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  #11  
Old August 1st 03, 09:58 PM
Dooies B.B
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"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat, she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.




  #12  
Old August 1st 03, 10:13 PM
Dooies B.B
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"bewtifulfreak" wrote in message
...
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Regardless of the choice I make about her life, I do plan to take her to

the
vets fairly soon, to once again get her checked over.


Well, I think this will help you make your decision, as the vet should be
able to give you a reasonable idea of just how much discomfort she is in,

if
any.


I love her to bits, and the thought of going up stairs and not seeing

her
there is difficult. However my family had a habit of prolonging animals
suffering in order to gain more time with the pet, and I am very

conscious
of not allowing my need to be with an animal overrid an animals best
interest. Hense I'm looking for advice


I think that's very admirable. I know it's a difficult situation;
regardless of whether someone we love is nearly gone, or just getting

older,
we can't help but remember them how they were and feel a little sad that
things have changed so much. But I think you won't be able to make an
informed choice for your kitty until you get some input from the vet,
especially if she's not very obvious about her pain. I hope the vet is

able
to treat any of her health problems after all, and that she can have a bit
more time with you in comfort, but in any case, please keep us informed.

All the Best,
Ann




Thanks for your input. I'm gonna try and get her an appointment next week,
it seems the sooner the better


  #13  
Old August 1st 03, 10:29 PM
Karen Chuplis
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"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I took her to the vets about 8 months ago and due to her drinking lots
| more and stuff it was suggested that she did have mild kidney

problems,

"Mild" is a relative term. You should know that kidneys normally have
massive redundancy: there are *no* clinical signs of renal failure until
75% of kidney function has already been lost.

| but it was also suggested that at her age perhaps it would be better
| not to treat her.

This is complete nonsense. Whilst not curable, kidney failure is far
from untreatable. Please see:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

If your vet doesn't like the idea of a hydration regime (subcutaenous
fluids, done at home), then you should seek another vet for a second
opinion.

Eight months is definitely too long a gap between checkups for a cat
with kidney troubles. You should have a full blood panel done to see
where her numbers are.

| I just find it difficult to watch her slowly stop existing.

You do realize, I hope, that it may not just be her arthritis that is
troubling her at this point? If she has kidney trouble, the toxins will
be building up in her blood, causing her to feel nauseous and tired.

| The problem really for me is just not knowing how much she is

suffering.

If there were a way to make her feel better, would you go for it?

If you're willing to answer yes, then please take her to a vet who knows
how to *treat* old cats, rather than one who merely commiserates.


Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated

serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other

health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that

the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat,

she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been

for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.



I think Arjun is very unhappy with your vet. His frustration may fall into
terse terms. How would you know? Most people trust there vet and I'm very
sorry yours seems to not be up on this as Katie certainly would feel better
by now. From everything people have written here, their cats do not fine
fluids traumatic. I've watched my cats receive fluids for fever or
dehydration and they do not seem traumatized. I'd sure give it a shot.

Karen



  #14  
Old August 1st 03, 10:33 PM
Cathy Friedmann
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Of course I would try and make her feel better. I have acted under the
advisement of my vet, and it seems I have made a mistake which I will
attempt to sort out. However if the treatment itself is trumatic, and will
not result in a marked improvement and may well need to be repeated

serveral
times, then I do wonder if it is the right choice forcing it on an animal
who can't understand what is happening, and who may well have other

health
concerns that already impeed her happiness in day to day life.


Subcutaneous fluids treatment (often used for cats in renal failure) is not
traumatic. It may *look* more so to a person who's never seen sub-Q fluids
given, or who has never given them to their pet at home - since a needle is
involved. But once you see a vet do it & realize the cat is practically
oblivious to the whole deal, you realize it's basically a piece of cake. I
gave them to my CRF cat for months, & some people have done it for years, w/
no probs. As you've seen,m if a cat will eat a renal diet, all to the good,
& a Potassium supplement may also help if necessary. I also gave my cat
Procrit/Epogen injections for her CRF-related anemia - they were even easier
to give than the sub-Q fluids.

As the person who wrote the website (that I - & as it turned out, also Arjun
Ray - provided; well, it really is an excellent site!) discovered, treatment
for CRF in the UK - for some reason - is not nearly as prevalent & advised
by vets as it in the in US.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon

I have researched the website and it seems that Katie is almost certainly
suffering from some Kidney problems. And yes I am aware that her back
problems are not likely to be the only thing causing her problems.

I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based on
information given to me from a trusted person. Whist I realise now that

the
choices I have made up to the point may have adversely affected my cat,

she
is well loved, and it was not out of choice. My concern has always been

for
the welfare of my animals, and not of cost or anything else.






  #15  
Old August 1st 03, 11:03 PM
Gail
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She still has quality of life for a 15 year old. She does what most older
cats do. I would definitely not euthanize her.
Gail
"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks, toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort from her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her

increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still comes

down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided they

wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so

rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter end is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.




  #16  
Old August 1st 03, 11:22 PM
Mira
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Default

On 1 Aug 2003 16:29:04 -0500, "Karen Chuplis"
wrote:



From everything people have written here, their cats do not fine
fluids traumatic.


I imagine you are speaking of subcutaneous fluids as opposed to
intravenous? In any case, this depends on the cat. My 18-year-old
growled and shrieked when the vet put the IV in and when they took it
out. She was very vocal and prone to panic at little things (she was
not very bright, God bless her!) anyway. Conversely, one of my current
cats is such a stoic she makes not a single sound a the vet's, even
when they give her a shot.


I've watched my cats receive fluids for fever or
dehydration and they do not seem traumatized. I'd sure give it a shot.


I sure would too. It might help her. I think my old girl's IV hurt me
more than it did her, regardless of her shrieking.




Karen




  #17  
Old August 1st 03, 11:59 PM
Cathy Friedmann
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"Mira" wrote in message
s.com...
On 1 Aug 2003 16:29:04 -0500, "Karen Chuplis"
wrote:

From everything people have written here, their cats do not fine
fluids traumatic.


I imagine you are speaking of subcutaneous fluids as opposed to
intravenous?


I'm not Karen C. but...

Yes, fluids for CRF are subcutaneous, not intravenous.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon


In any case, this depends on the cat. My 18-year-old
growled and shrieked when the vet put the IV in and when they took it
out. She was very vocal and prone to panic at little things (she was
not very bright, God bless her!) anyway. Conversely, one of my current
cats is such a stoic she makes not a single sound a the vet's, even
when they give her a shot.


I've watched my cats receive fluids for fever or
dehydration and they do not seem traumatized. I'd sure give it a shot.


I sure would too. It might help her. I think my old girl's IV hurt me
more than it did her, regardless of her shrieking.




Karen






  #18  
Old August 2nd 03, 12:31 AM
Cathy Friedmann
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"Karen Chuplis" wrote in message
...
Some cats are drama queens We had a
cat that adored another cat of ours. He would follow her around and gaze

at
her in rapture. She did not like him. There were times I heard horrible
shrieking. I mean like a REAL fighting, not just normal stuff. I would

rush
into the room only to find my male 10 feet across the room from the

female,
but "he's LOOKING at me" seemed to be vocalized over dramatically.


Heh! ;-) This is the same scene I've come across umpteen times - w/
Demelza screeching her head off, at the top of her lungs, at Herrie. "He's
*looking* at me!!!"

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon


After my
first three heart attacks over it, I found it amusing that she could carry
on so. It just confused him.

Karen



  #19  
Old August 2nd 03, 12:47 AM
Arjun Ray
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Default

In , "Dooies B.B"
wrote:

| I do feel that you are attacking me merely for making a mistake based
| on information given to me from a trusted person.

I'm sorry, I wasn't attacking you. As Karen says, I'm very unhappy with
your vet. You have been given rather poor advice to say the least. I
also got the distinct impression that you had given up - based obviously
on the information (or lack of it) from the vet.

To some extent, I speak from personal experience. I have a CRF cat.
(His case is somewhat different in that he isn't old - only 5 - but
that's inessential.) I trusted (and liked) a vet until the day I found
her giving a prognosis that I knew was wrong. I knew because in the
interim, I had researched the subject. My cat needed fluids immediately
but she didn't think so. Basically, her heart wasn't in the fight for
my cat's life.

So I changed vets. I have stopped going to the previous vet, and I
ignore all the reminders and cards she sends.

I know it's hard to turn away from a trusted person, but I view it this
way: my first loyalty is to my cat, not the vet.

  #20  
Old August 2nd 03, 01:02 AM
Alison
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Default



"Dooies B.B" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry to cross post but I have a bit of a dilema.

My cat is now 15 and a half, and although she still eats, drinks,

toilets,
and sleeps, she does little else. I know she has some discomfort

from her
lower back, and probably kidney problems. Other than that and her

increased
laziness she seems quite happy, purrs when I go to see her, still

comes down
stairs when she wants more food (I have 3 cats, and they decided

they wanted
to divide themselves so Katie got the upstairs, and Gizmo and betsy

the
downstairs), she doesn't come and see me in bed any more and has no

desire
to go outside (even though she used to go out days at a time).

I realise this is just old age and everyone slows down, but I'm

wondering
whether I should consider taking her to be put down in a month or so

rather
than forcing her to go on living when basically she doesn't live the

most
active of lives, and its not that full of interest. I try and spend

time
with her, but I just wonder if forcing her to live on to the bitter

end is
the kindest thing to do.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.



Have you taken your cat to the vet for a check up and a blood panel
, if not why are you considering putting her to sleep ? You don't
have a dilema until you find out your cat has something your vet
can't treat .
Alison



 




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