when is enough, enough

I know most here will condemn me for suggesting it but I just can't
keep throwing money away on our cat Andy.

In summer 2002 Andy was diagnosed with diabetes. The total costs in
two months was $1,600.00. The vet still wanted us to bring him in
every two weeks at $200.00 a crack for day long blood sugar tests.
This would end when they determined the insulin level was right.
However other costs such as expensive food, and the problem of having
other cats that try to eat this expensive food. One good thing Andy is
so overwieght he cannot get up to the other cats food dish. When he
wants to eat he incesantly meows until we come and pick him up and put
him on a counter and open the container with his food. Another thing
is the insulin, a minor cost in the sceme of things.

I accepted this money loss, because I do feel a commitment to our
animals. However, this past May a urinary tract infection and blockage
occurred. That ended up costing us another $1,200.00. The vet then
said she cannot guranty this won't happen again frequently. Before we
left the vet they said we were over due for the diabetes screening
test, and should do one as soon as Andy revovers fully.

We were going to call the vet Monday to schedule that test. It is
Saturday night at 11:00 I catch Andy trying to pee on the carpet.
(another blockage) I know we should rush out to the emergency vet, but
I decided to wait until morning (it is now almost 1:00am) and see what
the night brings. He may well be dead, have I not done more than most?
am I evil?
When is the point when enough is enough?

in article ,
at wrote on 7/13/03 10:03 AM:

Caliban wrote:

For me, I'd start thinking about (1) how
much Andy was suffering

Andy's suffering is because of an incompetent vet and if changes are
made he can have a good quality of life. I have already emailed the OP
regarding this.

(2) how many cats I could save down at
the shelter with the money I was
expending on a current but sadly very sick
cat.

This is really despicable of you to consider a cat disposable and
unworthy of care because of a money issue, especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which make it clear that the vet has
failed miserably in helping the OP manage his cat's diabetes and UTI's.
Part of the responsibility of having a pet is dealing with the cost of
health care. Your logic is flawed because there is NO guarantee that the
"shelter" cats wouldn't end up developing serious health issues that
require even greater cost. I also doubt that the OP would be interested
in adopting all those shelter cats that the cost of caring for his
diabetic cat might pay for. This cat needs a new vet and a better plan
to manage his diabetes, not death.


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22


I agree with this post.

Karen

in article ,
at wrote on 7/13/03 10:03 AM:

Caliban wrote:

For me, I'd start thinking about (1) how
much Andy was suffering

Andy's suffering is because of an incompetent vet and if changes are
made he can have a good quality of life. I have already emailed the OP
regarding this.

(2) how many cats I could save down at
the shelter with the money I was
expending on a current but sadly very sick
cat.

This is really despicable of you to consider a cat disposable and
unworthy of care because of a money issue, especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which make it clear that the vet has
failed miserably in helping the OP manage his cat's diabetes and UTI's.
Part of the responsibility of having a pet is dealing with the cost of
health care. Your logic is flawed because there is NO guarantee that the
"shelter" cats wouldn't end up developing serious health issues that
require even greater cost. I also doubt that the OP would be interested
in adopting all those shelter cats that the cost of caring for his
diabetic cat might pay for. This cat needs a new vet and a better plan
to manage his diabetes, not death.


Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22


I agree with this post.

Karen

wrote
Caliban wrote:
snip
(2) how many cats I could save down at
the shelter with the money I was
expending on a current but sadly very sick
cat.

This is really despicable of you to consider a cat disposable and
unworthy of care because of a money issue,

Do you spend all your money saving cats?

If not, your hypocrisy is despicable.

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.

especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which make it clear that the vet has
failed miserably in helping the OP manage his cat's diabetes and UTI's.

You've never seen this cat. No one can know from this kind of distance
whether the vet has failed miserably or not. I think it's awful that you
would slander a perfect stranger (this vet) with hardly any relevant facts
at all

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

Caliban wrote:

Do you spend all your money saving cats?

Minus the rent, car payment, and occasional treat for myself, yes.

If not, your hypocrisy is despicable.

No hypocrisy here.

I think it's important to face the reality
that there are very real financial limits to
how much good a person can do.

I don't disagree, but what you seemed to have failed to notice (or maybe
you just didn't because of lack of experience) is that there are a lot
of things in this situation that should be different and can result in
eliminating a lot of cost.

especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which
make it clear that the vet has failed
miserably in helping the OP manage his
cat's diabetes and UTI's.

You've never seen this cat. No one can
know from this kind of distance whether
the vet has failed miserably or not.

A vet that would allow a cat that has already suffered a UTI and
blockage to remain on a dry food diet has FAILED the cat. A vet that did
not set up a plan for an OBESE diabetic cat to lose weight, and who has
not offered the client any help with learning to monitor blood sugar
levels at home and instead wants $200 every few weeks to do it in the
clinic has FAILED the cat. The cost the OP cited is astronomical and it
is clear that this vet is soaking him for a lot of unnecessary things.

I think it's awful that you would slander a
perfect stranger (this vet) with hardly any
relevant facts at all

There was no slander and there were enough relevant facts for me to know
that the OP needs a better vet.

If you have a problem with having limits
to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is
people recommending giving up on a cat that has very treatable issues
that don't necessarily require a huge financial sacrifice. The extensive
costs incurred in this situation are directly related to the vet's
failure to properly treat, not the cat, and a lot of it could have been
avoided.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Caliban wrote:

Do you spend all your money saving cats?

Minus the rent, car payment, and occasional treat for myself, yes.

If not, your hypocrisy is despicable.

No hypocrisy here.

I think it's important to face the reality
that there are very real financial limits to
how much good a person can do.

I don't disagree, but what you seemed to have failed to notice (or maybe
you just didn't because of lack of experience) is that there are a lot
of things in this situation that should be different and can result in
eliminating a lot of cost.

especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which
make it clear that the vet has failed
miserably in helping the OP manage his
cat's diabetes and UTI's.

You've never seen this cat. No one can
know from this kind of distance whether
the vet has failed miserably or not.

A vet that would allow a cat that has already suffered a UTI and
blockage to remain on a dry food diet has FAILED the cat. A vet that did
not set up a plan for an OBESE diabetic cat to lose weight, and who has
not offered the client any help with learning to monitor blood sugar
levels at home and instead wants $200 every few weeks to do it in the
clinic has FAILED the cat. The cost the OP cited is astronomical and it
is clear that this vet is soaking him for a lot of unnecessary things.

I think it's awful that you would slander a
perfect stranger (this vet) with hardly any
relevant facts at all

There was no slander and there were enough relevant facts for me to know
that the OP needs a better vet.

If you have a problem with having limits
to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is
people recommending giving up on a cat that has very treatable issues
that don't necessarily require a huge financial sacrifice. The extensive
costs incurred in this situation are directly related to the vet's
failure to properly treat, not the cat, and a lot of it could have been
avoided.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Caliban wrote:

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.

And they should do good with the cats they already own first. After all
they took them in so those cats are their responsibility. I honestly think
if we could get a lot more people to think that way we'd have less of a
problem homing cats. A lot of times the idea of them being disposable and
you can just get another cat cheaper helps with people just giving cats
back to the shelter.

A pet is a responsibility for life, not just a money figure.

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

I understand that sometimes people can't afford care or even the
consideration of what life left the cat has and how good it would be
compared to how much cost it would be to try to give that amount/quality
of life (for example, "I don't have much money. This cat is going to cost
me 400 dollars to maybe save her/him, no guarentee, and she's 17 years
old."). It sux bigtime, but I can understand it. Sometimes the money just
isn't there.

But, I don't suscribe to the because you can save this many cats with
that money is justification to just put the cat to sleep. That's a
different arguement entirely. That's not I can't afford the care, that
is, the cat is disposable and I can just get another one (or two or
three). Your first responsibility is with the cat you took in for care,
not other cats you haven't agreed to care for yet. That should be what is
focused on, not how many other cats could be adopted with the money.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Caliban wrote:

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.

And they should do good with the cats they already own first. After all
they took them in so those cats are their responsibility. I honestly think
if we could get a lot more people to think that way we'd have less of a
problem homing cats. A lot of times the idea of them being disposable and
you can just get another cat cheaper helps with people just giving cats
back to the shelter.

A pet is a responsibility for life, not just a money figure.

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

I understand that sometimes people can't afford care or even the
consideration of what life left the cat has and how good it would be
compared to how much cost it would be to try to give that amount/quality
of life (for example, "I don't have much money. This cat is going to cost
me 400 dollars to maybe save her/him, no guarentee, and she's 17 years
old."). It sux bigtime, but I can understand it. Sometimes the money just
isn't there.

But, I don't suscribe to the because you can save this many cats with
that money is justification to just put the cat to sleep. That's a
different arguement entirely. That's not I can't afford the care, that
is, the cat is disposable and I can just get another one (or two or
three). Your first responsibility is with the cat you took in for care,
not other cats you haven't agreed to care for yet. That should be what is
focused on, not how many other cats could be adopted with the money.

Alice

--
The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren't
worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes 'em testy. ...Bev
|\ _,,,---,,_ Tigress
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat by Felix Lee.

wrote
Caliban wrote:
snip
(2) how many cats I could save down at
the shelter with the money I was
expending on a current but sadly very sick
cat.

This is really despicable of you to consider a cat disposable and
unworthy of care because of a money issue,

Do you spend all your money saving cats?

If not, your hypocrisy is despicable.

I think it's important to face the reality that there are very real
financial limits to how much good a person can do.

especially considering the
circumstances the OP described which make it clear that the vet has
failed miserably in helping the OP manage his cat's diabetes and UTI's.

You've never seen this cat. No one can know from this kind of distance
whether the vet has failed miserably or not. I think it's awful that you
would slander a perfect stranger (this vet) with hardly any relevant facts
at all

If you have a problem with having limits to how much one can spend to save a
cat's life, then welcome to the real world.

Karen wrote:
The costs are out of bounds. Also for the
blockage. My cat had a blockage and after
three days of treatment it was more like
400 dollars (and that was an emergency
vet, not my regular) not 1200. The OP's
vet is exhorbitant.

I totally agree. I have had two instances in the last year dealing with
blocked cats. One belongs to a friend of mine who is legally blind and
cannot drive. She called me up scared because Buster Brown was lying on
the floor and unable to get up. I rushed her and her kitty to the ER at
about 11 at night and it turned out he was blocked. The cost to treat,
which is more expensive than a regular vet, was $500. He is now on a
strictly canned diet and doing very well with no reoccurences.

The second incident was a cat I was petsitting over Christmas. He had a
UTI right before the owner left so I was watching the litterbox like a
hawk and counting his pee clumps and looking at how big they were. After
12 hours of nothing I brought him into the vet and sure enough he was
blocked. He stayed at the clinic for three days (over the Christmas
holiday) and had to be catheterized twice during that time. The cost was
a little over $600.

Megan



"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray