Mom [OT]

Hi, Joyce
I doubt she is offended. She's probably tickled to death you make the
effort, and they do cut a bit of slack for gabachos. The use of "Usted"
involoves a whole different mindset and a different grammar structure
altogether. If she's not obviously offended or doesn't correct your
usage, stick with "tu."

A lot depends on where she's from. In most parts of Mexico the informal
"tu" is okay unless there is a great disparity in social level or age.
In some parts, particularly around Eastern Mexico, to call someone you
don't know well or who is on a higher social level or older than you, to
say "tu" is a deliberate insult.

wrote:

Victor Martinez wrote:

David Yehudah wrote:

Since I have two Spanish-speakers here - Mexican Spanish, no less - I'd
like to ask a question. Last week I spent a day helping a friend with her
work. She had an employee who is from Mexico and didn't speak a lot of
English. When I had to speak to Ceci (the employee), we kind of stumbled
around with her poor English and my poor Spanish. We did OK, actually.
However, I noticed that she always addressed me using the formal ("usted")
form, even though we were on the same level (both working for the same
person). I am much older than she is, so that might be why she was so formal.
Or maybe she is used to calling all Norteamericanos "usted" (when they
understand Spanish).

Because I'm far more used to using the "tu" form, due to years of using it
in Spanish classes, and in conversations with just about everyone I've ever
spoken to, those verb forms come more easily to me than the formal forms
do. So anyway, we had her addressing me in the formal, and me addressing
her in the informal. I kind of wanted to tell her there was no need for
her to use such formal language with me, but I didn't because who am I to
tell her how to use her own language?? Maybe to her it would have felt
really inappropriate to use the informal with me. My question is, was I
insulting toward her to use the informal?

Joyce

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On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:12:53 -0800, David Yehudah
wrote:

Hi, Joyce
I doubt she is offended. She's probably tickled to death you make
the effort, and they do cut a bit of slack for gabachos. The use of
"Usted" involoves a whole different mindset and a different grammar
structure altogether. If she's not obviously offended or doesn't
correct your usage, stick with "tu."

A lot depends on where she's from. In most parts of Mexico the
informal "tu" is okay unless there is a great disparity in social
level or age. In some parts, particularly around Eastern Mexico, to
call someone you don't know well or who is on a higher social level
or older than you, to say "tu" is a deliberate insult.

This reminds me of my experience in college with a Chinese room-mate.
He was an exchange student from Hong Kong. I got to know him, and
most of the other Chinese exchange students living on my dorm floor,
pretty well. There is a Western stereotype that Chinese people keep
a polite half-smile all of the time, so that you can't tell what
emotion they are really feeling. In practice, when they are around
strangers, or in a more formal situation, they do indeed keep a
politely non-committal expression. Once they feel at ease with you,
on the other hand, they emote just as much as do Westerners.

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John F. Eldredge --
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:54:16 -0800, David Yehudah
yodeled:

I know a few curse words in Arabic. That's one of the things that annoys
Arabs in general; Hebrew has no curse words, so the Israelis curse in
Arabic. The worst you can do in Hebrew is "atta beheymah (you're an
animal)" or "lech l'Azazel (go to the devil). I like the Arabic words
because they mean things a lot nastier than the usual English curse
words. Same with Spanish. :-)



Don't they have curses in Arabic like "Son of fifteen dogs and
twenty-five monkeys, and a pig with loose morals"?

Theresa
alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/

Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal
claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful.
(Aldous Huxley)

wrote:
do. So anyway, we had her addressing me in the formal, and me addressing
her in the informal. I kind of wanted to tell her there was no need for

It's very common for someone "below" to use the formal but be addressed
in the informal.

her to use such formal language with me, but I didn't because who am I to
tell her how to use her own language?? Maybe to her it would have felt

It's not necessarily a matter of how to use the language, but a matter
of custom. Depending on where from Mexico she was from, she might prefer
one form or another.

really inappropriate to use the informal with me. My question is, was I
insulting toward her to use the informal?

As a rule of thumb since you said she's from Mexico and the fact that
you are co-workers at the same level, no. It's perfectly acceptable to
use the informal. You could tell her to talk to you using the informal,
say something like "me puedes hablar de tu" or "no es necesario que me
hables de usted".
However, in some parts of the country (and I'm sure in other countries
as well) it's always required for youngsters to use the formal when
addressing elders. In northern Mexico children address their parents
using the formal, which I've always thought is the weirdest custom of
all...
I use the informal with anybody younger than me and the formal when the
person I'm addressing is someone I don't know or more "respectable"
(i.e. 10+ years older than me).
Hope this helps.


--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

David Yehudah wrote:
occasions when it is acceptable. For example, very few academics liked
to be called by their first name by their students. To me it's basically
good manners. I had a few professors in college that asked to be called
by their first name, but I always felt uncomfortable doing so.

I always addressed my college professors by their title (doctor,
ingeniero, licenciado), and it irked me that my classmates from Mexico
city called them by their first names. But a relationship
student-professor is very different than that from a grown man/woman and
some random PhD.
I seldom use my title here in the US, but in Mexico I would be expected
to use my title even in social situations.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam he
Email me he

"CK" wrote in message
...
Ages ago, when I was still living with my parents, we tried to make a
list of versions of our last name on mail, both junk mail and ordinary
mail, and it eventually made quite a long list. Unfortunately I don't
have the list anymore, but some versions of our last name (Krühn) we
- Kruhn
- Kruehn
- Kreuhn
- Kriin
- Kryhn
- Kryn
- Kr hn
- Krhn
- Krön
- Kröhn
- Grön
- Grun
- etc. etc.

I do know that some computer systems (it seems like most of them) cannot
deal with the ü (the u with dots) as it isn't a letter in the normal
Finnish alphabet. Some systems make the letter into some special
character, leave it blank or just drop it out and make the name "Krhn".

There is a local saying which roughly translated goes "a dear child has
many names", well that would make our family very dear indeed!

LOL! I could come up with a list like that for Hölzl too. But in Germany
they change the umlaut into the letter without the dots followed by an e to
mean the same thing. That's how they do it if the computer system can't
handle umlauts. So Hölzl becomes Hoelzl. In Canada, they just left the
dots off so it was Holzl (on drivers licences, tax forms, etc).
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered
in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

LOL. Years ago, my direct superior, the pediatric radiologist, was a
second-gen Syrian-American.....he once taught me a curse that went something
like, "May the wild desert dogs devour your illustrous grandmother, and
spread her bones to the far dunes beyond". Sorry to say I've forotten
everything he ever taught me except pediatric radiology and Ela Akbu - or
however it's spelled (God is great).



"Kreisleriana" wrote in message
...
: On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:54:16 -0800, David Yehudah
: yodeled:
:
: I know a few curse words in Arabic. That's one of the things that annoys
: Arabs in general; Hebrew has no curse words, so the Israelis curse in
: Arabic. The worst you can do in Hebrew is "atta beheymah (you're an
: animal)" or "lech l'Azazel (go to the devil). I like the Arabic words
: because they mean things a lot nastier than the usual English curse
: words. Same with Spanish. :-)
:
:
:
: Don't they have curses in Arabic like "Son of fifteen dogs and
: twenty-five monkeys, and a pig with loose morals"?
:
: Theresa
: alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/
:
: Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal
: claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply
disgraceful.
: (Aldous Huxley)

"Jette Goldie" wrote in message
...

"Seanette Blaylock" wrote in
message ...
Cathi had some very
interesting things to say about Mom [OT]:

Anyone else get ticked off if their name is shortened beyond where they
would care to shorten it?

Very.


My name - as given to me by my parents - is perhaps a
little difficult for the average Scot to pronounce -
Georgette, with a soft French G

It got mangled regularly at school, so for convenience
when I left school I shortened it to Jette. That's JET.

So why the h*ll does my HR department insist on calling
me "Jetty"? Every other b*gger in the Agency can
manage Jette pronounced Jet.

"Oh but it looks French" quoth one

"yes it IS French" I replied "which is why it is JET"

"but shouldn't it have one of those thingies over the last E?"

"Did I write one there? No? then it shouldn't have an accent -
ok?"

(and they STILL keep doing it)(sometimes in the same conversation
less than a minute after being corrected on the pronounciation)

Ooooh, you definitely need to get together with Marina! Then you guys could
go around introducing yourselves as Jetty and Marina...ROFL...I crack myself
up ;-)
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered
in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

"Cheryl Perkins" wrote in message
...

This sums it up perfectly. I don't believe you were attacking America
David. I'm with Sherry, if you had disagreed with many of the things we
do, I'd be right along with you. Politics, animal care, economy... But
as a mother, I'm particularly proud to be called our cultural name. I
never even dreamed that it would be considered yucky by anyone. I guess
because I would never consider "Mother" in any language to be icky. It's
a name that "just is". It always has been and it always will be. Just as
Mum, Mama, Mommy, Mummy will be.

All words 'just are'. Some usages of some words do strike me as, well,
unpleasant for some reason, ie 'icky'. I wouldn't exclude words for a
parent from this category, not all of them, and certainly not in all
contexts. So I'm left wondering what all the fuss is about? Sometimes,
some words, even ones for 'mother' sound 'icky' to some hearers,
especially
cross-culturally, or across regional or economic lines. It doesn't mean
that a person who naturally uses or is called by that particular term for
'mother' shouldn't be proud of it or use it or anything of the kind.

One phrase that really irkitates me is "could care less", when it seems so
obvious to me that it should be "couldn't care less". But its just one of
those weird dialect things, and I just have to deal with - its not like
anyone is going out of their way to annoy me, and nor are they saying
anything incorrectly - well, not according to the way they were taught at
least. We could argue till we're blue in the face about it, and it won't
stop either of us using hte phrase that we are used to.

Still, I probably mangle all sorts of English (of whatever dialect) by
speaking modern Australian. I really have no clue about the difference
between "who" and "whom" for example, and using "whom" sounds very affected
to me.

And then ther'es the whole "news" pronunciations - I say it like it rhymes
with Ewes -nyewz-, whilst many folks here would say "nooz". And then there
are words that are not only pronounced differently but mean completley
different things, like "Jelly" and "Jumper" for two. By reading htis group,
I have become fairly multi-lingual, but sometimes Ihave abrain burk and
wonder why peole are bewildered baut what I've jsut said.

Yowie

"ellis92" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...
badwilson wrote:

In Thailand you can't be a pilot in the military if you have any
fillings or unfilled cavities. Sure weeds out a lot of applicants!

And the reason is...?

Joyce

Air trapped in a cavity or loose filling may expand when increased
altitude causes it to expand. It could be very painful.


Yer really grasping at straws there, dude. I mean, what about all the other
pilots from say North America and Europe and places like that. I guess all
of their cavity filled mouths must be screaming in pain every time they go
flying!
--
Britta
Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that's covered
in fur!
Check out pictures of Vino at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album