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Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 28th 06, 05:01 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
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Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.

I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?

I'm absolutely committed to giving them the best life possible. The
four of us are very tight: whenever I'm home the three of them stick to
me like white on rice! But something's wrong and I want to figure it
out. I thought I'd ask you to see if you can help!

Thanks so much!

  #2  
Old January 28th 06, 05:46 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
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Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

If you can do the webcam thing quickly, I'd try it to save money on taking
them all the the vet (although a web cam might cost more, I don't know) But
if it has just started in the last few days or weeks, one of them is most
likely ill. Males get kidney blockages fairly often and they start
associating the litter box with the pain of peeing. It also can kill them if
not caught quickly. My 14 yr old male developed diabetes and the first sign
was peeing outside box (also drinking A LOT and ravenously hungry all the
time). Extra drinking can also mean renal failure, which my 8 year old
female had after being born w/one kidney. If any of them are also drinking
more than usual, get them to the vet FAST. Both the diabetes and renal
failure are eventually fatal, but with commitment to either IV fluids or
insulin shots (vet can teach you to do both at home) and proper feeding,
Muffin (female) lived 3 more years and Domino (male) lived another year (he
also peed in our laundry baskets of clothes, too) So don't be afraid it's a
death sentence immediately if its one of those.

Probably it is one that started it and if the others are too, it's the smell
that says it's okay to pee there. Keep the closet closed and if you can't do
them webcam quickly, please take them all to the vet for a checkup. Good
luck and let us know how it goes.

"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.

I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?

I'm absolutely committed to giving them the best life possible. The
four of us are very tight: whenever I'm home the three of them stick to
me like white on rice! But something's wrong and I want to figure it
out. I thought I'd ask you to see if you can help!

Thanks so much!



  #3  
Old January 28th 06, 05:50 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box


"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Snip, snip.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?


When it comes to inappropriate urination, the first step to take is a step
in the direction of a vet to determine whether or not it's a medical problem
and then go from there.

Just my 2 cents worth.


  #4  
Old January 28th 06, 07:04 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box


"RalGrl" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.

I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?


Inappropriate urination can be a sign of lower urinary disease or systemic
illness. Thus, the first order of business is to rule out illness before
even trying behavioral modification.

To identify the culprit, ask your vet (or ophthalmologist) for some
fluorescein test strips. Cut the strips into tiny pieces and put them into a
#4 gelcap (available at any compounding pharmacy). Give one gelcap to one
cat. If the inappropriate urine flouresces bright candy apple green under a
black light (available at Petsmart for ~$15), you've found the culprit to
take to the vet.

If the urine fluoresces normal, wait 36 hours before giving a fluorescein
gelcap to the next cat. Repeat the process with your other cats until you
find the culprit. It takes about 36 hours for a cat to completely clear
fluorescein from their urine. This technique works- but its useless if more
than one cat is urinating fluorescein. So, just be sure to wait at least 36
hours before giving the next cat fluorescein.

Feline urine normally fluoresces a yellowish-green. Look at normal urine in
the litterbox under the black light first so you'll be able to distinguish
normal urine from urine with fluorescein.. The blacklight works best in
dark rooms.

The black light (Wood's light) will also help you find other spots where
your cat urinated- so its a good investment.

Best of luck,

Phil






  #5  
Old January 28th 06, 10:01 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

You've received good advice, but a low-tech way to start might be just
to add another box. Sometimes three cats start having issues w/sharing
a box. Coud you put a covered box in the bedroom near the closet (maybe
just temporarily)?

  #6  
Old January 28th 06, 04:55 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

For three cats you should have AT LEAST three litter boxes (four is even
better). Some cats prefer to pee in one box and poo in another.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


  #7  
Old January 28th 06, 10:17 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
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Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box


RalGrl wrote:
Hi all,
I have a question about my cats urinating outside the litter box. I'm
hoping someone here might have some advice. I'll try to give as much
details as possible, but if you need to know more please ask.


Step one is to take them to the vet to rule out possible medical
problems. Anything from a UTI to something else which has
inappropriate urination as a secondary symptom. You can start with the
cat(s) you most suspect & work from there, or take all 3 at one fell
swoop. The fact that it's on a pair of sneakers & a pile of laundry
causes me to think "UTI" as a possibility right away.

Plus, with 3 cats, it'd probably help to have at least 2 litter boxes.

Once these 2 things are done - vet check & extra box, if the problem
still persists, then go from there. But either may solve the problem.

Cathy


I have three cats. Two of them I got on the same day from the same
place (not biological sisters) in Nov 2001 when they were no older than
7-8 weeks old. The third one was rescued in July 2002 when she was
about 6-7 weeks old. The resuced cat was traumatized when we think she
was about five weeks old (six at the latest). We think she was hit by
a car (that's a WHOLE different story). One of the other two is
epileptic, though the cause is unknown. The third seems to be totally
fine.

I scoop their box daily. They have plenty of litter in it. But for a
while now occasionally one of them (well, who knows... could be all of
them rotating, I wouldn't know) urinates in my closet. It has always
been contained to my dirty clothes basket. Last week I noticed that
someone had urinated on a pair of sneakers I had on the floor by the
basket. Tonight I just discovered someone urinated on a pile of
clothes that are on a shelf at a minimum of four feet up (probably
closer to five feet). **This is the first time something like this has
ever happened**

Obviously this is a problem. An immediate response I have is to close
them off to my bedroom whenever I'm not here (no matter how long I'm
gone). BUT, of course this won't stop them if I'm downstairs and in
the house, or if I'm at work, or even when I'm asleep. This is clearly
becoming a problem. I don't think it's possible or even kind (for lack
of a better word) for me to close them off from the bedroom at all
other times. BUHLIEVE ME! I've tried to sleep with the door closed
(they take up so much of the bed :-) but they literally fling their
bodies up against the door -- I know, because someone outside the door
witnessed it. So, that's not really an option. If I close the door
even when I'm home then I'd feel like I'm really alienating them. They
hang in my room when I'm not here because it's *my* room.

Another thing I've thought of is setting up a webcam to surveil the
closet. I swear, I'd watch the footage - minute by minute - to figure
this out. I'm hoping to see that it's only one of them and then take
her to the vet to have her checked out.

So, I have questions. Is this behavioral? Is it medical? Is it just
one of them marking her territory, or could it be more than one of
them? Is there something else I should do?

I'm absolutely committed to giving them the best life possible. The
four of us are very tight: whenever I'm home the three of them stick to
me like white on rice! But something's wrong and I want to figure it
out. I thought I'd ask you to see if you can help!

Thanks so much!


  #8  
Old January 29th 06, 03:21 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box


"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

To identify the culprit, ask your vet (or ophthalmologist) for some
fluorescein test strips. Cut the strips into tiny pieces and put them into
a
#4 gelcap (available at any compounding pharmacy). Give one gelcap to one
cat. If the inappropriate urine flouresces bright candy apple green under
a
black light (available at Petsmart for ~$15), you've found the culprit to
take to the vet.


Hi Phil,
I just attended a lecture a couple of days ago on inappropriate urination
and the two behaviourists giving the lecture said that this approach is
falling out of favour. Apparently the original researcher who put forth
this idea was using equine fluorescein strips which are 7-10 times more
concentrated then the strips used in small animal medicine. Therefore you
need to use at least 30-35 strips to get the effect obtained in the original
paper. Also it turns out that it can be very difficult to get the
fluoroscein stain out of the carpet or fabric where the cat urinated. The
other point they made is that since all urine fluoresces under UV light you
need to first check previous urine stains before feeding the strips so you
can recognize the difference between normal urine and 'fluorescein urine'.
The behaviourists giving the lecture were recommending videotaping as a
means of IDing the culprit. Just thought you might be interested.

J.


  #9  
Old January 29th 06, 05:57 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box


"J. dvm" wrote in message
.. .

"Phil P." wrote in message
ink.net...

To identify the culprit, ask your vet (or ophthalmologist) for some
fluorescein test strips. Cut the strips into tiny pieces and put them

into
a
#4 gelcap (available at any compounding pharmacy). Give one gelcap to

one
cat. If the inappropriate urine flouresces bright candy apple green

under
a
black light (available at Petsmart for ~$15), you've found the culprit

to
take to the vet.


Hi Phil,
I just attended a lecture a couple of days ago on inappropriate urination
and the two behaviourists giving the lecture said that this approach is
falling out of favour. Apparently the original researcher who put forth
this idea was using equine fluorescein strips which are 7-10 times more
concentrated then the strips used in small animal medicine. Therefore you
need to use at least 30-35 strips to get the effect obtained in the

original
paper.


Hi J,


Thanks! I didn't know that. I didn't even know there was a difference!
I've always gotten my fluorescein strips from my human ophthalmologist-
which seem to work. Maybe they're a little more concentrated than SA
strips. I can get about 5 or 6 strips into a #3 gelcap and a little less
into a #4. You'd need a #000 gelcap to fit 30 strips! I don't think a cat's
esophagus is wide enough for a #000!



Also it turns out that it can be very difficult to get the
fluoroscein stain out of the carpet or fabric where the cat urinated.



That's true. But it depends on the type of carpet, too. Also, many people
get very frustrated over inappropriate urination and sometimes resort to
drastic measures. If I was in the same situation- I would rather live with
a stain than in house that wreaked of urine odor. But your point is well
taken.


The
other point they made is that since all urine fluoresces under UV light

you
need to first check previous urine stains before feeding the strips so you
can recognize the difference between normal urine and 'fluorescein urine'.



That's why I suggested that the OP to look at normal urine under the
blacklight first. The blacklight is also good for finding other spots where
the cat(s) have urinated.


The behaviourists giving the lecture were recommending videotaping as a
means of IDing the culprit. Just thought you might be interested.


I've thought about that.. You would need a vidcam with a motion-activated
feature. I have a few Linksys wireless video internet cameras that I use to
monitor cats at the shelter from home- or anywhere else. Each camera has its
own built-in stand-alone web server and URL and connects wirelessly to any
wireless router so you can watch real-time streaming video from any computer
that's connected to the internet. The camera records either continious,
scheduled or motion-activated. They run about $200- cheaper than replacing a
carpet! Here's what it looks like.

http://www.maxshouse.com/Equipment/wireless_vidcam.jpg

Thanks for the info.

Phil

PS: What did you think of labwork?



  #10  
Old January 29th 06, 07:11 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav,alt.cats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Advice on cat who urinates outside litter box

Hey all,
I want to thank all of you for replying to my message. I've learned a
lot! Of course, I'm really hoping this problem is behavioral, however
you all have put the fear of god in me (in a good way!) that there
might be something more serious going on with one of them. So, I added
another litter box to the house today ... right next to the original
one. They've clearly explored the new one, however they've yet to use
it, instead opting to use the original one. Maybe it's hard to teach
old cats new tricks?

In the meantime I'll be taking them in to the vet to get checked out.
They're all due for their shots anyway. I'll start with the one I
think is most likely the culprit and go from there (it gets expensive
all at once, doesn't it).

I forgot to mention in my original post that simply closing the closet
door is unfortunately not an option. When I bought the place I had the
door taken down and put into my storage room as I just didn't see the
need to have to open and close the door plus when the door is open it
gets in the way. That's why I'd have to close off the whole bedroom as
opposed to just the closet. I'm afraid of a couple of things (which
have been pointed out by other contributors to this thread) : 1. that
if I deny them access to the closet then they'll take to urinating on a
bed or the couch. Obviously it's not easy to put a mattress in the
closet. 2. That maybe it was started by one and then the others
smelled it and thought they could join in the fun.

I thought the idea of using the flourescent strips was a great idea
until another poster stated some concerns he(?) had heard about at a
lecture. I think talking to the vet (who deals only with cats) is a
good first move. In the meantime, I'll hope they take to the
additional litter box and I'll continue to lock them out of my bedroom
when I'm at least not here.

Thanks again, all, to replying to my post. I hope to get this taken
care of for their sakes. My cats are Daisy, Josie, and Butterball, and
they're the best girlies I could have hoped for! :-)

Thanks!

 




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