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Animals do not "anticipate"



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 25th 06, 07:13 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 the Goober wrote:

dh pointed out:
On 21 Apr 2006 Goo wrote:

dh pointed out:


Their response is caused by their anticipation, Goober,

No, ****wit. Anticipation is a mental state that animals do not have.



Everything other than your absurd claims suggests that they do,


No, ****wit. Everything says they do NOT.


Now that you mention it, nothing does so far Goo.

YOU are projecting the way you "think" you would feel in that situation
onto the animals.



And that could change the behavior of the animals how?


Your projection wouldn't change their behavior at all,
****wit. It changes how it is interpreted, by you:
wrongly.


So what causes animals to change their behavior in a way that
clearly appears to be anticipation, if it's not anticipation Goo?

However, it's worth noting that a lot of what
you're calling their "behavior" is non-existent;


We're talking about the behavior that DOES exist--which is
WHY we're able to discuss it--you poor clueless Goober. What
causes the changes in behavior that DO exist, and that we are
discussing, GOO???

  #22  
Old April 27th 06, 02:57 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On 25 Apr 2006 Goo maundered:

dh asked AGAIN!!!:


So what causes animals to change their behavior in a way that
clearly appears to be anticipation?


No.


Yes Goo.

That's the wrong question. The correct question is, what
mental/emotional error are you making that makes you "think" it's
anticipation when it is not?


What do you think it is Goo?

Give it some thought,


What "is" it really Goo?

****wit, and get back to us. That's the question
you should think about,


Oh, okay. What do you think "is" the real cause, you poor
inept Goober?

****wit. Don't **** away time on some other
off-topic thing, ****wit.



However, it's worth noting that a lot of what
you're calling their "behavior" is non-existent;


We're talking about the behavior that DOES exist


It isn't settled what behavior "DOES" exist,


Let's stick with the bahavior which gives the clear appearance
of being the result of anticipation. What do you think *really*
causes it, Goo?

****wit. I guess maybe
you can add that to your list of topics to consider,


Providing an explanation for this example of your absurdity
should be put on the list of things you're too inept to be able
to do, now that you mention it Goo.

****wit: what behavior can we all agree exist,


I had a dog for a number of years. If I said: "Do you want to go
for a walk." he became very excited, anticipating going for a walk
since I didn't say anything about it if we weren't going to go. He
ALWAYS wanted to go for a walk btw Goo. So Mr Goober, if you
don't believe his excited behavior was a responce to his anticipation
of the walk he just learned he was going to have, then WHAT do
you think caused it?
  #23  
Old April 27th 06, 06:58 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

****wit, another thing you don't seem to realize is, the more human
attributes you attempt to apply to animals, the stronger you make the
"ar" case.

But of course, we have seen for years that you are some kind of mutant
"ara".

  #24  
Old April 27th 06, 08:30 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On 27 Apr 2006 Goo wrote:

****wit, another thing you don't seem to realize is, the more human
attributes you attempt to apply to animals, the stronger you make the
"ar" case.


Understanding animal emotions is just a part of learning Goo...a
part that you will most likely never experience.

But of course, we have seen for years that you are some kind of mutant
"ara".


I encourage people to contribute to decent lives for livestock
instead of becoming vegan--which is what YOU/"aras" are
*opposed!* to--you poor, feebleminded, inept Goober.
  #25  
Old April 28th 06, 02:30 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

dh@. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:26:58 GMT, Jack Crenshaw wrote:


wrote:

"Many times, a human *anticipates* something without
even being told. That's because the human has an
understanding of the passage of time and the repetition
of intermediate events.

Dogs and other animals ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HAVE this kind
of understanding, and THEREFORE do not "anticipate"
anything. If the dog's owner tells the dog "I'm going
to take you for a walk next Saturday", that is
MEANINGLESS to the dog - he does not anticipate going
for the walk. If the owner picks up the leash, as he
always does before taking the dog for a walk, the dog
may react to that *signal* and get excited. It is not
"anticipating" the walk; it is merely giving a
CONDITIONED RESPONSE to a signal.

This difference is *elementary* to people who really
understand the issue" - Goobenicus


What a stupid thing to say.



From stupid minds....


First of all, the reason the dog doesn't
anticipate when "the dog's owner tells the dog "I'm going

to take you for a walk next Saturday"" is because THE DOG DOESN'T


SPEAK ENGLISH!! Duh.



Goo has always had a problem with things like that. The Goober
also can't understand why it is livestock never learn that they're being
raised to be killed, even though he can't explain how they could
possibly find out.


Second of all, it's a dumb thing to claim facts about animals that you
can't possibly know. It was dumb when Descartes said it, thereby
setting the science of animal behavior back 250 years, and it's dumb
today.



"Wisdom without eloquence has been of little help to the states,
but eloquence without wisdom has often been a great obstcle
and never an advantage." - Cicero


Guess you were late getting the word.

Jack



He's been exposed to it, but can't comprehend. And most
amusingly he considers himself to be very intelligent, hence
his title as Goobernicus: the moron who thinks he's a genius.
That's our Goo :-)


Ah. I get it. One of those.

Jack
  #26  
Old April 28th 06, 02:36 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

Leif Erikson wrote:
****wit, another thing you don't seem to realize is, the more human
attributes you attempt to apply to animals, the stronger you make the
"ar" case.

But of course, we have seen for years that you are some kind of mutant
"ara".

Are you guys done calling each other ****wit?

Do you get actual pleasure out of such exchanges? What is the thrill?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Jack
  #27  
Old April 28th 06, 02:40 PM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

dh@. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:26:58 GMT, Jack Crenshaw wrote:


wrote:

"Many times, a human *anticipates* something without
even being told. That's because the human has an
understanding of the passage of time and the repetition
of intermediate events.

Dogs and other animals ABSOLUTELY DO NOT HAVE this kind
of understanding, and THEREFORE do not "anticipate"
anything. If the dog's owner tells the dog "I'm going
to take you for a walk next Saturday", that is
MEANINGLESS to the dog - he does not anticipate going
for the walk. If the owner picks up the leash, as he
always does before taking the dog for a walk, the dog
may react to that *signal* and get excited. It is not
"anticipating" the walk; it is merely giving a
CONDITIONED RESPONSE to a signal.

This difference is *elementary* to people who really
understand the issue" - Goobenicus


What a stupid thing to say.



From stupid minds....


First of all, the reason the dog doesn't
anticipate when "the dog's owner tells the dog "I'm going

to take you for a walk next Saturday"" is because THE DOG DOESN'T


SPEAK ENGLISH!! Duh.



Goo has always had a problem with things like that. The Goober
also can't understand why it is livestock never learn that they're being
raised to be killed, even though he can't explain how they could
possibly find out.


Second of all, it's a dumb thing to claim facts about animals that you
can't possibly know. It was dumb when Descartes said it, thereby
setting the science of animal behavior back 250 years, and it's dumb
today.



"Wisdom without eloquence has been of little help to the states,
but eloquence without wisdom has often been a great obstcle
and never an advantage." - Cicero


Guess you were late getting the word.

Jack



He's been exposed to it, but can't comprehend. And most
amusingly he considers himself to be very intelligent, hence
his title as Goobernicus: the moron who thinks he's a genius.
That's our Goo :-)


Wait a minute ... is this about AR? If so, a plague on both your
houses. I have been here before, and encountered the AR and anti-AR
types before. IMO the only behavior more offensive and more hateful than
that of the AR, PETA types, comes from the other side. Never thought
I'd catch myself saying that there are people more stupid and hateful
than PETA, but there you are.

Jack
  #28  
Old April 30th 06, 01:40 AM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On 27 Apr 2006 Goo wrote:

****wit David Harrison, ignorant lying cracker, lied:
On 27 Apr 2006 Goo wrote:

****wit, another thing you don't seem to realize is, the more human
attributes you attempt to apply to animals, the stronger you make the
"ar" case.


Understanding animal emotions is just a part of learning Leif


You are imagining animals to have emotions they don't have


List which emotions animals are and are not capable of, Goo.
  #29  
Old April 30th 06, 01:54 AM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On 27 Apr 2006 a confused Goober wrote:

****wit David Harrison, ignorant lying cracker, lied:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 Goo wrote:

****wit David Harrison, ignorant lying cracker, lied:


What do you think *really* causes it, Mr Goober?

I don't know what "it" you're talking about, ****wit.


Anyone who reads any of this can quickly figure out that you
have no idea what we're talking about, Leif.


No, that's clearly false, ****wit.

There are lots of possible "its", ****wit - which one do you mean?



[...]
I had a dog for a number of years. If I said: "Do you want to go
for a walk." he became very excited, anticipating going for a walk
since I didn't say anything about it if we weren't going to go.

****wit: the dog was exhibiting what is called
"conditioned response".


Very good Goo, and we call this particular conditioned response
"anticipation".


No, ****wit. The *agitation* is the response, and agitation is not
"anticipation";


It's one of the results of anticipation Goob.

it's agitation.


LOL...yes Goo, agitation is a product of anticipation. Agitated
behavior is the "it" which you are so bewildered by, and the
behavior which we are discussing, and which you sometimes
desperately/comically try to pretend does not exist.

YOU are the one who "thinks", wrongly
of course, that the agitation is "caused" by "anticipation". That's
wrong.


LOL!!! Then what do you think caused it, you lame Goober?

[...]
He would not remember.


He remembered Goo.
  #30  
Old April 30th 06, 01:56 AM posted to rec.animals.wildlife,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,rec.pets.cats.community,rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Default Animals do not "anticipate"

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:40:36 GMT, Jack Crenshaw wrote:

dh@. pointed out:


He's been exposed to it, but can't comprehend. And most
amusingly he considers himself to be very intelligent, hence
his title as Goobernicus: the moron who thinks he's a genius.
That's our Goo :-)


Wait a minute ... is this about AR?


Well, it began about the stupidity of Goobernicus and what he
wants people to believe for some unexplainable reason(s), but....

If so, a plague on both your houses.


And likewise, thanks.

I have been here before, and encountered the AR and anti-AR
types before. IMO the only behavior more offensive and more hateful than
that of the AR, PETA types,

__________________________________________________ _______
October 17, 2004 Burton, Staffordshire, England:
Animal rights fanatics have threatened to dig up the remains of a second person
connected to Darley Oaks guinea pig farm. A letter to an elderly cleaner, who has
worked at the farm, contained threats to desecrate the grave of her husband. . .

August 11, 2002:
Arson by the ELF caused $700,000 worth of damage at a Forest Service lab
in Irvine, PA, and destroyed 70 years of research focused on maintaining a
healthy forest ecosystem. An e-mail from Elf's office said "While innocent
life will never be harmed in any action we undertake, where it is necessary,
we will no longer hesitate to pick up the gun to implement justice, and
provide the needed protection for our planet that decades of legal battles,
pleading protest, and economic sabotage have failed so drastically to
achieve." It further stated that all Forest Service stations were targeted,
and, if rebuilt, the Pennsylvania station would be targeted for complete
destruction.

June 12, 2001 MO:
A 30-year-old animal rights activist attacked a
"Survivor" series cast member at a workplace safety promotion, pepper
spraying him in the face and hitting several onlookers, including children, as
well. Police arrested the attacker. Michael Skupin, who lasted six weeks on
"Survivor," attributed the attack to his killing of a pig for food on the series.

February 23, 2001 UK:
In a major public escalation of animal rights terrorist violence, the managing
director of Huntingdon Life Sciences was attacked as he arrived home by
three masked goons wielding baseball bats or ax handles. Brian Cass, 53,
bludgeoned with head and body wounds and bruises, including a 3-inch
scalp gash, was saved from further injury by his girl friend's screams and
the aid of two passersby. One of the Good Samaritans chased the
attackers, but was debilitated by CS gas from one of the attackers. Cass,
stitched up and back at work the next day, vowed to continue the work of
HLS, which includes government mandated tests seeking cures for
dementia, diabetes, AIDS, asthma and other diseases. In reaction to the
attack, Ronnie Lee, ALF founder who is no longer with the group, condoned
the attack and expressed surprise that it didn't happen more often,
declaring that Cass got off "lightly." Other animal rights groups publicly
backed off condoning the act, but expressed "understanding" of how it
could occur. In calendar year 2000, 11 Huntingdon employees' cars were
firebombed.

February 13, 2001 Scotland:
A letter bomb was sent to an agricultural entity in the Borders. Army
experts were called out to defuse the bomb.

February 12, 2001 UK:
An agricultural firm in North Yorkshire received a letter bomb which was
defused without incident by army experts.

February 4, 2001 UK:
In an attack near Nantwich, Cheshire Beagles master George Murray, his
wife and five other hunt members were assaulted by masked animal rights
activists. At least five hunt members were injured by the stick- and
whip-wielding attackers. Murray was beaten, kicked in the head and face
and his wife was punched in the face. They were threatened with death as
retribution for the death 10 years ago of hunt saboteur Michael Hill.

January 31, 2001 UK:
A letter bomb exploded in Cumbria in a charity shop owned by the British
Heart Foundation. The woman who opened the package was not injured.

January 30, 2001 UK:
Two nail bombs, sent to an agricultural supplier in Sheffield and a cancer
research campaign shop in Lancashire, were detected and defused by
authorities before being opened by the recipients. Both bomb attacks were
linked to letter bomb mailings that started in mid-December.

January 5, 2001 UK:
Livestock auction estate agents in East Yorkshire are attacked by letter
bomb. One female staff member sustained serious eye injuries from the
explosion.

January 5, 2001 UK:
A farmer in North Yorkshire was injured by nails from an exploding letter
bomb.

December 30, 2000 UK:
A mail bomb sent to a pest control company in Cheshire exploded, injuring
the owner's 6-year old daughter who was helping her father with the mail.
The girl was cut on her legs and feet by shrapnel from the envelope.
Authorities suspect animal rights activists in the bombing.

http://www.naiaonline.org/body/artic...s/arterror.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
DAN MATHEWS, Celebrity Recruiter for PeTA

"We're at war, and we'll do what we need to win."
(USA Today, September 3, 1991)


INGRID NEWKIRK, FOUNDER, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT
OF ANIMALS (PETA)

"I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals
out or burn them down."
( National Animal Rights Convention '97, June 27, 1997)

"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against
it."
(Vogue, September, 1989)

"I know it's illegal [trespassing], but I don't think it's wrong."
(Montgomery County, MD, Journal Feb. 16, 1988)


ALEX PACHECO, CHAIRMAN, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT
OF ANIMALS (PETA)

"Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are 'acceptable
crimes' when used for the animal cause."
(Gazette Mail, Charleston, WV, January 15, 1989)

Intersting PeTA facts

When ALF member Roger Troen was convicted of burglary and arson at
the University of Oregon, in which $36,000 in damage was inflicted,
PeTA paid Troen's $27.000 legal fees and his $34,900 fine. Gary
Thorud testified under oath that "we were illegally funding this
individual with money solicited for other causes, and Ingrid was
using that money, bragging to the staff that she had spent $25,000
on the case."
Deposition of Gary Thorud, Berosini v. PeTA, at 49-50.

Rodney Coronado, a member of the Animal Liberation Front, pleaded
guilty and was sentenced to 57 months in prison for the destruction
of an animal diagnostics research lab at the University of California,
Davis in April, 1987 (total damage estimates: $4.5 million). PETA sent
$ 45,200 to Coronado's 'support committee,' which was a sum 15 times
greater than what PETA spent on animal shelters nationwide in all of
that year.

http://altpet.net/petition/arquote.html
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
PETA's sympathies for ELF actions were apparent in a recent speech by
PETA Vice President Bruce Friedrich.

"I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses,
these laboratories and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow," he said.

PETA payouts to radicals willing to carry out such crimes include:

-- $5,000 to Josh Harper, who was convicted of assaulting police and firing on
a fishing vessel;

-- $2,000 to Dave Wilson, convicted of firebombing a fur cooperative;

-- $7,500 to Fran Trutt, convicted of attempted murder of a medical executive

http://www.cdfe.org/peta_fox.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
comes from the other side.


So far I believe you're being extremely dishonest. But! If you can
show some example(s) of anti-"aras" engaging in "behavior more offensive
and more hateful than that of the AR, PETA types", then we'll see that
you're not being dishonest. But again!!! When you can't, we will have
learned that for some unexplained reason you are being dishonest. Do
you want to explain why, or must we try to guess?

Never thought
I'd catch myself saying that there are people more stupid and hateful
than PETA, but there you are.


Let's you educate us then. To begin with why don't you start by
explaining which rights you believe "aras" would provide for which
animals if any, and why we should believe you/them, if you can.
 




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