declawing

Brandy Alexandre wrote:
Relish wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:


I have over and over. Simply the fact that you're irrational is
why you don't remember and it has never sunk in.


Cop out.



Says you, but it's still the truth.


Yup, "says me." Now go inside and have your milk and cookies.

Brandy Alexandre wrote:
Relish wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:


I have over and over. Simply the fact that you're irrational is
why you don't remember and it has never sunk in.


Cop out.



Says you, but it's still the truth.


Yup, "says me." Now go inside and have your milk and cookies.

Actually, no. Sewing up a cat's anus would kill it. Declawing, if
done right, isn't fatal.

True it would kill it, but this is not the point. Altering animals for
conveniance isnt right.

Mike

Actually, no. Sewing up a cat's anus would kill it. Declawing, if
done right, isn't fatal.

True it would kill it, but this is not the point. Altering animals for
conveniance isnt right.

Mike

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "bewtifulfreak"
wrote:

Just a note: fingernails and claws are *not* the same. Our nails are
actually hardened (keratinized) skin, and do not grow out of a bone.
Removing a fingernail does not require amputation of any bones.

A claw is an integral part of the distal phalanx (the third, outermost
bone of the finger), and grows directly out of it.

Thank you for this detailed explaination.


Thus, declawing
requires amputation of the distal phalanx. The problem with partial
amputation (yes, sawing through rather than disjointing) is that claw
regrowth can happen - almost always in misshapen form.

You mean with the laser declawing? This sounds at *least* as bad as having
the toe taken completely off!

Again, thank you for broadening my declawing knowledge. The more I hear,
the more I know it's just something I could never consider. I still feel
bad for declawing one of our kitties way back when before I realized the
reality of the procedure, and we would never have considered it then, except
that we were told we couldn't have her in the apartment we wanted to rent
unless we did it. Knowing then what I know now, I would have given up the
nice apartment and found another.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

"Arjun Ray" wrote in message
...
In , "bewtifulfreak"
wrote:

Just a note: fingernails and claws are *not* the same. Our nails are
actually hardened (keratinized) skin, and do not grow out of a bone.
Removing a fingernail does not require amputation of any bones.

A claw is an integral part of the distal phalanx (the third, outermost
bone of the finger), and grows directly out of it.

Thank you for this detailed explaination.


Thus, declawing
requires amputation of the distal phalanx. The problem with partial
amputation (yes, sawing through rather than disjointing) is that claw
regrowth can happen - almost always in misshapen form.

You mean with the laser declawing? This sounds at *least* as bad as having
the toe taken completely off!

Again, thank you for broadening my declawing knowledge. The more I hear,
the more I know it's just something I could never consider. I still feel
bad for declawing one of our kitties way back when before I realized the
reality of the procedure, and we would never have considered it then, except
that we were told we couldn't have her in the apartment we wanted to rent
unless we did it. Knowing then what I know now, I would have given up the
nice apartment and found another.

Ann

--

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/bewtifulfreak

in article , Mike at
wrote on 8/11/03 6:03 AM:

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: (---MIKE---)

Lauren, I am just a "collector"! I also keep any whiskers I find in a
different jar. During the summer, I work at a water park. I go in
early and collect the coins (and occasional bills) I find in the various
pools. Looking for claws and whiskers keeps me in practice!.


ROFL!! Nothing like practice makes perfect, eh Mike?
I heard from somewhere that collecting whiskers brings good luck. Maybe
I
should start collecting them too

I wonder if you added colored sand to the jar of claw pieces what it would
look
like. I bet it would look neat and a real work of art.

This thread is getting so big I don't really know where to respond!

I do try and see the argument from all sides before I make up my mind. I'm
deeply against de-clawing cats, but if being declawed gives it a home and
saves it from being put down from an over-crowded shelter, I guess its a
necessary loss (even though it is only necessary through the ignorance of
the new owner). One could then argue the cat is better off being dead, but I
guess this is a personal preference that not everyone would agree on. I
personally would rather live life without the tips of my fingers than have
no life at all.


Mike
(Different Mike to the thread starter)


The problem is that it does NOT save them from the shelter. Look at this
study (which does show some dichotomy and admits it is difficult to factor,
but you can also call up your local shelter and ask about declawed cats.
They are usually available).

Patronek et al., 1996

476

Behavior problems, risk of relinquishment

Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a random digit
dial survey of cat owners. Prevalence of declawing was 45%(476/1056) in the
owned cat population. In the univariate analysis, declawed cats were at
decreased risk of relinquishment compared to non-declawed cats (OR=0.63; 95%
CI 0.45-0.87). After adjustment in a multivariate model, declawed cats were
at an increased risk of relinquishment (OR=1.89;1.00-3.58); this reversal
made the effect of declawing difficult to interpret. Among 218 cats
relinquished to a shelter, more (44/84; 52.4%) declawed cats than
non-declawed cats (39/134; 29.1%) were reported by owners to have
inappropriate elimination (p=0.022).

in article , Mike at
wrote on 8/11/03 6:03 AM:

"PawsForThought" wrote in message
...
From: (---MIKE---)

Lauren, I am just a "collector"! I also keep any whiskers I find in a
different jar. During the summer, I work at a water park. I go in
early and collect the coins (and occasional bills) I find in the various
pools. Looking for claws and whiskers keeps me in practice!.


ROFL!! Nothing like practice makes perfect, eh Mike?
I heard from somewhere that collecting whiskers brings good luck. Maybe
I
should start collecting them too

I wonder if you added colored sand to the jar of claw pieces what it would
look
like. I bet it would look neat and a real work of art.

This thread is getting so big I don't really know where to respond!

I do try and see the argument from all sides before I make up my mind. I'm
deeply against de-clawing cats, but if being declawed gives it a home and
saves it from being put down from an over-crowded shelter, I guess its a
necessary loss (even though it is only necessary through the ignorance of
the new owner). One could then argue the cat is better off being dead, but I
guess this is a personal preference that not everyone would agree on. I
personally would rather live life without the tips of my fingers than have
no life at all.


Mike
(Different Mike to the thread starter)


The problem is that it does NOT save them from the shelter. Look at this
study (which does show some dichotomy and admits it is difficult to factor,
but you can also call up your local shelter and ask about declawed cats.
They are usually available).

Patronek et al., 1996

476

Behavior problems, risk of relinquishment

Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a random digit
dial survey of cat owners. Prevalence of declawing was 45%(476/1056) in the
owned cat population. In the univariate analysis, declawed cats were at
decreased risk of relinquishment compared to non-declawed cats (OR=0.63; 95%
CI 0.45-0.87). After adjustment in a multivariate model, declawed cats were
at an increased risk of relinquishment (OR=1.89;1.00-3.58); this reversal
made the effect of declawing difficult to interpret. Among 218 cats
relinquished to a shelter, more (44/84; 52.4%) declawed cats than
non-declawed cats (39/134; 29.1%) were reported by owners to have
inappropriate elimination (p=0.022).

In , "Mike"
wrote:

| I'm asking if its more humane to kill a cat than to give it to owners
| who would look after it but get it declawed first.

There's no answer for this question because, as posed, it's actually not
well formed. Specifically, why is death the alternative?

If we explain that part by appealing to the overpopulation problem (i.e.
general lack of enough homes), then we need to see these alternatives in
proper context. We don't go around offing cats at random. The cats put
to sleep are typically those *surrendered* to animal control facilities.

Thus, the argument behind your question is that declawing vouchsafes a
home for the cat.

But this is very likely untrue. Declawed cats are a sizeable proportion
of the intake at kill shelters. Call one up and, if they'll give you
any numbers at all (many won't - simply because euthanizing healthy
animals is very much on the embarrassing underbelly of public policy),
it'll be like 10-20% or more.

Then, look at all the vets falling over themsleves to deny that they
declaw routinely, that it's a marginal or insignificant part of their
practice, it's done only as a last resort, etc. etc. etc. etc.

If they're right, then the proportion of declawed cats among all homed
cats should be small - and at any rate substantially less than the
proportions seen in kill shelters.

The statistical conclusion is obvious. (Or, vets as a whole are lying.)

In , "Mike"
wrote:

| I'm asking if its more humane to kill a cat than to give it to owners
| who would look after it but get it declawed first.

There's no answer for this question because, as posed, it's actually not
well formed. Specifically, why is death the alternative?

If we explain that part by appealing to the overpopulation problem (i.e.
general lack of enough homes), then we need to see these alternatives in
proper context. We don't go around offing cats at random. The cats put
to sleep are typically those *surrendered* to animal control facilities.

Thus, the argument behind your question is that declawing vouchsafes a
home for the cat.

But this is very likely untrue. Declawed cats are a sizeable proportion
of the intake at kill shelters. Call one up and, if they'll give you
any numbers at all (many won't - simply because euthanizing healthy
animals is very much on the embarrassing underbelly of public policy),
it'll be like 10-20% or more.

Then, look at all the vets falling over themsleves to deny that they
declaw routinely, that it's a marginal or insignificant part of their
practice, it's done only as a last resort, etc. etc. etc. etc.

If they're right, then the proportion of declawed cats among all homed
cats should be small - and at any rate substantially less than the
proportions seen in kill shelters.

The statistical conclusion is obvious. (Or, vets as a whole are lying.)