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Cat is terrified to go outdoors - UPDATE



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 15th 05, 02:19 PM
LC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cat is terrified to go outdoors - UPDATE

This poor little thing has had a litany of tests over the years, she
definitely has allergies, she has had every treatement to rule out this and
that over the years - I don't remember most of them, a skin biopsy which
took a lump out of her lovely face which proved inconclusive- even took her
many many times to the Vet of the Year here in Ireland (very long drives
over several months). Kit has had the best of treatment but in the end all
vets agree the picking fur off her face is psychological. We could go
further with the allergy testing, but I refuse to put her through any more
probing for a result that will be at best 40% accurate. She will not
co-operate with any food allergy trials, preferring to starve than eat cat
food. This new behaviour now with what I presume is the result of a bee
sting, from the evidence, is only the latest to add to the catalogue.

Anyway, the news is better, kit now has been going out every night a bit
earlier, last night it was still bright when she went out ! 9pm, and now
comes back around midnight and lets me pet her to sleep on my bed. For the
last two days she has also worked up the courage for the morning shift, from
7:30 to 10am. Hubby does a stint of 'forced outdoors' work with her now
each day. The first day 1 minute, followed by 5 minutes same day, yesterday
he did18 minutes where we provide a barricade with a table and some cushions
to help her feel some protection. My husband also sits with her (her great
protector from dogs etc and her hero). She relaxed enough to take a sip of
milk and yesterday, he says she was about to fall asleep out there before I
called time. She is learning to walk, rather than run back into the house
when this little stint is over and amazingly not hide under the bed
afterwards other than the first minute first day. She has developed a
tendency to roll over much much more on a favourite mat or carpet if she
thinks there is any danger we will pick her up to take her out - very clever
! Knows we cannot resist petting her. Just a half an hour ago, after a
long sleep, she came downstairs by herself and looked for her food in the
normal spot before all this started (a first!)

And there are now 2 dead bees on my doorstep, something I have never seen
before, but I wonder if this was done by her, and could be a two-in-one i.e.
revenge on the bees combined with a gift for mum and dad who have taken care
of her so well for the last 10 days. I've had mice and birds as gifts
before but bees are new and seem to confirm the theory. Just hope it
isn't her as playing with bees is only likely to lead to further beestings !


Laura


"Alison" wrote in message
...
Hi Laura
,This is a very interesting case so to speak . It would be good if you
could get to see the behaviourist . They usually come to your house
but perhaps the one your vet recommended lives too far away.
What tests have your vet done? Sometimes "behaviour" problems can
have a medical cause.
Allergies can cause a cat to chew its fur.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...granuloma.html
Alison


--"LC" wrote in message
...
Thank you all so very much for your different ideas and thoughts.
Late last night kitty left the house after 6 days. under cover of
darkness......there were no flies buzzing around late at night and

as she
asked to go out for the umpteenth time, I decided to let her, sure

that she
would run back in after a few seconds.....but the little madam went

out
slowly at first, at 12:30am and did not return until 5:25 am, except

to come
back occasionally and say hello, accept a little tuna, but not to

come in.
We tried chasing her many times to come back in (a game where she

usually
eventually concedes) but she was happy enjoying a good time after

many days
of being cooped up and in the end we let her play, it was a warm

night and
we were just so relieved she went out and seemed happy and

comfortable with
it....little sexy catwalk parading up and down

confidently......simply
amazing ! Much better than the cowering, terrified little scrap of

fur she
was earlier. We took the decision then, as she had taken that

first huge
step, not to freak her out any further today by taking her to the

vet
(extremely traumatic experience for kitty). I saw the vet today

alone
without kit - the vet agreed to see me without her as she is very

well
acquainted with kitty, in fact Kitty represents her particular pet

subject,
its also hard to forget kit, she is so compelling and adorable.

Where
to begin ?

She thinks its highly likely that the leg is probably something

kitty did to
herself (as my husband has said also for a while) since kitty is

prone to
picking out her own fur, regularly taking out the third eyelid etc.

although
the fur removal has been mostly confined to the head area and

specifically
the eyes. Kit has been doing very well with this problem for the

last 12
months though, at least I thought she had. She thinks that it is

most
likely a bee sting or indeed with kit, it could be something she

dreamed
although considering the force of kit's reaction, she believes it is

a real
experience rather than an imaginary one. My concern, as was the

vets, is
how to calm her down sufficiently to allow her to begin to move on.

We had
the time to properly discuss kits full background as she was not

there
stressed, wanting to go home NOW, all strange problems related to

the fact
that she is hypersenstive, highly intelligent, highly strung, the

vet warned
me that she is highly manipulative etc etc. a whole lot of other

highlys and
to a great extent I have created a monster by pandering to her every

whim.
(Yes, we have built our lives around kitty - she is super-loved).

All of
these things I already knew and love kitty for. We had a long
discussion where we likened her to a person with Asperger's Syndrome

to try
to relate to make a human comparison and the vet said that this is a

case
where I cannot treat her as you would another cat. I needed to

encourage
her and not pander too much too any new demands, for example, only

feeding
her upstairs for the last 6 days as she refused to come downstairs

to
eat.....basically if I know she can come downstairs (she can) then

maintain
her normal routine as much as possible, this will help relax her as

she
loves routine - and she really does !! Kit has eaten much cream

and
chicken downstairs this evening - always susceptible to bribes, kit
understands the game, so long as she feels safe. Kit wanted to

go out
again this morning first thing (7:30am) skipped down to the door,

saw a
beautiful sunny day and her daughter (the cat next door) waiting on

the
doorstep to play with her, but this time she also saw a fly on the

doorstep.
This had the by now familiar reaction- she let out a simple whimper

that
says "I'm terrified" and retreated at fantastic speed upstairs to

hide under
a bed. This time when I looked under the bed she had not flopped

out
flat in depressed state, and back as far as possible, instead she

was
sitting up, only halfway back and still looking lucid and

bright-eyed and
interested. She hopped straight out for me with just talking to

her, and
went immediately to an upstairs window so the confidence is finally
building. All good signs. We have waited until 6pm to bring her
downstairs today, in the meantime I pampered her upstairs and let

her sleep
a lot....it took 3 times of collecting her and bringing her down to

get her
comfortable enough to stay downstairs and then she settled magically

back to
her favourite window complete with comfy cushion. Tonight she has

asked
to go out again, at 10:00pm when darkness hit, and she is still out

playing
right now. She refuses to come in to this moment - 00:45 and I

suspect I
am in for another long night. For now, I don't care, it is worth it

to see
that spark in her eyes and body language.

So, for now, she will have to be a night cat when the flies go to

sleep and
the buzzing stops. In winter there will not be so many flies around

and I
hope in time she conquers her fear. I am sure she will with

coaxing, love
and where necessary, bribery. Meantime, we will put her on

Prozac to
help her calm down (something which I was supposed to do some time

ago in
relation to previous behaviours I had not associated with this.) I

held
off before as I was afraid of her becoming addicted, side-effects,

how to
wean her off etc, but the vet told me it is slightly diff. for cats

in terms
of addiction, I will watch closely for any adverse reaction, and we

will
make it a short term affair, as in 8-10 weeks to see the effects and
reaction. The vet was not entirely hopeful she will overcome this

one
completely, due to the personality involved, but I remain confident

in my
little kit, she is amazing. I respect this vet a lot but I also

know
something of determination and willpower and kit's will to go out is

STRONG.
She will overcome. The vet also gave me the name of a cat

behaviour
specialist whom she says would be fascinated to meet with my kit and

try to
understand her and help her, so we may go there in the future, not

for now,
not until kit is more sure of herself when there are blue daylit

skies
about.

Thank you all so much for your responses.

Laura



c



  #2  
Old July 15th 05, 10:09 PM
Alison
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"LC" wrote in message
...
This poor little thing has had a litany of tests over the years, she
definitely has allergies, she has had every treatement to rule out

this and
that over the years - I don't remember most of them, a skin biopsy

which
took a lump out of her lovely face which proved inconclusive- even

took her
many many times to the Vet of the Year here in Ireland (very long

drives
over several months). Kit has had the best of treatment but in the

end all
vets agree the picking fur off her face is psychological. We could

go
further with the allergy testing, but I refuse to put her through

any more
probing for a result that will be at best 40% accurate. She will

not
co-operate with any food allergy trials, preferring to starve than

eat cat
food. This new behaviour now with what I presume is the result of a

bee
sting, from the evidence, is only the latest to add to the

catalogue.


Hi Laura,
I read your other post about the cortisone injections. Kim gets
itchy and scratches her face and sometimes she gets a swollen bottom
lip (Eos. granuloma) . The vets gives her an Depo Medrone V injection
and it clears up.
I don't understand why your vet think that scratching her face is
psychological. If she is scratching her face, she's probably itchy.
The most commonist cause of scratching in cats is insect bites such as
fleas. It's the saliva in the flea bite that causes the reaction and
it can take only one bite to cause a severe reaction. She hid under
the bed and was lethergic , this can happen when a cat has had a shock
but I wonder if it was an allergic reaction to the bee sting.

I'm glad to hear she is overcoming her fear of going outside. How
does she get on with the other cats and her daughter? I'd be
interested to know if her daughter has the same personality as her.
Alison







  #3  
Old July 16th 05, 12:41 PM
LC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alison, thank you for your thoughts and the info.....you could well be right
with the allergic reaction to the beesting. I will mull this over...I
guess we never really will know what happened this time because I did not
want to take the terrified little scrap out of the house to the vet to freak
her out any further but my money is on beesting. Every day now she makes
more progress, although right now she is fast alseep - she went out last
night at 8:30pm, but would not come in until 6am. I am exhausted as I woke
up and went out to look for her at 1am, 2am, 4am and finally 6am when she
stretched up as tall as she could on two paws and practically made love to
my kitchen door in an effort to get it to open, in the cutest "I'm starving"
display I have ever seen from her. Very loud erps when the fridge door
opened. I think that is her longest stint ever outdoors without food, she
normally snacks every couple of hours, not a big eater in one sitting.

Getting on with other cats
That's very simple. She absolutely HATES them with a vengeance, apart from
her daughter. She plays with her daughter and it is as if our cat 'owns'
the territory of both our house and the house next door where her daughter
lives, and gives her daughter protection. She will happily chase away ANY
Tom cat, despite that she is actually a very small girl cat and normally
toms will not attack females, sis leaves no doubt - this is mine - paws off.
We leave her at a country cattery when we go away for a week or two, and the
man there always jokes when we return....one thing is for certain, she
really doesn't like other cats.....i.e. no cat particularly likes other
cats, except perhaps two siblings raised together, but she is rather extreme
in this regard. He has diff. cats in and out of there every week but she
stands out in this matter. Once, as we were leaving her off, she even went
up to the wire mesh divide between their little gardens, and she punched
another cat in the face who was admiring her as a new arrival - I was so
embarrassed. After her last visit earlier this year something
changed.....it is like she finally became a little more used to having other
cats around....she no longer arches her back into a triangle if another cat
so much as dares to put a paw within 3 houses of our garden, used to launch
war cries and demand to be let out instantly to deal with the 'intruder'.
Now can even continue eating, while simply keeping a close eye that they do
not enter sacred territory (her garden). Seems to be getting a little more
mature in that regard, but hatred with a passion of other cats before.
Very, very upsetting to have them come around her area.


Personality
As for personality comparisons with her daughter, they are nothing at all
like each other. My cat's name is sister, I will call her daughter 'Apple'
here, as 'Apple' is not my cat. Sister is very gentle and friendly, Apple
tries to be friendly but she bites and scrapes if you pet her despite that
she wanted and invited you to pet her, even put her claws right through my
husband's fingers and out the other side (ouch !!!) some years ago, when she
took a fright mid-petting. Our 80 year old neighbours call Sister "the
good cat" and Apple "the bad cat", so that is an independent person's views
of the two personalities who visit them from time to time. Sis is
super-intelligent, Apple is not. I guess this means that sis knows how to
ingratiate herself better with people - she plays a blinder with my parents
anyways...and she succeeded to get the people next door to shelter her when
she was pregnant and then for us to take her when she wanted to leave home.
Sister lived on the streets while pregnant before she found the house next
door as a shelter to give birth, Apple (one of four of her kittens) was born
in the house next door where she now lives as an only cat for the past 5
years. Sister is a fantastic little hunter, but Apple is useless, despite
all the lessons that Sister gave her as we watched quietly from an upstairs
window. Sister left home to live here with us, several months after her
kittens were born, Apple tried to follow her mom but Sister does not allow
her in the house, only in the garden. Sister has all the signs of chronic
herpes, Apple, fortunately, has none. (Sister is kept indoors and babysat
when she flares up with this, despite this making her depressed to be stuck
indoors.) Sister had pneumonia and almost died shortly after giving birth
to the kittens (probably when the chronic herpes developed). Apple appears
to have had more behavioural problems in settling with her family i.e.
relieving herself on their carpet, whereas we have never had any such
problem with Sister....we can even take her kitty litter to my parent's
house when we visit and she accepts that is where the kitty litter is in
their house, so she is quite adaptable in that respect.) With the
scratching of her eyes, if sister has obvious symptoms, such as when you can
see odema in her eye, i.e. genuine itchiness which I treat with eyedrops
which contain antibiotic etc, I can tell her to stop scratching until the
cows come home, but she will not - she is genuinely itchy. However, 99
times out of 100, when there are no such symptoms present and I tell her to
stop scratching her eyes, with a simple kissing noise, she will stop
scratching immediately. (I have told more about behaviour than
personality because I do not know so much about the personality of the cat
next door - I try to avoid the cat as much as possible to be honest, as
Sister used to get jealous if we gave it attention and she does not want it
to come into our house, so I don't let it in any more. It is jealous of
Sister, it wants to be her and it wants to live in her home, it is like
having something stalk us constantly for access.) Their looks are also
different, Sister is pure black, every bit of her, her daughter is a tabby.
Any good ?

Laura

"Alison" wrote in message
...

"LC" wrote in message
...
This poor little thing has had a litany of tests over the years, she
definitely has allergies, she has had every treatement to rule out

this and
that over the years - I don't remember most of them, a skin biopsy

which
took a lump out of her lovely face which proved inconclusive- even

took her
many many times to the Vet of the Year here in Ireland (very long

drives
over several months). Kit has had the best of treatment but in the

end all
vets agree the picking fur off her face is psychological. We could

go
further with the allergy testing, but I refuse to put her through

any more
probing for a result that will be at best 40% accurate. She will

not
co-operate with any food allergy trials, preferring to starve than

eat cat
food. This new behaviour now with what I presume is the result of a

bee
sting, from the evidence, is only the latest to add to the

catalogue.


Hi Laura,
I read your other post about the cortisone injections. Kim gets
itchy and scratches her face and sometimes she gets a swollen bottom
lip (Eos. granuloma) . The vets gives her an Depo Medrone V injection
and it clears up.
I don't understand why your vet think that scratching her face is
psychological. If she is scratching her face, she's probably itchy.
The most commonist cause of scratching in cats is insect bites such as
fleas. It's the saliva in the flea bite that causes the reaction and
it can take only one bite to cause a severe reaction. She hid under
the bed and was lethergic , this can happen when a cat has had a shock
but I wonder if it was an allergic reaction to the bee sting.

I'm glad to hear she is overcoming her fear of going outside. How
does she get on with the other cats and her daughter? I'd be
interested to know if her daughter has the same personality as her.
Alison









  #4  
Old July 16th 05, 09:34 PM
Alison
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Laura,
Sounds like sister had a bad start in life but you have more than
made up for that.
My cat had a bad start too. She was a stray and she is also
aggressive to other cats and chases
them out of the garden.
Sister and Apple sound very different. I just wondered if the
daughter was like her mother
but obviously not so.
Do you think you will still go ahead and give her Prozac? To be
honest if she is getting over the shock
of what ever scared her, I don't think she would need it.
Alison


"LC" wrote in message
...
Alison, thank you for your thoughts and the info.....you could well

be right
with the allergic reaction to the beesting. I will mull this

over...I
guess we never really will know what happened this time because I

did not
want to take the terrified little scrap out of the house to the vet

to freak
her out any further but my money is on beesting. Every day now she

makes
more progress, although right now she is fast alseep - she went out

last
night at 8:30pm, but would not come in until 6am. I am exhausted as

I woke
up and went out to look for her at 1am, 2am, 4am and finally 6am

when she
stretched up as tall as she could on two paws and practically made

love to
my kitchen door in an effort to get it to open, in the cutest "I'm

starving"
display I have ever seen from her. Very loud erps when the fridge

door
opened. I think that is her longest stint ever outdoors without

food, she
normally snacks every couple of hours, not a big eater in one

sitting.

Getting on with other cats
That's very simple. She absolutely HATES them with a vengeance,

apart from
her daughter. She plays with her daughter and it is as if our cat

'owns'
the territory of both our house and the house next door where her

daughter
lives, and gives her daughter protection. She will happily chase

away ANY
Tom cat, despite that she is actually a very small girl cat and

normally
toms will not attack females, sis leaves no doubt - this is mine -

paws off.
We leave her at a country cattery when we go away for a week or two,

and the
man there always jokes when we return....one thing is for certain,

she
really doesn't like other cats.....i.e. no cat particularly likes

other
cats, except perhaps two siblings raised together, but she is rather

extreme
in this regard. He has diff. cats in and out of there every week

but she
stands out in this matter. Once, as we were leaving her off, she

even went
up to the wire mesh divide between their little gardens, and she

punched
another cat in the face who was admiring her as a new arrival - I

was so
embarrassed. After her last visit earlier this year something
changed.....it is like she finally became a little more used to

having other
cats around....she no longer arches her back into a triangle if

another cat
so much as dares to put a paw within 3 houses of our garden, used to

launch
war cries and demand to be let out instantly to deal with the

'intruder'.
Now can even continue eating, while simply keeping a close eye that

they do
not enter sacred territory (her garden). Seems to be getting a

little more
mature in that regard, but hatred with a passion of other cats

before.
Very, very upsetting to have them come around her area.


Personality
As for personality comparisons with her daughter, they are nothing

at all
like each other. My cat's name is sister, I will call her daughter

'Apple'
here, as 'Apple' is not my cat. Sister is very gentle and friendly,

Apple
tries to be friendly but she bites and scrapes if you pet her

despite that
she wanted and invited you to pet her, even put her claws right

through my
husband's fingers and out the other side (ouch !!!) some years ago,

when she
took a fright mid-petting. Our 80 year old neighbours call Sister

"the
good cat" and Apple "the bad cat", so that is an independent

person's views
of the two personalities who visit them from time to time. Sis is
super-intelligent, Apple is not. I guess this means that sis knows

how to
ingratiate herself better with people - she plays a blinder with my

parents
anyways...and she succeeded to get the people next door to shelter

her when
she was pregnant and then for us to take her when she wanted to

leave home.
Sister lived on the streets while pregnant before she found the

house next
door as a shelter to give birth, Apple (one of four of her kittens)

was born
in the house next door where she now lives as an only cat for the

past 5
years. Sister is a fantastic little hunter, but Apple is useless,

despite
all the lessons that Sister gave her as we watched quietly from an

upstairs
window. Sister left home to live here with us, several months after

her
kittens were born, Apple tried to follow her mom but Sister does not

allow
her in the house, only in the garden. Sister has all the signs of

chronic
herpes, Apple, fortunately, has none. (Sister is kept indoors and

babysat
when she flares up with this, despite this making her depressed to

be stuck
indoors.) Sister had pneumonia and almost died shortly after giving

birth
to the kittens (probably when the chronic herpes developed). Apple

appears
to have had more behavioural problems in settling with her family

i.e.
relieving herself on their carpet, whereas we have never had any

such
problem with Sister....we can even take her kitty litter to my

parent's
house when we visit and she accepts that is where the kitty litter

is in
their house, so she is quite adaptable in that respect.) With the
scratching of her eyes, if sister has obvious symptoms, such as when

you can
see odema in her eye, i.e. genuine itchiness which I treat with

eyedrops
which contain antibiotic etc, I can tell her to stop scratching

until the
cows come home, but she will not - she is genuinely itchy.

However, 99
times out of 100, when there are no such symptoms present and I tell

her to
stop scratching her eyes, with a simple kissing noise, she will stop
scratching immediately. (I have told more about behaviour than
personality because I do not know so much about the personality of

the cat
next door - I try to avoid the cat as much as possible to be honest,

as
Sister used to get jealous if we gave it attention and she does not

want it
to come into our house, so I don't let it in any more. It is

jealous of
Sister, it wants to be her and it wants to live in her home, it is

like
having something stalk us constantly for access.) Their looks are

also
different, Sister is pure black, every bit of her, her daughter is a

tabby.
Any good ?

Laura



  #5  
Old July 17th 05, 10:20 AM
LC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alison, I am smiling at the thought of your cat chasing away bigger cats
I think it is because once they have found a home that suits them very well,
they are literally prepared to defend it to the death if necessary - they
are not going to surrender it to any comers. Then the other cats see a
determined little hopping mad thing coming at them, and scarper rather than
take a chance. I bet you have a fantastic relationship with your cat.

No, I will definitely not give her that Prozac - she has made all this
wonderful progress without it. I gave her catnip the first few evenings
that she went out which someone suggested on here was a hallucinogenic and I
will use any tool I can that does not seem to have risks attached. Prozac
was when I was desperate and before she got the courage to do the morning
stints and it was breaking my heart to see her so distressed, wanting out
but not able to face it at the last second. Now she has voluntary morning
and evening stints, and is settling well during the 'forced' afternoon sun
stints.....She managed an hour yesterday and settled very well - even took a
few strolls down to the end of the back garden and back again. (V. brave
as lots of trees and buzzy things down there.) So, the Prozac will remain
locked away firmly - she doesn't need the added, very real, problems that
taking it may bring.

Thanks so much Alison for everything !

Laura

"Alison" wrote in message
...
Hi Laura,
Sounds like sister had a bad start in life but you have more than
made up for that.
My cat had a bad start too. She was a stray and she is also
aggressive to other cats and chases
them out of the garden.
Sister and Apple sound very different. I just wondered if the
daughter was like her mother
but obviously not so.
Do you think you will still go ahead and give her Prozac? To be
honest if she is getting over the shock
of what ever scared her, I don't think she would need it.
Alison


"LC" wrote in message
...
Alison, thank you for your thoughts and the info.....you could well

be right
with the allergic reaction to the beesting. I will mull this

over...I
guess we never really will know what happened this time because I

did not
want to take the terrified little scrap out of the house to the vet

to freak
her out any further but my money is on beesting. Every day now she

makes
more progress, although right now she is fast alseep - she went out

last
night at 8:30pm, but would not come in until 6am. I am exhausted as

I woke
up and went out to look for her at 1am, 2am, 4am and finally 6am

when she
stretched up as tall as she could on two paws and practically made

love to
my kitchen door in an effort to get it to open, in the cutest "I'm

starving"
display I have ever seen from her. Very loud erps when the fridge

door
opened. I think that is her longest stint ever outdoors without

food, she
normally snacks every couple of hours, not a big eater in one

sitting.

Getting on with other cats
That's very simple. She absolutely HATES them with a vengeance,

apart from
her daughter. She plays with her daughter and it is as if our cat

'owns'
the territory of both our house and the house next door where her

daughter
lives, and gives her daughter protection. She will happily chase

away ANY
Tom cat, despite that she is actually a very small girl cat and

normally
toms will not attack females, sis leaves no doubt - this is mine -

paws off.
We leave her at a country cattery when we go away for a week or two,

and the
man there always jokes when we return....one thing is for certain,

she
really doesn't like other cats.....i.e. no cat particularly likes

other
cats, except perhaps two siblings raised together, but she is rather

extreme
in this regard. He has diff. cats in and out of there every week

but she
stands out in this matter. Once, as we were leaving her off, she

even went
up to the wire mesh divide between their little gardens, and she

punched
another cat in the face who was admiring her as a new arrival - I

was so
embarrassed. After her last visit earlier this year something
changed.....it is like she finally became a little more used to

having other
cats around....she no longer arches her back into a triangle if

another cat
so much as dares to put a paw within 3 houses of our garden, used to

launch
war cries and demand to be let out instantly to deal with the

'intruder'.
Now can even continue eating, while simply keeping a close eye that

they do
not enter sacred territory (her garden). Seems to be getting a

little more
mature in that regard, but hatred with a passion of other cats

before.
Very, very upsetting to have them come around her area.


Personality
As for personality comparisons with her daughter, they are nothing

at all
like each other. My cat's name is sister, I will call her daughter

'Apple'
here, as 'Apple' is not my cat. Sister is very gentle and friendly,

Apple
tries to be friendly but she bites and scrapes if you pet her

despite that
she wanted and invited you to pet her, even put her claws right

through my
husband's fingers and out the other side (ouch !!!) some years ago,

when she
took a fright mid-petting. Our 80 year old neighbours call Sister

"the
good cat" and Apple "the bad cat", so that is an independent

person's views
of the two personalities who visit them from time to time. Sis is
super-intelligent, Apple is not. I guess this means that sis knows

how to
ingratiate herself better with people - she plays a blinder with my

parents
anyways...and she succeeded to get the people next door to shelter

her when
she was pregnant and then for us to take her when she wanted to

leave home.
Sister lived on the streets while pregnant before she found the

house next
door as a shelter to give birth, Apple (one of four of her kittens)

was born
in the house next door where she now lives as an only cat for the

past 5
years. Sister is a fantastic little hunter, but Apple is useless,

despite
all the lessons that Sister gave her as we watched quietly from an

upstairs
window. Sister left home to live here with us, several months after

her
kittens were born, Apple tried to follow her mom but Sister does not

allow
her in the house, only in the garden. Sister has all the signs of

chronic
herpes, Apple, fortunately, has none. (Sister is kept indoors and

babysat
when she flares up with this, despite this making her depressed to

be stuck
indoors.) Sister had pneumonia and almost died shortly after giving

birth
to the kittens (probably when the chronic herpes developed). Apple

appears
to have had more behavioural problems in settling with her family

i.e.
relieving herself on their carpet, whereas we have never had any

such
problem with Sister....we can even take her kitty litter to my

parent's
house when we visit and she accepts that is where the kitty litter

is in
their house, so she is quite adaptable in that respect.) With the
scratching of her eyes, if sister has obvious symptoms, such as when

you can
see odema in her eye, i.e. genuine itchiness which I treat with

eyedrops
which contain antibiotic etc, I can tell her to stop scratching

until the
cows come home, but she will not - she is genuinely itchy.

However, 99
times out of 100, when there are no such symptoms present and I tell

her to
stop scratching her eyes, with a simple kissing noise, she will stop
scratching immediately. (I have told more about behaviour than
personality because I do not know so much about the personality of

the cat
next door - I try to avoid the cat as much as possible to be honest,

as
Sister used to get jealous if we gave it attention and she does not

want it
to come into our house, so I don't let it in any more. It is

jealous of
Sister, it wants to be her and it wants to live in her home, it is

like
having something stalk us constantly for access.) Their looks are

also
different, Sister is pure black, every bit of her, her daughter is a

tabby.
Any good ?

Laura





  #6  
Old July 17th 05, 04:33 PM
Mary
external usenet poster
 
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Default


"LC" wrote in message
...
Alison, I am smiling at the thought of your cat chasing away bigger cats


I think it is because once they have found a home that suits them very

well,
they are literally prepared to defend it to the death if necessary - they
are not going to surrender it to any comers.


Actually it is nothing so romantic. Even if they live in the worst dump
imaginable, or are kept outside so that they are forced to defend
themselves as they are at Alisons, cats are territorial and so will
defend whatever they think is their territory.


  #7  
Old July 17th 05, 04:57 PM
Trish
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"Mary" wrote in message ...

"LC" wrote in message
...
Alison, I am smiling at the thought of your cat chasing away bigger cats


I think it is because once they have found a home that suits them very

well,
they are literally prepared to defend it to the death if necessary -

they
are not going to surrender it to any comers.


Actually it is nothing so romantic. Even if they live in the worst dump
imaginable, or are kept outside so that they are forced to defend
themselves as they are at Alisons, cats are territorial and so will
defend whatever they think is their territory.



That's very true, cats moreso than any other animal. Once they stake claim
to a place they will defend it to their death.

You may find this book interesting by Ashley Montaqu "Nature of Human
Aggression" It discusses the fight or flight syndrome and references varies
animals to support or disprove theories.


  #8  
Old July 17th 05, 06:03 PM
Alison
external usenet poster
 
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"Trish" wrote in message
...

"
That's very true, cats moreso than any other animal. Once they

stake claim
to a place they will defend it to their death.


That's not actually correct. Cats are very territorial and will
defend their home range but if an aggressor is too strong and
persistant then they will leave the area and move on.(flight) The
name of the game is survival: a cat need its territory to survive but
there's no point in fighting if it's going to end up badly hurt or
dead.

You may find this book interesting by Ashley Montaqu "Nature of

Human
Aggression" It discusses the fight or flight syndrome and references

varies
animals to support or disprove theories..


That's sounds a very interesting book. I'll have a look on
Amazon. Did he give the references he used to support his theory re
cats ?
Alison







  #9  
Old July 17th 05, 08:28 PM
Trish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alison" wrote in message
...
"Trish" wrote in message
...

"
That's very true, cats moreso than any other animal. Once they

stake claim
to a place they will defend it to their death.


That's not actually correct. Cats are very territorial and will
defend their home range but if an aggressor is too strong and
persistant then they will leave the area and move on.(flight) The
name of the game is survival: a cat need its territory to survive but
there's no point in fighting if it's going to end up badly hurt or
dead.

You may find this book interesting by Ashley Montaqu "Nature of

Human
Aggression" It discusses the fight or flight syndrome and references

varies
animals to support or disprove theories..


That's sounds a very interesting book. I'll have a look on
Amazon. Did he give the references he used to support his theory re
cats ?
Alison


If I remember correctly he did, its been a few years since I've read the
book. I wrote a presentation on the book for one of my human evolution
courses in university. It's easy reading, however it was written in the
60's and as times change so do theories.


  #10  
Old July 17th 05, 10:22 PM
Alison
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Trish" wrote in message
...

That's sounds a very interesting book. I'll have a look on

Amazon. Did he give the references he used to support his theory

re
cats ?
Alison


If I remember correctly he did, its been a few years since I've read

the
book. I wrote a presentation on the book for one of my human

evolution
courses in university. It's easy reading, however it was written in

the
60's and as times change so do theories..


I have to say I'm impressed. Did you enjoy the course? I had a quick
look on the internet and his theory is
that aggression is not a natural human drive , a sort of nature
verses nurture and enviroment ?
Knowledge about cat behaviour has come on leaps and bounds since
the time he wrote the book but
its true that cats are territorial and more than some other species.
There's also Freeze and Faff about (fiddle about) along side Flight
and Fight ( The fours F's ).

Did you have to read Desmond Morris's The Human Ape on your course?
He also wrote Cat Watching
which was light weight but I remember The Human Ape took the world by
storm, so to speak.

It's interesting that you (one)compare humans to animals when studying
humans. On animal behaviour courses you
compare animals to humans G Some advance courses you have to study
Thorndykes and BF Skinners works
and compare breed specific behaviour to Maslows ladder and whether
they can achieve self actualisation in a home enviroment .
Alison







 




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