Advice please?

Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks, toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

If she's not actually ill & showing signs of distress, I personally can't
imagine euthanizing her at this point - or in a month's time, rather. Does
she enjoy sunbaths, still? Doe she purr when she's petted? Does she watch
the other cats - at least to some degree, & in general take notice of her
environment?

You mention her lower back (arthritis, maybe?) & possible kidney probs. Has
she been to the vet for a check-up? Has the vet prescribed treatment for
either condition to help her to feel better? If her BUN & creatinine are
elevated - indicating renal failure, here's a great site w/ lots of
practical info:
http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm


Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks, toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her
increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes
down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they
wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

I know cats are not humans, but I think you have to look at it like this:
if
you were her, living her life, would you be happy to keep on living? I
mean, if, as you said, she seems quite happy in general, what makes you
think it would be more merciful to have her put down? As you said,
everyone
slows down in later years, but unless a cat is clearly in unbearable pain
and clearly suffering, not just in a bit of discomfort (do you think most
of
us would want to be euthanized for arthritis?), I don't think there's any
reason not to let them live out their life. And if you're worried about
her
not having enough interest in her life, maybe you could try and find some
toys or other distractions appropriate to an older cat (not that I can
think
of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure others might have suggestions,
and there are so many resources on the web), though quality time with you
and the other cats may be enough for her at this age. Anyway, I think
unless she's suffering, you can comfortably let her go on living out her
life; I'm sure you'll get plenty more input to help you make your
difficult
decision.

All the Best,
Ann

P.S. When you said, "I know she has some discomfort from her lower back,
and
probably kidney problems," did you mean, probably her kidney problems are
giving her some discomfort? Or probably she has kidney problems? Because
if you weren't sure, I was going to say you might want to get her checked
out, but then I realized you might just not be sure of the level of
discomfort. In any case, you could always consult your vet as to how much
they think she is suffering in general, and what they think her quality of
life is; most competent vets will not put a cat down unless they truly
believe it's necessary, and I'm sure they'd be glad to give you their
professional opinion as to her state of well-being (if you can afford it,
that is). I'm sure a vet would also be happy to give you advice as to
ways
of keeping an older cat occupied and interested as well.


I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots more
and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems, but it
was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better not to treat
her.

I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing. I've had her
since I was 5, and I still remember her scaring me silly by playing in the
saucepans and stuff. And now she really rarely moves much.

The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.
Shes never really complained, even when I knew she was suffering, and I
don't want to discover she is suffering terribly and only living because of
some basic need to stay alive, and not much else. I mean most people with
mild atheritis would probably not want to be put to sleep, but someone who
is suffering with really bad athertis, hurting everytime they move, might
sometimes wish they could die peacefully.

But thank you for your thoughts

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
P.S. When you said, "I know she has some discomfort from her lower back,
and
probably kidney problems," did you mean, probably her kidney problems
are
giving her some discomfort? Or probably she has kidney problems?
Because
if you weren't sure, I was going to say you might want to get her
checked
out, but then I realized you might just not be sure of the level of
discomfort. In any case, you could always consult your vet as to how
much
they think she is suffering in general, and what they think her quality
of
life is; most competent vets will not put a cat down unless they truly
believe it's necessary, and I'm sure they'd be glad to give you their
professional opinion as to her state of well-being (if you can afford
it,
that is). I'm sure a vet would also be happy to give you advice as to
ways
of keeping an older cat occupied and interested as well.


I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
more
and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems, but it
was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better not to treat
her.

There is no age limitation (IOW - no upper age limit) for treating chronic
renal failure. In fact, it is a condition that shows up, for the most part,
only in older - elderly cats.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Cathy Friedmann" wrote in message
...
If she's not actually ill & showing signs of distress, I personally can't
imagine euthanizing her at this point - or in a month's time, rather.
Does
she enjoy sunbaths, still? Doe she purr when she's petted? Does she
watch
the other cats - at least to some degree, & in general take notice of her
environment?

She doesn't much move to enjoy sunbaths. She avoids the other cats, as she
always has other animals. She hates other pets, unfortunately Gizmo and
Betsy were far better off here, and Katie has adapted well to them existing.
As for the general environment, she certainly isn't taking as much notice as
she used to. She likes to sleep. I'm not saying she doesn't derive some
enjoyment from the environment, but it concerns me that she is progressively
"shutting down", and I genuinely don't believe life can be as fun for her as
it was.

You mention her lower back (arthritis, maybe?) & possible kidney probs.
Has
she been to the vet for a check-up? Has the vet prescribed treatment for
either condition to help her to feel better? If her BUN & creatinine are
elevated - indicating renal failure, here's a great site w/ lots of
practical info:
http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm


She has been to the vet about 8 months when some signs of the problems were
showing, it was suggested by the vet that treatment for kidney problems
might not be the best way to go.

Regardless of the choice I make about her life, I do plan to take her to the
vets fairly soon, to once again get her checked over.

I love her to bits, and the thought of going up stairs and not seeing her
there is difficult. However my family had a habit of prolonging animals
suffering in order to gain more time with the pet, and I am very conscious
of not allowing my need to be with an animal overrid an animals best
interest. Hense I'm looking for advice

Thanks for your comments and I'm just taking a look at the link you gave me


--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks,
toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from
her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her
increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes
down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they
wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no
desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

"Niels Peter" wrote in message
k...
Dooies B.B wrote:
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks,
toilets, and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some
discomfort from her lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other
than that and her increased laziness she seems quite happy, purrs
when I go to see her, still comes down stairs when she wants more
food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they wanted to divide
themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no
desire to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a
month or so rather than forcing her to go on living when basically
she doesn't live the most active of lives, and its not that full of
interest. I try and spend time with her, but I just wonder if forcing
her to live on to the bitter end is the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

After your description I'd say she still wants to live. She seems happy
to you, she purrs when you come to see her etc. Of course the pace of
life slows down when you're growing old, but that doesn't mean you'd
rather be dead ...
There are many quiet joys - both for humans and for animals - in just
existing.

--
Niels Peter
www.bluewhite.dk
Cats Are People, Too!


I hope so. Its just something that worries me. Knowing when the time is
right.

In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're answer is yes, then please take her to a vet who knows how to
*treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Regardless of the choice I make about her life, I do plan to take her to
the
vets fairly soon, to once again get her checked over.

Well, I think this will help you make your decision, as the vet should be
able to give you a reasonable idea of just how much discomfort she is in, if
any.


I love her to bits, and the thought of going up stairs and not seeing her
there is difficult. However my family had a habit of prolonging animals
suffering in order to gain more time with the pet, and I am very conscious
of not allowing my need to be with an animal overrid an animals best
interest. Hense I'm looking for advice

I think that's very admirable. I know it's a difficult situation;
regardless of whether someone we love is nearly gone, or just getting older,
we can't help but remember them how they were and feel a little sad that
things have changed so much. But I think you won't be able to make an
informed choice for your kitty until you get some input from the vet,
especially if she's not very obvious about her pain. I hope the vet is able
to treat any of her health problems after all, and that she can have a bit
more time with you in comfort, but in any case, please keep us informed.

All the Best,
Ann

In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm
wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so
rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the
most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend
time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter
end
is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

I know cats are not humans, but I think you have to look at it like
this:
if
you were her, living her life, would you be happy to keep on living? I
mean, if, as you said, she seems quite happy in general, what makes you
think it would be more merciful to have her put down? As you said,
everyone
slows down in later years, but unless a cat is clearly in unbearable
pain
and clearly suffering, not just in a bit of discomfort (do you think
most
of
us would want to be euthanized for arthritis?), I don't think there's
any
reason not to let them live out their life. And if you're worried about
her
not having enough interest in her life, maybe you could try and find
some
toys or other distractions appropriate to an older cat (not that I can
think
of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure others might have
suggestions,
and there are so many resources on the web), though quality time with
you
and the other cats may be enough for her at this age. Anyway, I think
unless she's suffering, you can comfortably let her go on living out her
life; I'm sure you'll get plenty more input to help you make your
difficult
decision.

All the Best,
Ann

P.S. When you said, "I know she has some discomfort from her lower back,
and
probably kidney problems," did you mean, probably her kidney problems
are
giving her some discomfort? Or probably she has kidney problems?
Because
if you weren't sure, I was going to say you might want to get her
checked
out, but then I realized you might just not be sure of the level of
discomfort. In any case, you could always consult your vet as to how
much
they think she is suffering in general, and what they think her quality
of
life is; most competent vets will not put a cat down unless they truly
believe it's necessary, and I'm sure they'd be glad to give you their
professional opinion as to her state of well-being (if you can afford
it,
that is). I'm sure a vet would also be happy to give you advice as to
ways
of keeping an older cat occupied and interested as well.


I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
more
and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems, but it
was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better not to treat
her.

You need a new vet, IMO. 15 is old but kidney problems can be very
successfully treated and add years to her life. If it isn't too late, I'd
sure try. Many, many people on this group have cats with severe kidney
disease, but the cats are living good lives. Some have started treatment as
late as 18 years. Your vet is not doing you a favor and it is sad. I really
think the next step is a different vet and at least *try* to give her a
chance. I can see that she is important to you. It's your vets duty to try
if you want them too. Treating kidney problems usually consists mostly of a
diet change *if possible* and fluid treatments. They are not traumatic.
Please let us know.

Karen