[OT] I dare you all...

"Pat" wrote in message
et...

"Christina Websell" wrote

| I do struggle with my liking for chicken meat, knowing that most is
| factory farmed.

And I had this crazy idea that you were a poultry farmer!


Over here in the UK, as in many parts of the world, and in particular in
rural areas, people can and many do, keep a few chickens of their own to
supply eggs and meat. Example: I'm in a rural area and many of my neighbours
do indeed keep a few chickens, geese, cattle, pigs. Mostly they do this so
they know how their meat/milk supply has been looked after during its
lifetime (humanely) and what it's been fed and how it's been killed. Not
everyone who keeps animals is an evil factory farmer ;-)

Trees get cleared for grazing too, not just crops. However, you're
correct though in saying that all farming has an impact on the
environment, in some way. It's a question of how big the impact is.

I also agree that making too strong a point of guilt tripping non-
vegetarians about their meat eating can be counter productive. Giving
a strong view about anything, will cause most people to defend
themselves, rather than looking at things more objectively. I'm
vegetarian myself, but don't confront meat eaters about giving up
meat. I would if they confronted me, which so far no one has. However
I very occasionally get idiotic comments like "don't carrots feel pain
too".

Although most people who responded to the original post appear to be
anti-vegetarianism, there are still plenty of vegetarians out there
and even more people who are cutting down their meat consumption. I
know *so* many people now who have done this, even former die-hard
meat lovers. Although the latter tend to give up meat for health
reasons.

Dewi.

"Dewi" wrote in message
oups.com...

Trees get cleared for grazing too, not just crops. However, you're
correct though in saying that all farming has an impact on the
environment, in some way. It's a question of how big the impact is.

Indeed it is. I don't think the difference between impact is as clear-cut as
*some* may think. Especially when things like food miles are taken into
account.



I also agree that making too strong a point of guilt tripping non-
vegetarians about their meat eating can be counter productive. Giving
a strong view about anything, will cause most people to defend
themselves, rather than looking at things more objectively. I'm
vegetarian myself, but don't confront meat eaters about giving up
meat. I would if they confronted me, which so far no one has. However
I very occasionally get idiotic comments like "don't carrots feel pain
too".


Oh I've had vegetarians & vegans point out to me the evils of meat & dairy.
In return, when I've asked about the environmental aspects of food miles on
lots of veggie foods, the range of responses goes from 'I don't think about
it' to 'yes, but, we aren't evil' to 'it's the compromise we accept'

Although most people who responded to the original post appear to be
anti-vegetarianism, there are still plenty of vegetarians out there
and even more people who are cutting down their meat consumption. I
know *so* many people now who have done this, even former die-hard
meat lovers. Although the latter tend to give up meat for health
reasons.


Perhaps the 'anti-vegetarian' sentiment comes in response to the 'I dare you
to look' emphasis from the OP, which had more than a hint of emotional
blackmail in it ;-) I eat less meat than I used to and I have no problem
eating my 'five-a-day' intake of fruit & veg. But I really, really despise
the 'holier-than-thou' manner of *some* who appear to look down on anyone
who eats meat. After all, in evolutionary terms, it appears that it is
eating meat that allowed early hominids to develop big brains and we are
biologically omnivores. Most of us do, of course, eat too much meat than is
healthy for us these days, but there is a place for meat in a healthy,
balanced diet. Nor is that condoning bad factory-farming practises.

More and more, I'm trying to source *locally produced* meat, fruit & veg for
the table. That way at least, I'm doing a tiny bit to cut down on food miles
and the environmental costs of that particular thorny issue. On the down
side, it means I rarely have mango - bah! ;-)



Dewi.

[snips]

No cluons were harmed when Dewi wrote:
Although most people who responded to the original
post appear to be anti-vegetarianism, there are
still plenty of vegetarians out there

I think you have confused pro-meat with anti-vegetarianism.

I, for one, have nothing against vegetarianism, and am also disgusted with
the way meat farmers treat their animals...


Hugs and Purrs,
Mark
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request

I don't want to get into a fight here but my father raises cattle, and
honestly they are treated better than most house animals, I am sure there
are bad ones but please don't paint them all with the same brush. and for
the record, if my health would take it I wouldn't ever eat a bit of meat
because of the taste. Lee
Mark Edwards wrote in message
...
[snips]

No cluons were harmed when Dewi wrote:
Although most people who responded to the original
post appear to be anti-vegetarianism, there are
still plenty of vegetarians out there

I think you have confused pro-meat with anti-vegetarianism.

I, for one, have nothing against vegetarianism, and am also disgusted with
the way meat farmers treat their animals...


Hugs and Purrs,
Mark
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request

On Feb 13, 11:22 pm, "Pat"
wrote:
"Shiral" wrote

| Pat, you can't complain "leave me alone!" when you were the one
| to introduce this topic. Especially not after you called it "I dare
| you all." Past experience could have told you proselytization, for
| whatever cause, is rarely appreciated. If you had not posted this, you
| would not have to worry about being called names.

Saying "leave me alone" isn't a complaint.

"I dare you all" meant exactly that. I dare you all to watch that video. So
far it appears no one has done so. The challenge still stands.

I was never "worried" about being "called names". I knew it would happen. I
do not care. There is no point in arguing with anyone who refuses to examine
the reality of the situation with regard to modern meat industry practices.
Facts are not in dispute there. My point was simply to makes those facts
known.

At least once a week someone posts here about some awful cruelty done to
some cat or kitten or dog. I don't enjoy those threads but I don't complain
about them. Meanwhile farm animals are being treated like inanimate objects
and massacred by the billions, and one thread appears mentioning the
subject, and I am demonized for bringing it up, by people who do not wish to
think about the issue. So be it. I still dare you to watch that video.

If I become a vegetarian it will be because I CHOOSE to become one,
NOT because I'm being scolded, emotionally blackmailed or browbeaten
by any person or group. I think there are a lot of valid reasons for
people to choose a meatless diet. I certainly am not going to urge a
committed vegetarian to eat meat. But as with religion my view is "eat
what you want, and worship as you see fit. But do not try to tell me
how to do either one."

Melissa

"Pat" wrote in message
et...

"Christina Websell" wrote

| I do struggle with my liking for chicken meat, knowing that most is
| factory farmed.

And I had this crazy idea that you were a poultry farmer!


No, not in the meat-type way. I keep rare breed and heritage chickens in
the hope that they won't die out and sell fertile eggs to those people who
share my views.

Tweed

"Shiral" wrote
| "Shiral" wrote
|
| | Pat, you can't complain "leave me alone!" when you were the one
| | to introduce this topic. Especially not after you called it "I dare
| | you all." Past experience could have told you proselytization, for
| | whatever cause, is rarely appreciated. If you had not posted this, you
| | would not have to worry about being called names.
|
| Saying "leave me alone" isn't a complaint.
|
| "I dare you all" meant exactly that. I dare you all to watch that video.
So
| far it appears no one has done so. The challenge still stands.
|
| I was never "worried" about being "called names". I knew it would
happen. I
| do not care. There is no point in arguing with anyone who refuses to
examine
| the reality of the situation with regard to modern meat industry
practices.
| Facts are not in dispute there. My point was simply to makes those facts
| known.
|
| At least once a week someone posts here about some awful cruelty done to
| some cat or kitten or dog. I don't enjoy those threads but I don't
complain
| about them. Meanwhile farm animals are being treated like inanimate
objects
| and massacred by the billions, and one thread appears mentioning the
| subject, and I am demonized for bringing it up, by people who do not
wish to
| think about the issue. So be it. I still dare you to watch that video.
|
| If I become a vegetarian it will be because I CHOOSE to become one,
| NOT because I'm being scolded, emotionally blackmailed or browbeaten
| by any person or group. I think there are a lot of valid reasons for
| people to choose a meatless diet. I certainly am not going to urge a
| committed vegetarian to eat meat. But as with religion my view is "eat
| what you want, and worship as you see fit. But do not try to tell me
| how to do either one."

I was not scolding anyone. Neither is the video I recommended. It just shows
how the animals are actually treated. I dare you to watch it. That is not
blackmail or browbeating. It's a plain and simple dare. Take it or leave it.

"Christina Websell" wrote

| "Pat" wrote

| And I had this crazy idea that you were a poultry farmer!
|
|
| No, not in the meat-type way. I keep rare breed and heritage chickens in
| the hope that they won't die out and sell fertile eggs to those people who
| share my views.

Well if you have the space and like to eat chicken, why not raise a few for
your own consumption? Wouldn't that be cheaper than buying even the
mass-produced kind? And you would know the quality was good, and that the
birds never suffered.

If I had a country place I think I would keep some chickens as pets. I do
like to eat chicken but I just can't imagine myself killing them to eat. I
*can* imagine killing a wild turkey once a year rather than buying a
free-range turkey from the store for Thanksgiving dinner. There's no better
tasting meat than a wild bird.

"Pat" wrote in message
et...

I was not scolding anyone. Neither is the video I recommended. It just
shows
how the animals are actually treated. I dare you to watch it. That is not
blackmail or browbeating. It's a plain and simple dare. Take it or leave
it.


Sorry, but if I want advice on what to put into my mind or my body, I will
seek it out.

Preferably from someone with some degree of mental and physical health.

Now, have you or have you not had your quota of attention for the week?

Jo