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Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 24th 07, 11:19 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
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Posts: 1,027
Default Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"cindys" wrote in message
...

Hiya Cindi,


products. Then, I moved to FF because I considered that it was better
quality.


It is- much higher protein content.


As time went on, after reading this newsgroup, and after I did a
bunch of reading on the internet about the importance/quality of muscle
meats as opposed to byproducts


Actually, by-products contain *much* more nutrients than muscle meats.
Muscle meat (skeletal meat) is very deficient in most vitamins and minerals,
Cats in the wild eat much more by-products than skeletal meat


and after I read some excerpts from the book
_Foods Pets Die For_ and learned the source of those byproducts,



Oh no! Not Ann Martin! LOL! We sliced, diced and shredded most of her
bull**** exaggerations a few years ago. She hasn't been back since. Her
bull**** claims and exaggerations didn't stand up to scrutiny. She took a
few isolated instances from a few low-end generic pet food manufacturers and
extrapolated then to the whole pet food industry. If you ask me, she isn't
playing with a full deck--



and then of
course the melamine thing,



A real nightmare for sure. But that was actually caused by one person. Watch
the incidence of CRF in cats start declining. The person didn't just decide
to dump a load of melamine in the wheat gluten- it was gradual-- to see how
much he could get away with-

I wanted to feed my cats human grade cat food
which by definition cannot contain byproducts.


I'm not sure you really understand what by-products are. Human foods
contain by-products.

This is the AAFCO definition:



"Meat by-products is the non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived
from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen,
kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature
fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does
not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs. It shall be suitable for use in
animal food. If it bears name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond
thereto. (9.3)"



I also needed to choose one
that contained few carbohydrates because of the diabetes and that was how

I
eventually came to Wellness.


I don't know if you know that Wellnesss is manufactured by Menu Foods, too.
Wellness also contains a lot of vegetables which have a higher glycemic
index than most grains.


At one point, I was buying Pet Promise, which I
still think is an excellent quality food, but it does contain rice and
potatoes. I had asked my vet if she thought FF was a good choice, and she
stated that she wouldn't recommend any supermarket pet food.


Most vets are clueless about nutrition. They're "educated" by pet food
manufacturers' reps.


I currently
have been feeding my cats Wellness and FF because they really like it
(despite the byproducts). My cats seem to only be willing to eat the pate
varieties. I try to avoid the varieties that are chunks or slices in gravy
because my cats just lick off the gravy and leave the rest.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


I'm really happy you've weaned your cat off insulin!!! I've weaned several
diabetic cats off insulin by feeding them Fancy Feast Oceanfish and Tuna. I
also had good results with Nutro California Chicken a few years ago, but I
think Nutro changed their formula. Nutro is another company that used to
make great food but slid dow the pole.

Best of luck,

Phil


  #12  
Old June 25th 07, 01:35 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,355
Default Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast

On Sun 24 Jun 2007 06:19:06p, Phil P. wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav news:u5Cfi.10473$xy.8716@trnddc06:

and then of
course the melamine thing,



A real nightmare for sure. But that was actually caused by one
person. Watch the incidence of CRF in cats start declining. The
person didn't just decide to dump a load of melamine in the
wheat gluten- it was gradual-- to see how much he could get away
with-


Interesting thought. I'd bet that you're right. I keep reading that
CRF is the biggest killer illnesses in cats.

--
Cheryl


  #13  
Old June 25th 07, 01:53 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Matthew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,930
Default Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"Phil P."

I don't know if you say or not Phil but Rumble has been one year off of
insulin due to your and a few others recommendations

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN



  #14  
Old June 27th 07, 04:55 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cindys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"Phil P." wrote in message
news:u5Cfi.10473$xy.8716@trnddc06...

"cindys" wrote in message
...

Hiya Cindi,


Hi yourself, Phil!


products. Then, I moved to FF because I considered that it was better
quality.


It is- much higher protein content.


As time went on, after reading this newsgroup, and after I did a
bunch of reading on the internet about the importance/quality of muscle
meats as opposed to byproducts


Actually, by-products contain *much* more nutrients than muscle meats.
Muscle meat (skeletal meat) is very deficient in most vitamins and
minerals,
Cats in the wild eat much more by-products than skeletal meat


I thought the by-products were processed parts of the animals, parts that
were unusable for humans and would be rejected by the FDA.



and after I read some excerpts from the book
_Foods Pets Die For_ and learned the source of those byproducts,



Oh no! Not Ann Martin! LOL! We sliced, diced and shredded most of her
bull**** exaggerations a few years ago. She hasn't been back since.


Thanks for saving me time and money. I was going to buy her book. Now, I
won't.


Her
bull**** claims and exaggerations didn't stand up to scrutiny. She took a
few isolated instances from a few low-end generic pet food manufacturers
and
extrapolated then to the whole pet food industry. If you ask me, she
isn't
playing with a full deck--



and then of
course the melamine thing,



A real nightmare for sure. But that was actually caused by one person.


Yup.


Watch
the incidence of CRF in cats start declining. The person didn't just
decide
to dump a load of melamine in the wheat gluten- it was gradual-- to see
how
much he could get away with-


Yup.


I wanted to feed my cats human grade cat food
which by definition cannot contain byproducts.


I'm not sure you really understand what by-products are. Human foods
contain by-products.

This is the AAFCO definition:



"Meat by-products is the non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat,
derived
from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs,
spleen,
kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature
fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does
not include hair, horns, teeth and hoofs. It shall be suitable for use in
animal food. If it bears name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond
thereto. (9.3)"


This is just the opposite of what I thought the byproducts were. I thought
they were rendered, nonclean parts etc and *did* include horns, hair, teeth,
hoofs, etc However, I *thought* I got my information regarding the
preferability of muscle meats from the website where the veterinarian
explains about cat food and then recommends a few different ones, but I've
read so many things, I really can't say for sure.


I also needed to choose one
that contained few carbohydrates because of the diabetes and that was how

I
eventually came to Wellness.


I don't know if you know that Wellnesss is manufactured by Menu Foods,
too.
Wellness also contains a lot of vegetables which have a higher glycemic
index than most grains.


Interesting.


At one point, I was buying Pet Promise, which I
still think is an excellent quality food, but it does contain rice and
potatoes. I had asked my vet if she thought FF was a good choice, and she
stated that she wouldn't recommend any supermarket pet food.


Most vets are clueless about nutrition. They're "educated" by pet food
manufacturers' reps.


I can't speak for the supermarket brand, but I did know the Pet Promise was
good food and it was available in the supermarket. When I asked the vet
about it, she was completely unfamiliar with it.


I currently
have been feeding my cats Wellness and FF because they really like it
(despite the byproducts). My cats seem to only be willing to eat the pate
varieties. I try to avoid the varieties that are chunks or slices in
gravy
because my cats just lick off the gravy and leave the rest.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


I'm really happy you've weaned your cat off insulin!!!


It happened almost immediately after I put him on canned food (and Purina OM
dry).

I've weaned several
diabetic cats off insulin by feeding them Fancy Feast Oceanfish and Tuna.


That's another flavor I sometimes buy in addition to the Tender Beef Feast.

Phil, I just want to thank you again for all your help. I also want to share
with you (and don't ask me how this could be, but I'm not going to look a
gift horse in the mouth), that Alex's BUN is back to being within normal
limits. His creatinine is still abnormal but has come down considerably and
is much closer to the normal range. I followed your advice and did not put
him on low protein cat food (contrary to the vet's advice). I also give him
potassium and omega-3 supplementation on the basis of your advice. I have
done subcu fluids a few times, but overall not, as the vet says he doesn't
really need them at this point. I can't say he's bouncy and perky, but for a
senior cat, he's doing okay. I do give him Pepcid daily now and that seems
to keep his appetite up. The vet now says he seems stable, and even though
he has CRF, he could potentially stay at his current numbers for several
years without the disease actually progressing.

Once again, thank you so much for all your help.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

I
also had good results with Nutro California Chicken a few years ago, but I
think Nutro changed their formula. Nutro is another company that used to
make great food but slid dow the pole.

Best of luck,

Phil




  #15  
Old June 27th 07, 07:51 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Rhonda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 864
Default Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast

cindys wrote:
This is just the opposite of what I thought the byproducts were. I thought
they were rendered, nonclean parts etc and *did* include horns, hair, teeth,
hoofs, etc However, I *thought* I got my information regarding the
preferability of muscle meats from the website where the veterinarian
explains about cat food and then recommends a few different ones, but I've
read so many things, I really can't say for sure.


Hey Cindy,

This was an interesting bit of additional grossness from one cat site:

--------------------
Definition: Meat By-Products are parts of slaughtered animals, not
including meat (please note: no muscle meat included). Included are
lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, liver, blood, bone, partially defatted
low-temperature fatty tissue, and stomach and intestines freed of their
contents.

What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also legally
contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down), road kill,
euthanized cats and dogs, including their collars. These source products
are rendered, the fat is siphoned off to be used as "animal fat," and
the remaining material is extruded to form "meat by-product meal."

From: http://cats.about.com/od/catfoodglos...meatbyprod.htm
--------------------

Ick!

And don't get me started on gelatin for humans. I can no longer eat
Jello (or gummi bears for that matter) since I found out it's boiled
bones and tissues and stuff.

Charlie -- the sun will come out tomorrow.

Rhonda

  #16  
Old June 27th 07, 08:39 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cindys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"Rhonda" wrote in message
...
cindys wrote:
This is just the opposite of what I thought the byproducts were. I
thought they were rendered, nonclean parts etc and *did* include horns,
hair, teeth, hoofs, etc However, I *thought* I got my information
regarding the preferability of muscle meats from the website where the
veterinarian explains about cat food and then recommends a few different
ones, but I've read so many things, I really can't say for sure.


Hey Cindy,

This was an interesting bit of additional grossness from one cat site:

--------------------
Definition: Meat By-Products are parts of slaughtered animals, not
including meat (please note: no muscle meat included). Included are lungs,
spleen, kidneys, brain, liver, blood, bone, partially defatted
low-temperature fatty tissue, and stomach and intestines freed of their
contents.

What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also legally
contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down), road kill, euthanized
cats and dogs, including their collars. These source products are
rendered, the fat is siphoned off to be used as "animal fat," and the
remaining material is extruded to form "meat by-product meal."

From: http://cats.about.com/od/catfoodglos...meatbyprod.htm
--------------------


This is what I previously read as well (but on a different website). That
was precisely why I was trying to avoid cat food with byproducts.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


Ick!

And don't get me started on gelatin for humans. I can no longer eat Jello
(or gummi bears for that matter) since I found out it's boiled bones and
tissues and stuff.

Charlie -- the sun will come out tomorrow.

Rhonda



  #17  
Old June 27th 07, 09:18 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cybercat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,212
Default Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"Rhonda" wrote
Hey Cindy,

This was an interesting bit of additional grossness from one cat site:

--------------------
Definition: Meat By-Products are parts of slaughtered animals, not
including meat (please note: no muscle meat included). Included are lungs,
spleen, kidneys, brain, liver, blood, bone, partially defatted
low-temperature fatty tissue, and stomach and intestines freed of their
contents.

What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also legally
contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down), road kill, euthanized
cats and dogs, including their collars. These source products are
rendered, the fat is siphoned off to be used as "animal fat," and the
remaining material is extruded to form "meat by-product meal."

From: http://cats.about.com/od/catfoodglos...meatbyprod.htm
--------------------


Rhonda, I don't believe that the pet food we buy in the US can contain
euthanized dogs and cats and their collars.

Horse ****.


  #18  
Old June 27th 07, 09:26 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cybercat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,212
Default Byproduicts, what are they? was Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"Rhonda" wrote
What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also legally
contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down), road kill, euthanized
cats and dogs, including their collars. These source products are
rendered, the fat is siphoned off to be used as "animal fat," and the
remaining material is extruded to form "meat by-product meal."


I note that although the author puts this section in quotes, she does not
name her source. I looked but can't find a way to email her from the site.
It may be true, but it sure doesn't ring true to me.


  #19  
Old June 27th 07, 10:40 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
cindys
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 592
Default Byproduicts, what are they? was Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast


"cybercat" wrote in message
...

"Rhonda" wrote
What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also legally
contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down), road kill, euthanized
cats and dogs, including their collars. These source products are
rendered, the fat is siphoned off to be used as "animal fat," and the
remaining material is extruded to form "meat by-product meal."


I note that although the author puts this section in quotes, she does not
name her source. I looked but can't find a way to email her from the site.
It may be true, but it sure doesn't ring true to me.

--------
Maybe her source was Ann Martin ?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.


  #20  
Old June 28th 07, 02:48 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Cheryl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,355
Default Byproduicts, what are they? was Report on Alex for Phil -- Pro-Plan versus Fancy Feast

On Wed 27 Jun 2007 04:26:56p, cybercat wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav :

"Rhonda" wrote
What AAFCO doesn't mention is that meat byproducts may also
legally contain: "4D animals (dead, dying, diseased, down),
road kill, euthanized cats and dogs, including their collars.
These source products are rendered, the fat is siphoned off to
be used as "animal fat," and the remaining material is extruded
to form "meat by-product meal."


I note that although the author puts this section in quotes, she
does not name her source. I looked but can't find a way to email
her from the site. It may be true, but it sure doesn't ring true
to me.


Nothing about pet food surprises me anymore. What I go on is how
my cats health is. Are they thriving? Suffering? I'm beginning to
think that bloodwork at every yearly exam has to be done. We need
baselines of their health.

--
Cheryl


 




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