"Tutorial" guidance required for reading cat food labels - please help, anyone

i need a "tutorial" in reading labels. I'm trying to put together all
the information
i've gotten from reading the back-and-forths about nutrition and
petfood in this newsgroup
and i don't think i understand very much. i really want to do the best
thing for my cat. could someone help me apply what i've read
in a reading label exercise?


1) my question is: what are excessive levels of nutrients?

a lot of talk about excessive levels of nutrients and insufficient
ratios harming cats.
help me: if i buy, what levels should i look for on labels, then? If
i'm preparing homemade,
how much ?

- magnesium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- calcium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- phosphorous: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- ash : not more than how much % ?

should i be looking out for ratios, percentages or quantities ?

i know about calcium: phosphorous having to be 1.2: 1.2.1 (correct?) ,
but WHAT happens if
it's 1: 1.2 or .79: 1.2? how bad is it?

for example, right now I am feeding a combination of Back to Basics
dry food and
Prota Cat Steak and Kidney. Both these foods have calcium-phosphorous
ratios that
are not 1.2: 1.2.1 but are sort of close. Should I supplement?

Here is the label reading for Back to Basics

Back to Basics (from packet labelling - the packet labelling is a bit
different from their web site labelling)
Crude Protein not less than 34.00%
Crude Fat not less than 21.00%
Crude Fiber not less than 3.50%
Moisture not more than 10.00%
Ash not more than 5.6%
Calcium not more than 1.1%
Phosphorous not more than 1.0%
Magnesium not more than 0.095% (is this high?)
Copper = 33.06mg/kg

In addition i have these questions:

First, does this mean that the carb count for BtoB is 25.9% ?
(100-34-21-3.5-10-6.5=25.9)

According to the comparison that has been going on, this is sort of OK
for a dry food in terms
of grain content? It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a dry food without at
least 20-30% grain content, right?

Second, it says about ash here on the Back to Basics maker's web site:
(http://www.beowulfs.com/natural_cat_food.shtml):

ASH

When meat is cooked, ash is produced. The ash content in cat
food is proportional to the amount of
meat in the food. In other words, the higher the meat content,
the higher the ash. However
high quality meat produces less ash than low quality meat. Back
to Basics uses only the highest
quality meats available and, therefore, has the least ash content
possible which is approximately
6 1/2%. (The only way to get lower ash content is to supplement
cheap vegetable proteins)

So is this true? This ash - if I were to cook my own meat, is ash
produced or is it only produced by commercial
machines or something? Am I supposed to be able to
see this ash? If I'm going to feed raw (like the Prota Cat), there's
NO ash becuase it's
not cooked, then?

My colleague was showing me a NZ brand of catfood (some kind of semi
wet food )she had just
bought called Nature's Gift (I think)
and i happened to see it had 12% ash - isn't that TOO HIGH? (according
to the back to basics web
site description that's very high).

Third, the phosphorous content for B2B, it's OK but on the high side?

I also feed Prota Pak Catfood (chilled). The calcium is 1% and the
phosphorous is 1.2%. Is this
not acceptable?? To supplement that should be trying to put the
balance back by putting in .1% of calcium?
(and how would i do this)

2) Taurine

My (insufficient) reading tells me that meat itself is a source of
taurine. Therefore if I'm
feeding a raw food diet (like porta pak catfood), is that enough
taurine, or do i need to
add by-products (hearts or liver for taurine?)? What is the minimum mg
or % of taurine I should
include in my cat's diet? I can't find taurine-alone tablets in pet
stores, only vitamin tablets that
include taurine. Are these useful at all?


any opinions, help, corrections appreciated, thanks.

1) my question is: what are excessive levels of nutrients?

Some nutrients are in fact toxic to lethal if overdosed, but as long
as you do not supplement your cat with these nutrients (unless under
veterinary supervision), you should be fine. These nutrients are all
essential metals (sodium, potassium, iron, copper, nickel, cobalt,
manganese, magnesium, etc.), and some vitamins (vitamins A, D, K).
Calcium can be dangerous if not properly balanced with phosphorus. If
properly balanced, most of it may pass straight through and not even
go into the blood. The AAFCO says a calciumhosphorus ratio of
anywhere from 1:1 to 3:1 is fine. Since liver contains a lot of
vitamin A, it is a good idea to not feed it too often. I give my cats
liver once a week. Fish is also rich in minerals, so that´s another
thing I do not give more than once a week. All commercial foods should
be within acceptable limits (or ratios) of all nutrients mentioned
above.

A lot of people state that excess magnesium can lead to struvites (a
magnesium salt that precipitates in the bladder and causes blockage).
It can happen indeed but in alkaline urine. In acidic urine you would
need a huge amount of magnesium to get those crystals precipitating.
Proper amounts of magnesium have been shown to protect from calcium
oxalate stones. One thing that I found amusing when this mania of
cutting down on magnesium began is that not one manufacturer of
commercial food told customers to check what kind of clay they used in
their litter box. One very popular clay is a magnesium salt so it´s no
use cutting magnesium down in the diet and using that clay in the
litter box. Cat goes to box, than licks his paws and… so much for a
low-magnesium diet.

If i'm preparing homemade, how much?

If you are preparing homemade, don´t feed liver, kidney (rich in
minerals) and fish too often. I personally find it very advisable to
supplement with an antioxidant formula containing vitamin E, linoleic,
linolenic and arachidonic acids (or omega fatty acids or PUFAs).
Although meats contain those nutrients, they are easily oxidized by
air so depending on how much time has passed from the day the animal
was killed to the day the meat is consumed, it will have lost much of
it. If you intend to cook the food, then this supplementation is
mandatory since these nutrients are easily destroyed by heat. Cheryl
uses a great supplement but I can't remember the name.

should i be looking out for ratios, percentages or quantities ?

If you are buying a commercial food, I believe no brand is using
excessive amounts or incorrect ratios of anything in there. If you are
preparing home-made, don´t feed some meats too often (above). There
are great books out there with home-made recipes and one of these
books will even give you a nutrient analysis of each of the recipes.

i know about calcium: phosphorous having to be 1.2: 1.2.1 (correct?) ,
but WHAT happens if it's 1: 1.2 or .79: 1.2? how bad is it?

Anything from 1:1 to 3:1 Ca:P is ok according to the AAFCO. If what
you wrote above is 1 calcium: 1.2 phosphorus and 0.79 calcium to 1.2
phosphorus, that´s not ok. But if it´s 1.2 calcium to 0.79 phosphorus,
that´s ok.

for example, right now I am feeding a combination of Back to Basics
dry food and Prota Cat Steak and Kidney. Both these foods have
calcium-phosphorous ratios that are not 1.2: 1.2.1 but are sort of
close. Should I supplement?

Never supplement on minerals unless under veterinary supervision. If
you gave your cats bones, you would be supplementing but there´s a big
difference in feeding bones and giving prepared supplements. Bones
come in a perfectly balanced ratio and most of it does not even enter
the bloodstream from what I have observed. Supplements (calcium) are
made with a very soluble calcium salt and easily enter the
bloodstream.

Here is the label reading for Back to Basics

Back to Basics (from packet labelling - the packet labelling is a bit
different from their web site labelling)
Crude Protein not less than 34.00%
Crude Fat not less than 21.00%
Crude Fiber not less than 3.50%
Moisture not more than 10.00%
Ash not more than 5.6%
Calcium not more than 1.1%
Phosphorous not more than 1.0%
Magnesium not more than 0.095% (is this high?)
Copper = 33.06mg/kg

Looks good. How about the ingredients?

In addition i have these questions:

First, does this mean that the carb count for BtoB is 25.9%?
(100-34-21-3.5-10-5.6=25.9)

That´s it. Although fibers are carbs, they are not digested so can be
subtracted along with the rest.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a dry food without at least 20-30% grain
content, right?

It would be possible to do a dry food with zero carbs but it would be
extremely expensive. You would need the same kind of process used in a
pharmaceutical industry for making brewer's yeast tablets. Don´t
forget the most important "nutrient": water. Cats on canned diets
ingest much more water than cats on dry diets. Ideally, dry should be
given only as treat or snack.

ASH
When meat is cooked, ash is produced. The ash content in cat
food is proportional to the amount of meat in the food. In other
words, the higher the meat content, the higher the ash.

Not necessarily true. A person could formulate a plant-only diet and
supplement with minerals (ash). OTOH, a diet that claims to have lots
of meat cannot be low in ash (especially phosphorus). This is one
thing that you need to remember if you prepare a homemade diet. Meats
have much more phosphorus than calcium so bones should always be
included. I also like to include milk but not all cats can drink milk
without consequences.

(The only way to get lower ash content is to supplement
cheap vegetable proteins)

Vegetable protein is not only cheap but it is also of very low
quality.

So is this true? This ash - if I were to cook my own meat, is ash
produced or is it only produced by commercial machines or something?

Ash is what cannot be burned, that is, minerals. If you look up some
meats in the USDA site, you will see that all meats contain minerals.
It´s not produced by the machines.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

Am I supposed to be able to see this ash? If I'm going to feed raw
(like the Prota Cat), there's NO ash becuase it's not cooked, then?

No. There is ash but you can´t see it. Do you have a fireplace? When
you burn a log, ash remains, right? Same with meat. You can roast meat
until there´s nothing but ash left.

My colleague was showing me a NZ brand of catfood (some kind of
semi wet food )she had just bought called Nature's Gift (I think)
and i happened to see it had 12% ash - isn't that TOO HIGH?
(according to the back to basics web site description that's very
high).

I don´t know the food but semi-moist is considered the worst food
there is because of all the chemicals you need to put in there,
especially to protect from mold. There are reports that dogs fed
semi-moist foods had their lives cut in half. I don´t understand why
Waltham had to add nuggets to Whiskas. Why make it worst than it was
already?

Third, the phosphorous content for B2B, it's OK but on the high side?

You will not find anywhere in literature anything saying that dietary
phosphorus in the levels used in pet food and properly balanced with
calcium is detrimental to kidneys. What you will find is papers saying
that phosphorus is detrimental if there is too much phosphorus in
blood, a condition called hyperphosphataemia. This condition usually
appears when there´s very little kidney function left and IMO, it´s
not caused by dietary phosphorus but by bone dissolution because of
metabolic acidosis. A study showed that cutting down on phosphorus did
not increase the life expectancy of dogs in the terminal stage of
kidney disease. Another study showed that cutting down of phosphorus
increased the life expectancy of cats with kidney disease. Maintenance
diets for dogs are not acidified. Maintenance diets for cats are
acidified. Kidney diets for cats are not acidified. IMO, it´s not the
lower phosphorus that extended their lives but controlling metabolic
acidosis. One very respected veterinary nephrologist suspects that it
is the acidifying nature of maintenance diets for cats that cause
metabolic acidosis in cats with advanced kidney disease. See if you
can find a thread called "Chronic Renal Failure." I wrote a big post
there and listed all references, some with links. Metabolic acidosis
will cause among other problems, bone dissolution (hyperphosphataemia,
hypercalcemia), and protein catalysis (high BUN and creatinine).
Excess acid in blood will also accelerate kidney damage.

I also feed Prota Pak Catfood (chilled). The calcium is 1% and the
phosphorous is 1.2%. Is this not acceptable?? To supplement that
should be trying to put the balance back by putting in .1% of calcium?

I understand that´s not the only thing you feed. Add all the ratios of
everything you feed and make sure the final ratio is anywhere from 1:1
and 3:1 Ca:P.

2) Taurine

My (insufficient) reading tells me that meat itself is a source of
taurine. Therefore if I'm feeding a raw food diet (like porta pak
catfood), is that enough taurine, or do i need to add by-products (hearts or liver for taurine?)? What is the minimum mg or % of taurine
I should include in my cat's diet? I can't find taurine-alone tablets in pet stores, only vitamin tablets that include taurine. Are these
useful at all?

Don´t worry about supplementing taurine if you are feeding commercial
+ raw meats. The only deficiency one of my cats had after 9 months
eating only raw beef muscle and raw liver once a week was vitamin E
deficiency (mentioned earlier about supplementation). In zoos, the
only cats that needed extra supplementation of taurine besides what
they got from the meat they were given were leopards. If you are
feeding only homemade, some recipes will request extra supplementation
and some won´t. Adding heart to your cat´s diet if you are feeding him
only homemade is a good idea. There is a group of raw feeders that you
can join. They will give you a lot of help and info on preparing
homemade. A holistic vet will most likely help you too.

And, of course, expect another war to start from this thread! LOL

1) my question is: what are excessive levels of nutrients?

Some nutrients are in fact toxic to lethal if overdosed, but as long
as you do not supplement your cat with these nutrients (unless under
veterinary supervision), you should be fine. These nutrients are all
essential metals (sodium, potassium, iron, copper, nickel, cobalt,
manganese, magnesium, etc.), and some vitamins (vitamins A, D, K).
Calcium can be dangerous if not properly balanced with phosphorus. If
properly balanced, most of it may pass straight through and not even
go into the blood. The AAFCO says a calciumhosphorus ratio of
anywhere from 1:1 to 3:1 is fine. Since liver contains a lot of
vitamin A, it is a good idea to not feed it too often. I give my cats
liver once a week. Fish is also rich in minerals, so that´s another
thing I do not give more than once a week. All commercial foods should
be within acceptable limits (or ratios) of all nutrients mentioned
above.

A lot of people state that excess magnesium can lead to struvites (a
magnesium salt that precipitates in the bladder and causes blockage).
It can happen indeed but in alkaline urine. In acidic urine you would
need a huge amount of magnesium to get those crystals precipitating.
Proper amounts of magnesium have been shown to protect from calcium
oxalate stones. One thing that I found amusing when this mania of
cutting down on magnesium began is that not one manufacturer of
commercial food told customers to check what kind of clay they used in
their litter box. One very popular clay is a magnesium salt so it´s no
use cutting magnesium down in the diet and using that clay in the
litter box. Cat goes to box, than licks his paws and… so much for a
low-magnesium diet.

If i'm preparing homemade, how much?

If you are preparing homemade, don´t feed liver, kidney (rich in
minerals) and fish too often. I personally find it very advisable to
supplement with an antioxidant formula containing vitamin E, linoleic,
linolenic and arachidonic acids (or omega fatty acids or PUFAs).
Although meats contain those nutrients, they are easily oxidized by
air so depending on how much time has passed from the day the animal
was killed to the day the meat is consumed, it will have lost much of
it. If you intend to cook the food, then this supplementation is
mandatory since these nutrients are easily destroyed by heat. Cheryl
uses a great supplement but I can't remember the name.

should i be looking out for ratios, percentages or quantities ?

If you are buying a commercial food, I believe no brand is using
excessive amounts or incorrect ratios of anything in there. If you are
preparing home-made, don´t feed some meats too often (above). There
are great books out there with home-made recipes and one of these
books will even give you a nutrient analysis of each of the recipes.

i know about calcium: phosphorous having to be 1.2: 1.2.1 (correct?) ,
but WHAT happens if it's 1: 1.2 or .79: 1.2? how bad is it?

Anything from 1:1 to 3:1 Ca:P is ok according to the AAFCO. If what
you wrote above is 1 calcium: 1.2 phosphorus and 0.79 calcium to 1.2
phosphorus, that´s not ok. But if it´s 1.2 calcium to 0.79 phosphorus,
that´s ok.

for example, right now I am feeding a combination of Back to Basics
dry food and Prota Cat Steak and Kidney. Both these foods have
calcium-phosphorous ratios that are not 1.2: 1.2.1 but are sort of
close. Should I supplement?

Never supplement on minerals unless under veterinary supervision. If
you gave your cats bones, you would be supplementing but there´s a big
difference in feeding bones and giving prepared supplements. Bones
come in a perfectly balanced ratio and most of it does not even enter
the bloodstream from what I have observed. Supplements (calcium) are
made with a very soluble calcium salt and easily enter the
bloodstream.

Here is the label reading for Back to Basics

Back to Basics (from packet labelling - the packet labelling is a bit
different from their web site labelling)
Crude Protein not less than 34.00%
Crude Fat not less than 21.00%
Crude Fiber not less than 3.50%
Moisture not more than 10.00%
Ash not more than 5.6%
Calcium not more than 1.1%
Phosphorous not more than 1.0%
Magnesium not more than 0.095% (is this high?)
Copper = 33.06mg/kg

Looks good. How about the ingredients?

In addition i have these questions:

First, does this mean that the carb count for BtoB is 25.9%?
(100-34-21-3.5-10-5.6=25.9)

That´s it. Although fibers are carbs, they are not digested so can be
subtracted along with the rest.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a dry food without at least 20-30% grain
content, right?

It would be possible to do a dry food with zero carbs but it would be
extremely expensive. You would need the same kind of process used in a
pharmaceutical industry for making brewer's yeast tablets. Don´t
forget the most important "nutrient": water. Cats on canned diets
ingest much more water than cats on dry diets. Ideally, dry should be
given only as treat or snack.

ASH
When meat is cooked, ash is produced. The ash content in cat
food is proportional to the amount of meat in the food. In other
words, the higher the meat content, the higher the ash.

Not necessarily true. A person could formulate a plant-only diet and
supplement with minerals (ash). OTOH, a diet that claims to have lots
of meat cannot be low in ash (especially phosphorus). This is one
thing that you need to remember if you prepare a homemade diet. Meats
have much more phosphorus than calcium so bones should always be
included. I also like to include milk but not all cats can drink milk
without consequences.

(The only way to get lower ash content is to supplement
cheap vegetable proteins)

Vegetable protein is not only cheap but it is also of very low
quality.

So is this true? This ash - if I were to cook my own meat, is ash
produced or is it only produced by commercial machines or something?

Ash is what cannot be burned, that is, minerals. If you look up some
meats in the USDA site, you will see that all meats contain minerals.
It´s not produced by the machines.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

Am I supposed to be able to see this ash? If I'm going to feed raw
(like the Prota Cat), there's NO ash becuase it's not cooked, then?

No. There is ash but you can´t see it. Do you have a fireplace? When
you burn a log, ash remains, right? Same with meat. You can roast meat
until there´s nothing but ash left.

My colleague was showing me a NZ brand of catfood (some kind of
semi wet food )she had just bought called Nature's Gift (I think)
and i happened to see it had 12% ash - isn't that TOO HIGH?
(according to the back to basics web site description that's very
high).

I don´t know the food but semi-moist is considered the worst food
there is because of all the chemicals you need to put in there,
especially to protect from mold. There are reports that dogs fed
semi-moist foods had their lives cut in half. I don´t understand why
Waltham had to add nuggets to Whiskas. Why make it worst than it was
already?

Third, the phosphorous content for B2B, it's OK but on the high side?

You will not find anywhere in literature anything saying that dietary
phosphorus in the levels used in pet food and properly balanced with
calcium is detrimental to kidneys. What you will find is papers saying
that phosphorus is detrimental if there is too much phosphorus in
blood, a condition called hyperphosphataemia. This condition usually
appears when there´s very little kidney function left and IMO, it´s
not caused by dietary phosphorus but by bone dissolution because of
metabolic acidosis. A study showed that cutting down on phosphorus did
not increase the life expectancy of dogs in the terminal stage of
kidney disease. Another study showed that cutting down of phosphorus
increased the life expectancy of cats with kidney disease. Maintenance
diets for dogs are not acidified. Maintenance diets for cats are
acidified. Kidney diets for cats are not acidified. IMO, it´s not the
lower phosphorus that extended their lives but controlling metabolic
acidosis. One very respected veterinary nephrologist suspects that it
is the acidifying nature of maintenance diets for cats that cause
metabolic acidosis in cats with advanced kidney disease. See if you
can find a thread called "Chronic Renal Failure." I wrote a big post
there and listed all references, some with links. Metabolic acidosis
will cause among other problems, bone dissolution (hyperphosphataemia,
hypercalcemia), and protein catalysis (high BUN and creatinine).
Excess acid in blood will also accelerate kidney damage.

I also feed Prota Pak Catfood (chilled). The calcium is 1% and the
phosphorous is 1.2%. Is this not acceptable?? To supplement that
should be trying to put the balance back by putting in .1% of calcium?

I understand that´s not the only thing you feed. Add all the ratios of
everything you feed and make sure the final ratio is anywhere from 1:1
and 3:1 Ca:P.

2) Taurine

My (insufficient) reading tells me that meat itself is a source of
taurine. Therefore if I'm feeding a raw food diet (like porta pak
catfood), is that enough taurine, or do i need to add by-products (hearts or liver for taurine?)? What is the minimum mg or % of taurine
I should include in my cat's diet? I can't find taurine-alone tablets in pet stores, only vitamin tablets that include taurine. Are these
useful at all?

Don´t worry about supplementing taurine if you are feeding commercial
+ raw meats. The only deficiency one of my cats had after 9 months
eating only raw beef muscle and raw liver once a week was vitamin E
deficiency (mentioned earlier about supplementation). In zoos, the
only cats that needed extra supplementation of taurine besides what
they got from the meat they were given were leopards. If you are
feeding only homemade, some recipes will request extra supplementation
and some won´t. Adding heart to your cat´s diet if you are feeding him
only homemade is a good idea. There is a group of raw feeders that you
can join. They will give you a lot of help and info on preparing
homemade. A holistic vet will most likely help you too.

And, of course, expect another war to start from this thread! LOL

A study showed that cutting down on phosphorus did
not increase the life expectancy of dogs in the terminal stage of
kidney disease.

Is this a very old study? There was a study done at the U. of Minnesota back
in 2001 or 2002 that showed dogs fed a low phosphorus food lived over 3 times
as long (on average) and with 1/2 the uremic crisises (sp?) as dogs on a
"maintenance" food. (and these were dogs "in the terminal stage of kidney
disease). Actually kidney disease is always fatal, so at what point do you
believe to be the "terminal stage" of kidney disease?

A study showed that cutting down on phosphorus did
not increase the life expectancy of dogs in the terminal stage of
kidney disease.

Is this a very old study? There was a study done at the U. of Minnesota back
in 2001 or 2002 that showed dogs fed a low phosphorus food lived over 3 times
as long (on average) and with 1/2 the uremic crisises (sp?) as dogs on a
"maintenance" food. (and these were dogs "in the terminal stage of kidney
disease). Actually kidney disease is always fatal, so at what point do you
believe to be the "terminal stage" of kidney disease?

Is this a very old study? There was a study done at the U. of Minnesota back
in 2001 or 2002 that showed dogs fed a low phosphorus food lived over 3 times
as long (on average) and with 1/2 the uremic crisises (sp?) as dogs on a
"maintenance" food. (and these were dogs "in the terminal stage of kidney
disease). Actually kidney disease is always fatal, so at what point do you
believe to be the "terminal stage" of kidney disease?

Gauby, life is fatal. If you are alive, you are definitively going to
die some day. But to answer your question, by terminal stage I mean
symptoms start to appear and CRF is diagnosed (20% kidney function
left?). Do you have the reference of that newer study with dogs?
Thanks.

Is this a very old study? There was a study done at the U. of Minnesota back
in 2001 or 2002 that showed dogs fed a low phosphorus food lived over 3 times
as long (on average) and with 1/2 the uremic crisises (sp?) as dogs on a
"maintenance" food. (and these were dogs "in the terminal stage of kidney
disease). Actually kidney disease is always fatal, so at what point do you
believe to be the "terminal stage" of kidney disease?

Gauby, life is fatal. If you are alive, you are definitively going to
die some day. But to answer your question, by terminal stage I mean
symptoms start to appear and CRF is diagnosed (20% kidney function
left?). Do you have the reference of that newer study with dogs?
Thanks.

(RW) wrote in message . com...
i need a "tutorial" in reading labels. I'm trying to put together all
the information
i've gotten from reading the back-and-forths about nutrition and
petfood in this newsgroup
and i don't think i understand very much. i really want to do the best
thing for my cat. could someone help me apply what i've read
in a reading label exercise?


1) my question is: what are excessive levels of nutrients?

a lot of talk about excessive levels of nutrients and insufficient
ratios harming cats.
help me: if i buy, what levels should i look for on labels, then? If
i'm preparing homemade,
how much ?

- magnesium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- calcium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- phosphorous: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- ash : not more than how much % ?

Key Nutritional Factors
Small Animal Clinical Nutrition IV ed. page 309
This section authored by:
Claudia Kirk, DVM pHd, ACVIM ACVN, University of Tennesse
Jaques DeBraekeleer, DVM, Professor, Small Animal Clincial Nutrition
Netherlands
P.Jane Armstrong, DVM PhD, Diplomate, ACVIM, Professor Small Animal
Internal Medicine - School of Veterinary Medicine Perdue University.

% dry matter basis adult older (7+ years)
Protein 30-45% 30-45%
Fat 10-30% 10-25%
Fiber 5% 10%
Phosphorus 0.5-0.8% 0.5-0.7%
Calcium 0.5-1.0% 0.6-1.0%
Sodium 0.2-0.6% 0.2-0.5%
Magnesium 0.04-0.1% 0.05-0.1%



ASH

When meat is cooked, ash is produced. The ash content in cat
food is proportional to the amount of
meat in the food.

That isn't quite correct. There isn't any "ash" in a pet food. Ash
refers to a chemical analysis wherein the food is actually burned so
remove everything but the minerals (calcium, copper, magnesium, iron,)
that cannto be burned. Thus a measurement of ash in a food means the
total amount of minerals in the food. Meat meals are a significant
soruce of minerals but by no means the only source in any pet food.

If I'm going to feed raw (like the Prota Cat), there's
NO ash becuase it's
not cooked, then?

No, cooked or raw, the amount of minerals in any given ingredinet will
not change.


My colleague was showing me a NZ brand of catfood (some kind of semi
wet food )she had just
bought called Nature's Gift (I think)
and i happened to see it had 12% ash - isn't that TOO HIGH?

That would be an indicator of poor quality meats. Typically the
largest single element in the "basket" of all the minerals will be
calcium. High levels of calcium generally are the result of using
cheap meat meals that contain very high percentages of ground up bone
tissue. Generally the cheaper the meat meals the more ground up bone
tissue is in the meat meal.

(RW) wrote in message . com...
i need a "tutorial" in reading labels. I'm trying to put together all
the information
i've gotten from reading the back-and-forths about nutrition and
petfood in this newsgroup
and i don't think i understand very much. i really want to do the best
thing for my cat. could someone help me apply what i've read
in a reading label exercise?


1) my question is: what are excessive levels of nutrients?

a lot of talk about excessive levels of nutrients and insufficient
ratios harming cats.
help me: if i buy, what levels should i look for on labels, then? If
i'm preparing homemade,
how much ?

- magnesium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- calcium: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- phosphorous: not more than how much % is acceptable?
- ash : not more than how much % ?

Key Nutritional Factors
Small Animal Clinical Nutrition IV ed. page 309
This section authored by:
Claudia Kirk, DVM pHd, ACVIM ACVN, University of Tennesse
Jaques DeBraekeleer, DVM, Professor, Small Animal Clincial Nutrition
Netherlands
P.Jane Armstrong, DVM PhD, Diplomate, ACVIM, Professor Small Animal
Internal Medicine - School of Veterinary Medicine Perdue University.

% dry matter basis adult older (7+ years)
Protein 30-45% 30-45%
Fat 10-30% 10-25%
Fiber 5% 10%
Phosphorus 0.5-0.8% 0.5-0.7%
Calcium 0.5-1.0% 0.6-1.0%
Sodium 0.2-0.6% 0.2-0.5%
Magnesium 0.04-0.1% 0.05-0.1%



ASH

When meat is cooked, ash is produced. The ash content in cat
food is proportional to the amount of
meat in the food.

That isn't quite correct. There isn't any "ash" in a pet food. Ash
refers to a chemical analysis wherein the food is actually burned so
remove everything but the minerals (calcium, copper, magnesium, iron,)
that cannto be burned. Thus a measurement of ash in a food means the
total amount of minerals in the food. Meat meals are a significant
soruce of minerals but by no means the only source in any pet food.

If I'm going to feed raw (like the Prota Cat), there's
NO ash becuase it's
not cooked, then?

No, cooked or raw, the amount of minerals in any given ingredinet will
not change.


My colleague was showing me a NZ brand of catfood (some kind of semi
wet food )she had just
bought called Nature's Gift (I think)
and i happened to see it had 12% ash - isn't that TOO HIGH?

That would be an indicator of poor quality meats. Typically the
largest single element in the "basket" of all the minerals will be
calcium. High levels of calcium generally are the result of using
cheap meat meals that contain very high percentages of ground up bone
tissue. Generally the cheaper the meat meals the more ground up bone
tissue is in the meat meal.

(Liz) wrote in message . com...

You will not find anywhere in literature anything saying that dietary
phosphorus in the levels used in pet food and properly balanced with
calcium is detrimental to kidneys. What you will find is papers saying
that phosphorus is detrimental if there is too much phosphorus in
blood, a condition called hyperphosphataemia.

That is of course utter nonsense. In a dozen studies the level of
phosphorus in the FOOD provided the animal, vastly affected the
lifespan of the CRF animal. The primary dietary recommendation for the
condition of hyperphosphatemia is REDUUCING the level of phosphorus in
the diet. Since none of us have a crystal ball and cannot tell which
one of five cats will succumb to renal failure, it makes absolutely NO
sense to feed excessive levels of phosphorus in the diet. There is no
"good news" to feeding high phos. There isn't a single advantage to
feeding high levels of phosphorus. Since there is NO advantage, and
since nobody can determine which cat will succumb to CRF , and since
CRF is the second most common cause of death in cats, it makes
absolutely NO sense to feed excessive levels of phos to any animal.
It's just a stupid and avoidable risk.


A study showed that cutting down on phosphorus did
not increase the life expectancy of dogs in the terminal stage of
kidney disease.

Please provide a source for this wild statement. Given that the last
four Grade 1 published peer reviewed studies showed exactly the
opposite. My guess is that you are once again referring to Finco's
much bashed study wherein he fed the group of high phos dogs potassium
citrate, did not feed the low phos dogs potassium citrate, took three
dogs out of the study without acknowledgeing it, admitted that the
dogs on high phos diets had greater and more extensive uremic crisis,
and claimed that since the high phos dogs died of uremic crisis and
NOT renal failure there was no difference with high phos levels. Most
folks consider a dead dog a "negative outcome". Finco chose not to do
so.