Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Response to (Claude V. Lucas):

snip

A couple of summers ago when I had the door open one of the
neighbor's kittens wandered in, all 8 ounces of him. Bubba
calmly walked over to it and hissed at it from close range.
When it hissed back, he couldn't get behind the couch fast
enough. I didn't think that he could move that quickly...

LOL!!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

As you know, I am having the same problems that you are trying to integrate
a new cat into the home. I don't have the declawed/non-declawed issue that
you do (BTW, I don't think that Gabby having claws is going to be a problem
for Phat Cat who has no claws). But I do have the problem of the new cat
stalking and chasing my resident cats...or at least one of them who doesn't
like the new cat. So far, I have dealt with the problem by keeping the cats
separated. But it's been about 2 months now and new cat really wants out
(and I don't blame her). I just don't like how she treats the other cats
when she does get out (so far she has a couple of times and it seems like
WWIII has broken out). Maybe I'm over-reacting and I should just let them
work it out as long as no blood is drawn. But I don't want my resident cat
to end up scared and hiding all the time. I wish he's get a backbone!

Any suggestions????

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Let me first say, yes, I feel animals have feelings. Most people
like to run their mouth about me worrying too much about my critters
and I have decided I can look way beyond that, considering YOU cat
people are nicer although much more ruthless and blunt.

Phat Kat is the newest addition to the household and is an altered
front-declawed male (around 22 lbs.), whereas Gabby is the altered
non-declawed ******* demon whip that licks at the back of angels*.

* Yep, still drinking Sky vodka and Pure cranberry juice. Whatever.

The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
have to ask...

Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?

In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack Phat
Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I continue to
swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no part of Gabby's
"ferocity?"

** I'm drunk. The primary reason I'm brave enough to even post here
after the madness that ensued last time (due mostly in part to my
disability and inability to effectively communicate at times).

I'll say this... despite what you "die hard cat fans" think you know
-- Phat Kat is NOT digging, I repeat, NOT digging Gabby's onslaught.

One last time in case I've royally screwed this post -- which I think
I have -- should I protect my declawed cat from my clawed aggressive
cat?

P.S. Maybe this goes out to those who remember me talking about
Gabby. Gabby is frickin' bad.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote

Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).

The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
have to ask...

That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people, very much a
'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.

Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with claws,
run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so) is an
absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?

Smile, sounds like Thom (25lbs declawed) and Roscoe (6.5 lbs, mostly claw
weight it seemed!). One day Thom got tired of it and sat on Roscoe.
Situation solved.

Unlike your Phat Kat, Thom had been fully de-clawed (back and front).

Response to "blkcatgal" :

snip

As you know, I am having the same problems that you are trying to
integrate a new cat into the home. I don't have the
declawed/non-declawed issue that you do (BTW, I don't think that
Gabby having claws is going to be a problem for Phat Cat who has
no claws). But I do have the problem of the new cat stalking and
chasing my resident cats...or at least one of them who doesn't
like the new cat. So far, I have dealt with the problem by
keeping the cats separated. But it's been about 2 months now and
new cat really wants out (and I don't blame her). I just don't
like how she treats the other cats when she does get out (so far
she has a couple of times and it seems like WWIII has broken out).
Maybe I'm over-reacting and I should just let them work it out as
long as no blood is drawn. But I don't want my resident cat to
end up scared and hiding all the time. I wish he's get a
backbone!

That's my problem! I understand the whole "animal kingdom" concept,
but sheesh -- sometimes it just seems excessive.

And like your resident, Phat Kat -- so far -- does NOT play with
Gabby. He merely defends. Not once has he initiated play and for
the most part stays buried behind the desk or couch when Gabby is
prowling.

I still question whether or not it is completely normal, but as usual
I heed the advice of those here (for the sake of my kitties) for the
time being.

Any suggestions????

Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across a
pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response to "cshenk" :

Declawed cat vs. Non-declawed cat. Should I worry?

Not really. Done it myself (rescued 2 de-clawed cats).

Another vote helps. I was just commenting how it still seems a bit
savage at times, but I am listening to the majority vote.

The dog "group" shredded me to pieces over various reasons, but I
have to ask...

That 'dog group' is probably the one I left. Very rude people,
very much a 'click'. Not at all helpful, unlike folks here.

Sounds like it. A bunch of harpies I tell ya'. More worried about
correcting my grammar than addressing the nonsense my puppies were
going through at the time.

Is it fair to have Gabby, the ferocious 8 or so pounder with
claws, run loose whilst Phat Kat, the mega-kitty (22 lbs or so)
is an absolute "awwwwwwww" waiting to happen -- minus the claws?

Smile, sounds like Thom (25lbs declawed) and Roscoe (6.5 lbs,
mostly claw weight it seemed!). One day Thom got tired of it and
sat on Roscoe. Situation solved.

Unlike your Phat Kat, Thom had been fully de-clawed (back and
front).

HAHA! I sure wish I could have shown Phat Kat a picture of that
scenario.

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response to "-Lost" :

Any suggestions????

Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across
a pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.

I am terribly sorry, I just realized I do have a suggestion! Here's
what I've been doing.

For a couple of weeks I kept Phat Kat behind a closed door that we
had modified so it had less bottom. This enabled Phat Kat to put
his head on the floor and look at us from down the hallway.

Then after a time we switch. Gabby would go in his kennel and Phat
Kat roamed free.

Gabby and Phat Kat had continual hissing conversations through the
door. And they batted at each other constantly.

Then I put a HUGE pile of treats on the floor where Phat Kat could
almost touch them with his mouth and Gabby had to "pull" them to him
under the door.

For a couple more weeks I had Gabby's carrier sitting right in the
middle of wherever Phat Kat had to be. Generally the middle of the
living room or the middle of the kitchen.

After that immersion therapy I decided (about 2, maybe 3 days now)
they should be out together again for the first time in about four
or five weeks I think.

***

Now on to the behavior.

They appear fine for about 10% of the time. Moments where both are
laying there sleeping or walking about ignoring each other.

The other 90% of the time Gabby is interested only in messing with
Phat Kat.

He cannot eat in peace, poop in peace, nor lay on the back of a
couch in peace unless it is the one I am sitting at and Phat Kat
sits behind me.

And when they tangle, they TANGLE. I am often reminded of the ball
of dust you see in cartoons (Tom and Jerry?) where you randomly see
a paw, tail, or head poke out from the melee.

***

And no, no magic cure yet. Every now and again though, Gabby needs
to be kenneled because he gets into this ape-**** ninja-baboon ****e
where he bounces off of everything and postures at everyone
(including our rabbit, our pig, our puppies, our ferrets, and Phat
Kat). Time out for crazy-kitty.

Good luck kiddo!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Thanks for your suggestions. I've got one question. When you say you had
Gabby's kennel in the room where Phat Cat was, was Gabby in the kennel at
this time? How did Phat Cat react? How did Gabby react? How big is the
kennel? Are you talking about a carrier? How long did you leave the kennel
out? I've been thinking about setting up a cage in the family room and
putting the new cat in there for a while so the other cats can see her and
vice versa. I'm just concerned how the new cat will react being in a cage
when the other cats are not. Also, trying to get the resident cats to go
near the cage when she's in it may be an issue. Right now, my one cat (the
one that isn't getting along with new cat) will not go near the door to the
room she is in and will run from her when he sees her.

But the cage may be my next step.

Thanks again.

S.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "-Lost" :

Any suggestions????

Me?! I wish. All I can say is good luck and if I ever run across
a pouch of faerie dust I'll be more than happy to share.

I am terribly sorry, I just realized I do have a suggestion! Here's
what I've been doing.

For a couple of weeks I kept Phat Kat behind a closed door that we
had modified so it had less bottom. This enabled Phat Kat to put
his head on the floor and look at us from down the hallway.

Then after a time we switch. Gabby would go in his kennel and Phat
Kat roamed free.

Gabby and Phat Kat had continual hissing conversations through the
door. And they batted at each other constantly.

Then I put a HUGE pile of treats on the floor where Phat Kat could
almost touch them with his mouth and Gabby had to "pull" them to him
under the door.

For a couple more weeks I had Gabby's carrier sitting right in the
middle of wherever Phat Kat had to be. Generally the middle of the
living room or the middle of the kitchen.

After that immersion therapy I decided (about 2, maybe 3 days now)
they should be out together again for the first time in about four
or five weeks I think.

***

Now on to the behavior.

They appear fine for about 10% of the time. Moments where both are
laying there sleeping or walking about ignoring each other.

The other 90% of the time Gabby is interested only in messing with
Phat Kat.

He cannot eat in peace, poop in peace, nor lay on the back of a
couch in peace unless it is the one I am sitting at and Phat Kat
sits behind me.

And when they tangle, they TANGLE. I am often reminded of the ball
of dust you see in cartoons (Tom and Jerry?) where you randomly see
a paw, tail, or head poke out from the melee.

***

And no, no magic cure yet. Every now and again though, Gabby needs
to be kenneled because he gets into this ape-**** ninja-baboon ****e
where he bounces off of everything and postures at everyone
(including our rabbit, our pig, our puppies, our ferrets, and Phat
Kat). Time out for crazy-kitty.

Good luck kiddo!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

"-Lost" wrote in message
...
Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

In case it was not clear**, Gabby (the meanie) likes to attack
Phat Kat (the softie with no claws in the front) -- should I
continue to swat Gabby away when it is EVIDENT Phat Kat wants no
part of Gabby's "ferocity?"

Your swatting Gabby will only make the situation worse - he'll
take the resentment out on Phat Kat and come to fear you... a
lose-lose situation. I doubt that Gabby is hurting Phat Kat,
cats' thick hair usually prevent injuries unless it's a *serious*
fight (in which case you should keep them completely separate and
re-start a slow introduction). If it is just agressive play going
on, or even a pecking order being established, your best course of
action is to just stay out of it and let them settle it on their
own (as long as nobody is getting hurt, of course).

See? Mark me down for another miscommunication. : P

Instead of swatting I should have said waving my arms or whatnot in
his general region or in his face if I am that close. Like shooing
maybe?

And I do a lot of "ssss!"-ing or pill shaking, but I am going to try
clapping and a loud "non-pussy" yell. ;P

Well, considering you are a mega-ailurophile you probably know
better. What I consider a bit too far is maybe just the pecking
order like you say.

I just know for the time being Phat Kat hides in every little nook
and cranny he can to avoid Gabby and Gabby takes the fight straight
to him. Inevitably Phat Kat leaps up to sit behind me and Gabby
paces the floor in front of me. (I guess knowing that I will not let
him keep up his ****e.)

I am probably over-reacting but it does not seem like a normal tussle
to me.

Thanks for the advice.

You're the one there witnessing the situation, so go with your gut feeling.
If you think Gabby is terrorizing Phat Kat then it might be a good idea to
completely separate them and start the introduction process all over again.
MaryL has a great page about how she introduced Duffy to Holly - if you ping
her I'm sure she'll post the link to it for you.

Hugs,

CatNipped


--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response to "blkcatgal" :

Thanks for your suggestions. I've got one question.

Nuh uh. : P

When you say
you had Gabby's kennel in the room where Phat Cat was, was Gabby
in the kennel at this time?

Yes.

How did Phat Cat react?

Completely ignored him.

Phat Kat is seriously overweight and since Gabby was not covered in
kibble I really do not think he noticed him. (Or cared.)


How did
Gabby react?

Rowwwwwwwwwwwrrrrr...

Rooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrr...

ROWR!!

ROWR!!

Something like that.

How big is the kennel?

~22" long, ~16" tall.

Are you talking about a carrier?

Welcome to the world of my miscommunication, sorry.

Yes, it is a carrier.

How long did you leave the kennel out?

For the last week, maybe week and a half he stayed out in the open
in the middle of things non-stop.

Only when it was bedtime would we take the carrier back to the
computer room (where they slept side-by-side in carriers).

I've been
thinking about setting up a cage in the family room and putting
the new cat in there for a while so the other cats can see her and
vice versa. I'm just concerned how the new cat will react being
in a cage when the other cats are not.

I could be missing something -- but does it really matter if she
reacts?

I mean, she's safe, the resident is safe. Besides stress (which is
bad, yes, but...) I do not see a major problem. The way I saw it
was that they were forced to confront each other without having to
CONFRONT each other, ya' know?

Also, trying to get the
resident cats to go near the cage when she's in it may be an
issue.

Again, I do not see an issue because the new lass does not call the
shots (aka "cannot go after the resident") and eventually they will
come out of hiding.

I also made sure the food bowl was not far from the carrier -- but
that was because Phat Kat has 4 primary concerns.

1. Eating.
2. Dropping #2's like a 50lb. dog.
3. Sleeping.
4. Shedding.

Maybe #5 would be non-stop petting. He cannot get enough.

Right now, my one cat (the one that isn't getting along
with new cat) will not go near the door to the room she is in and
will run from her when he sees her.

But the cage may be my next step.

Well, you can always try it out for a week or two -- and I am
thinking at LEAST a week or two, otherwise a day or two he'll just
avoid the situation. A week or more makes him HAVE to see her.

The added benefit (again) is that she cannot take off after him and
he should learn she's "shackled."

Thanks again.

IF any of this assists your situation, then you are most welcome.

Good luck!!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.

Response to "CatNipped" :

snip

You're the one there witnessing the situation, so go with your gut
feeling. If you think Gabby is terrorizing Phat Kat then it might
be a good idea to completely separate them and start the
introduction process all over again. MaryL has a great page about
how she introduced Duffy to Holly - if you ping her I'm sure
she'll post the link to it for you.

Exactly. I just didn't want to take everyone down "-Lost is
overreacting again"-lane or something. This time instead of hopping
immediately on here and ranting about how bad Gabby behaved, I let
this go for a few days.

Hopefully I am more on track this time. Even after ~8 months with
Gabby and almost 2 with Phat Kat, I still feel like I have not even
read the first page on cats.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do that now!

--
-Lost
Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am
kidding. No I am not.