* obviously, but there's enough
formal diagnoses in my social circle that it makes me wonder about the rest
of us. And to the letter, all of my social circle are cat people.... I have
this strange feeling it almost goes hand in hand :-)

I know what you mean about cat people. Most people I know are at least
animal lovers if not outright cat worshippers.

I also have one friend who sometimes wonders if she falls somewhere on
the Asperger's spectrum. She and I have radically different ways of
thinking and of seeing the world, which often causes communication
problems between us. She doesn't identify as neurotypical, but most of
my friends do, even the cat lovers.

However, thats not REALLY what you are asking about, IMHO. What you are
expressing above, again IMHO, is that you feel unloved, unliked,
unappreciated, unwanted, unimportant, lonely, depressed.

Well, that about sums it up, yeah.

Whilst the rest us
can point out the that we value your friendship, we aprpeciate and love you,
that you are an important part of this here community and we want you to
stay around, its very unlikely that you will be able to believe any of that,
because of the last one, depression. Until the depression is managed,
there's probably not a lot that anyone could say or do to make you feel
better baout yourself, which is a shame, because you really have no idea how
wonderful you truly are!

That's a really nice thing to say, thanks! (And yes, I know you mean it
and aren't just trying to be "encouraging".) I guess it comes down to this -
I don't feel like people pay very much attention to me, and when I don't
get attention, I feel unloved. I'm not saying that's rational, and I know
that people fail to respond to posts, or neglect to call their friends, for
a large variety of reasons having nothing to do with me. It's very hard
to escape that feeling, though.

Joyce

--
The Internet is on computers now! -- Homer Simpson

wrote in message
...
Yowie wrote:

There would have been things you've done that have prevented you from
making
friends, however I doubt that you did them intentionally and I'd lay
money
on the fact tha tyou wouldn't even be aware of what they are. Mostly,
they
are very subtle things that 'most' people find perfectly natural, but
some
folks (like you & I) don't intuitively understand or do to the same
degree
as others. Things like eye contact, body movements, the rhythm of
conversation etc etc.

I'm not sure this is true for me. Actually, for most of my life, I've been
pretty good at making friends. I was extremely shy and withdrawn as a
child,
but I came out of my shell in my 20s and was a pretty social person for
the
next couple of decades. But over the past 10 years or so, I've found
myself
retreating again, becoming more reclusive and isolated, and more
misanthropic.
I don't know why this has happened - I have some theories about it, but no
specific cause I can point to and say, aha, that's what started it. I've
been
trying to get out of this stuck place for years, but it actually seems to
be getting worse, not better. So I'm dealing with a strong force here that
I don't understand and can't seem to get a grip on. Maybe it's a
biological
imperative to turn into my mother.

One thing I've always had trouble with, even in my social years, was
*keeping*
friends. Most friendships would just kind of end mysteriously, before it
had the chance to take hold. I did have closer friends with whom I
maintained
long relationships, but eventually, even those fell apart. My past is
littered
with (what seems like) dozens of broken relationships. The main thing I
had going for me was that I could always make new friends. Now that I'm
not
doing much of that, my social life has dwindled down to just a few people,
who I cling to like they're a life raft.

I consider myself to be neurotypical. I'm quirky, some might call me
weird,
but - whatever. I think my social difficulties come from an abusive
upbringing
and aren't biologically based.

Not that I'm all that skilled in making *friends*. Oh, I have lots of
people
I "know", lots of people who are colleagues and aquaintances who I get
along
with perfectly well *for colleagues and aquaintances* but I don't have a
particularly large circle of friends in Meatspace. Online is a different
thing all together, because I am judged almost entirely for my words,
rather
than how I look, or what body language I display (or, in my case, don't
display).

Do you mean that you're not very expressive in person? You certainly
are in writing. You're also a very logical person, but not in an
emotionless or "robotic" sort of way - actually you come across to me
as pretty warm and friendly.

And even then, its no coincidence that the friends I do have in
Meatspace
are all self-confessed nerds and geeks. Whilst of course there's the
whole
common-interest thing, I also believe that its because geeks and nerds
on
the whole are more forgiving about the lack of that 'social dance' thing
that is expected by regular non-geek/nerd people.

Yes, I agree with that. On the other hand, I've encountered some pretty
intense intolerance from geeks about my lack of knowledge in various
areas, mostly technical or scientific, and especially at jobs. You know
how geeks can really slam a person if they make an incorrect or baseless
statement. I don't know, maybe Aussie nerds are more relaxed, but I live
in Geek Mecca USA and have worked in the computer industry for 3 decades,
so I've seen a lot of computer geeks in my day. Unfortunately, I have to
say that a high percentage of those encounters have been pretty
unpleasant.

Which is not to say that I haven't found my own subcultural niche to fit
into, but it's definitely not the
sf/RPG/gamer/superheroes/anime/build-your-
own-Linux-machine type of subculture. My crowd is more like politically
progressive, artists, musicians, writers, activists, queers and other
misfits. These folks aren't always the most tolerant either, but I think
that's true of most cliques.

I personally wouldn'tbe
surprised to find that every single meatspace friend of mine - and
myself -
have a degree of Asperger's. Not *severe* obviously, but there's enough
formal diagnoses in my social circle that it makes me wonder about the
rest
of us. And to the letter, all of my social circle are cat people.... I
have
this strange feeling it almost goes hand in hand :-)

I know what you mean about cat people. Most people I know are at least
animal lovers if not outright cat worshippers.

I also have one friend who sometimes wonders if she falls somewhere on
the Asperger's spectrum. She and I have radically different ways of
thinking and of seeing the world, which often causes communication
problems between us. She doesn't identify as neurotypical, but most of
my friends do, even the cat lovers.

However, thats not REALLY what you are asking about, IMHO. What you are
expressing above, again IMHO, is that you feel unloved, unliked,
unappreciated, unwanted, unimportant, lonely, depressed.

Well, that about sums it up, yeah.

Whilst the rest us
can point out the that we value your friendship, we aprpeciate and love
you,
that you are an important part of this here community and we want you to
stay around, its very unlikely that you will be able to believe any of
that,
because of the last one, depression. Until the depression is managed,
there's probably not a lot that anyone could say or do to make you feel
better baout yourself, which is a shame, because you really have no idea
how
wonderful you truly are!

That's a really nice thing to say, thanks! (And yes, I know you mean it
and aren't just trying to be "encouraging".) I guess it comes down to
this -
I don't feel like people pay very much attention to me, and when I don't
get attention, I feel unloved. I'm not saying that's rational, and I know
that people fail to respond to posts, or neglect to call their friends,
for
a large variety of reasons having nothing to do with me. It's very hard
to escape that feeling, though.

Joyce

I think I know what you mean there. It often seems to me that people don't
pay attention to me, and it does feel hurtful. However, for a great deal of
my life, I did my best not to be noticed. It's only during the last 20
years that I've come out of my shell, so to speak. I always did have a
streak of ham, but most of the time I preferred to fade into the background
and let others take the lead. Since I joined Toastmasters, though, I've
become much more assertive, and I do get noticed more. However, there are
still times when I feel ignored.

However, I've gotten past the point where that makes me feel unloved. I've
had enough concrete examples to know that people do care about me. I'm sorry
your experience hasn't been like that.

You do write very well, and have great stories to tell. Maybe you could be
helped by joining a Toastmasters club. If you think you might be
interested, go to www.toastmasters.org. It is easy to find a club near you.
It is a good idea to email the contact person to make sure the club still
meets when and where the website shows, because websites don't always get
updated. Nearly all Toastmasters clubs welcome visitors, with no obligation
to join. The dues are quite reasonable if one does decide to join.

If you (or anyone) has any questions about Toastmasters, feel free to email
me.

Joy

wrote:
... I guess it comes down to this -
I don't feel like people pay very much attention to me, and when I don't
get attention, I feel unloved. I'm not saying that's rational, and I know
that people fail to respond to posts, or neglect to call their friends, for
a large variety of reasons having nothing to do with me. It's very hard
to escape that feeling, though.

Joyce, I'd just like to say that I always enjoy your posts, and
when my time online is limited, I *seek out* your posts, because
I know that will be a pleasant, interesting thread to read.

I don't know you in person, but I always feel a warm regard when
I see you online, and I *wish* I knew you in person.

Hug, if you'd like one,
Deborah

In ,
typed:
Yowie wrote:

There would have been things you've done that have prevented you
from making friends, however I doubt that you did them intentionally
and I'd lay money on the fact tha tyou wouldn't even be aware of
what they are. Mostly, they are very subtle things that 'most'
people find perfectly natural, but some folks (like you & I) don't
intuitively understand or do to the same degree as others. Things
like eye contact, body movements, the rhythm of conversation etc etc.

I'm not sure this is true for me. Actually, for most of my life, I've
been pretty good at making friends. I was extremely shy and withdrawn
as a child, but I came out of my shell in my 20s and was a pretty
social person for the next couple of decades. But over the past 10
years or so, I've found myself retreating again, becoming more
reclusive and isolated, and more misanthropic. I don't know why this
has happened - I have some theories about it, but no specific cause I
can point to and say, aha, that's what started it. I've been trying
to get out of this stuck place for years, but it actually seems to
be getting worse, not better. So I'm dealing with a strong force here
that
I don't understand and can't seem to get a grip on. Maybe it's a
biological imperative to turn into my mother.

Yes, its always scary to get older and discover the person looking back in
the mirror looks very much like your own mother!

I wonder if the slow 'retreat' also correlates with a slow decline into
depression?

One thing I've always had trouble with, even in my social years, was
*keeping* friends. Most friendships would just kind of end
mysteriously, before it
had the chance to take hold. I did have closer friends with whom I
maintained long relationships, but eventually, even those fell apart.
My past is littered with (what seems like) dozens of broken
relationships. The main thing I
had going for me was that I could always make new friends. Now that
I'm not doing much of that, my social life has dwindled down to just
a few people, who I cling to like they're a life raft.

When I was younger, I struggled so much with a lack of friends. Whilst my
sister is the outgoing, bubble, funny one, I was always (and still am), the
'deep and serious' one. The best I could do was steel my sister's friends,
which added to my social pariah status as one thing you never EVER do in
HighSchool is have friends that are in years below you (having friends the
year above you, quixotically, is fine).

Although not at all religious back then, one night I had a dream where Jesus
sat down with me (at school, as I sat by myself as I usually did) and said
in a caring and loving way, something akin to "With friends, its always
quality not quantity. One or two really good friends with which you have a
deep relationship with will always be better than thousands of shallow,
meaningless relationships". This has kept me sane when I've wondered like
you above what the heck I was doing wrong that I never had the wide social
circle and the popularity that my sister had.

The ironic thing, though, is that my sister has encountered some emotionally
tough times recently and has confessed to me that the only person she can
truly have a heart to heart with is me - the rest of her so called 'friends'
are not up to having meaningful, deep conversations and are jovial fluffy
air-head just-wanna-have-fun types who scatter when the hard part of
friendship (supporting a friend in need) comes along.

So JOyce, hang on to those few friends you share a deep connection with, and
don't worry about the more trivial 'fun' so called 'friendships'.

I consider myself to be neurotypical. I'm quirky, some might call me
weird, but - whatever. I think my social difficulties come from an
abusive upbringing and aren't biologically based.

I didn't know that.

That makes sense, and I'm sorry you had an abusive upringing :-(

Not that I'm all that skilled in making *friends*. Oh, I have lots
of people I "know", lots of people who are colleagues and
aquaintances who I get along with perfectly well *for colleagues and
aquaintances* but I don't have a particularly large circle of
friends in Meatspace. Online is a different thing all together,
because I am judged almost entirely for my words, rather than how I
look, or what body language I display (or, in my case, don't
display).

Do you mean that you're not very expressive in person? You certainly
are in writing. You're also a very logical person, but not in an
emotionless or "robotic" sort of way - actually you come across to me
as pretty warm and friendly.

I think ofmyself as warm and friendly too. But it doesn't seem to come
across like that most of the time. I have no idea why. I've gstopped
worrying about it, though. I don't need any more friends, I have trouble
enough keeping up with the friends I do have.

And even then, its no coincidence that the friends I do have in
Meatspace are all self-confessed nerds and geeks. Whilst of course
there's the whole common-interest thing, I also believe that its
because geeks and nerds on the whole are more forgiving about the
lack of that 'social dance' thing that is expected by regular
non-geek/nerd people.

Yes, I agree with that. On the other hand, I've encountered some
pretty intense intolerance from geeks about my lack of knowledge in
various
areas, mostly technical or scientific, and especially at jobs. You
know
how geeks can really slam a person if they make an incorrect or
baseless statement. I don't know, maybe Aussie nerds are more
relaxed, but I live
in Geek Mecca USA and have worked in the computer industry for 3
decades,
so I've seen a lot of computer geeks in my day. Unfortunately, I have
to
say that a high percentage of those encounters have been pretty
unpleasant.

I hang around gaming nerds. Then again, perhaps its not that /nerds/ are
unjudgemental creatures, but rather the nerds I am *friends* with are :-)

Which is not to say that I haven't found my own subcultural niche to
fit into, but it's definitely not the
sf/RPG/gamer/superheroes/anime/build-your- own-Linux-machine type of
subculture. My crowd is more like politically progressive, artists,
musicians, writers, activists, queers and other misfits. These folks
aren't always the most tolerant either, but I think that's true of
most cliques.

Cliques are cliques for that very reason.

Do you have any folk festivals around your way? Because they above is
exactly the type of people you find at them (My Dad is a folkie. I suspect
I'll be one when the Yowlet is grown and I have more time to express my
artistic side (either by more writing, or by drawing, or by both)

I personally wouldn'tbe
surprised to find that every single meatspace friend of mine - and
myself - have a degree of Asperger's. Not *severe* obviously, but
there's enough formal diagnoses in my social circle that it makes me
wonder about the rest of us. And to the letter, all of my social
circle are cat people.... I have this strange feeling it almost goes
hand in hand :-)

I know what you mean about cat people. Most people I know are at least
animal lovers if not outright cat worshippers.

Animals make more sense than most people :-)

I also have one friend who sometimes wonders if she falls somewhere on
the Asperger's spectrum. She and I have radically different ways of
thinking and of seeing the world, which often causes communication
problems between us. She doesn't identify as neurotypical, but most of
my friends do, even the cat lovers.

I don't know whether I"m neurotypical or not. Clealry, I have no trouble
expressing myself in writing! However, my 'baseline' is terribly, terribly
skewed. The usual crowd I hang with has 3 *diagnosed* Asperger's people in
it, and another 2 who are so Aspie they don't *need* a diagnosis for the
rest of us to look at the diagnosed ones and point to the very same traits
in the undiagnosed ones. Two for example, end pretty much each sentence with
"Hmmmmm". One has absolutely no concept of personal space. Another has
elaborate food rituals - taking him out to eat is nigh on impossible - and
he is a chronic hoarder of electronica, but he's a really nice guy anyway. I
trust these folks with my life, however, because they are completley
bull****-free zones. There is no sublte inuendo, no double meanings, no
headgames, no bull****. They call a spade a spade and entirely fail to see
any reason why anyone would want to do otherwise. They will happily tell me
is my ass looks big in a pair of jeans if I ask them -one even said "yes, it
makes your arse look big, but I like big arses". I find it easier to be with
these folks than I do with 'regular' people who tell half truths, play 'head
games' and say things they don't mean.

And I work with research scientists, who prove exceptionally well the old
adage of 'there's a fine line between genius and insanity'. Most folks here
at work will readily admit they feel far more comfortable working away in
their lab by themselves than dealing with people and they are all experts
(by definition) on an extremely narrow subject. One person here goes nuts if
you disturb his desk in anyway (its a total pigsty, but he knows *exactly*
where everything is and can tell if anything is out by even millimetres.
Another's "party trick" is to get someone to name two stations on the London
Underground, and he will name all the stations you'd go through *in order*
if you travelled between those two points. He keeps a diary of what train
engines he's spotted, and I have seen him shout for joy and hug strangers
when he's got the last engine in a series (scary). Yet another woudl sneak
around the labs doing crocodile impersonations if he got at all stressed,
and insisted we all called him "Uncle Ted". All are utterly brilliant
scientists, all totally mad, and all I would suspect are quite a long way
down the Asperger's spectrum because *none* of that is Neurotypical
behaviour.

These are the people I spend my time with. I have no idea what 'normal' is
like :-)

However, thats not REALLY what you are asking about, IMHO. What you
are expressing above, again IMHO, is that you feel unloved, unliked,
unappreciated, unwanted, unimportant, lonely, depressed.

Well, that about sums it up, yeah.

Whilst the rest us
can point out the that we value your friendship, we aprpeciate and
love you, that you are an important part of this here community and
we want you to stay around, its very unlikely that you will be able
to believe any of that, because of the last one, depression. Until
the depression is managed, there's probably not a lot that anyone
could say or do to make you feel better baout yourself, which is a
shame, because you really have no idea how wonderful you truly are!

That's a really nice thing to say, thanks! (And yes, I know you mean
it
and aren't just trying to be "encouraging".) I guess it comes down to
this - I don't feel like people pay very much attention to me, and
when I don't
get attention, I feel unloved. I'm not saying that's rational, and I
know that people fail to respond to posts, or neglect to call their
friends, for
a large variety of reasons having nothing to do with me. It's very
hard
to escape that feeling, though.

I am familiar with this sitting-alone-in-a-cold-dark-empty-pit feeling. I
know those irrational, illogical thoughts all too well.

I can't tell you *why* it lifted for me, but I am so very grateful that it
did. I can only recommend that you get this depression treated, both with
antu-depressants AND cognitive behaviour therapy. At the moment, your own
worst enemy is your own mind, and whilst I coudl recommend that you seek out
some sort of activity where you help other people or get involved in
somethign where you are needed and kept busy (having 'thinking' time is,
IMHO, the worst thing for you at the meoment), that in itself will not
necessarily help lift the depression (although may help keep it at bay once
you've got it under control).

Wish I could wave a magic wand to make it go away, wish I could send you a
magic mirror that woudl allow yourself to see what a unique and special
person you are, but I can't.

best I can offer is just some words on a screen, and pray that they help in
some small, but significant way.

And, as you know, my inboxes are always open, you can ping me on twitter at
@yowie9644 if you want to chat, I'm on Facebook, you can snail mail me, and
I can even call you if you tell me your phone number. And of course, there's
always here.

Wish you could see you through my eyes.

Yowie